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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Community input too much?
Everywhere you look, read or watch in video interviews, one hears how important the community impact will be from an "input" perspective. The question and statement I have, and please stay open minded here, is what about the majority that choose to lurk or not have input. Usually in any population that makes the majority of the populous. Whether it be a democracy vote or survey, turnout is minimal.
The vocal few are more than capable of magnifying the wrong desires of a total populous. This is where, in my humble opinion, the game should follow its design scruples and perhaps utilize machine learning to drive input but not pander to the vocal few. Just a topic for discussion before being flamed by the vocal few :)
The vocal few are more than capable of magnifying the wrong desires of a total populous. This is where, in my humble opinion, the game should follow its design scruples and perhaps utilize machine learning to drive input but not pander to the vocal few. Just a topic for discussion before being flamed by the vocal few :)
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On the other hand though, community involvement and feedback is always an important part, and I like to trust that developers have a means to understand what feedback represents their players and what represents the whiners and criers.
But I agree with you though. The vocal few have an overwhelming power to make something the majority of the population does not care about into the biggest deal in the world. (See: every MMO controversy ever).
We'll see in time how Intrepid does with these things. :) I'm always optimistic.
One thing that concerns me is I hear a lot of Steven saying "yes" too much. I pray they can deliver and I laid out some good coin for the KS because he is on point with one thing, we need the genre to be fixed. Lets hope Brook's Law doesnt kill the projects timelines. :)
One thing that concerns me is I hear a lot of Steven saying “yes” too much. I pray they can deliver and I laid out some good coin for the KS because he is on point with one thing, we need the genre to be fixed. Lets hope Brook’s Law doesnt kill the projects timelines. <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f642.svg" />
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I hear you, MalevolentSage. I've been trying to stay on top of watching all the podcasts, and you tube interviews. The latest one being the one he did with The Lazy Peon, I think. And, I agree that, sometimes, Steven does say yes to a lot of the questions he's asked. But, to be fair, he's had his fair share of no's as well.
In one podcast, when asked if players who just wanted to to PvP would be able to log on, do nothing but PvP content for however long they played, then log, he said "no". He said that the way the game works is PvE fuels the PvP, and that while there would be substantial PvP elements in the game, it wouldn't be to the exclusion of PvE.
When asked would there be fast travel, for convenience, he said emphatically "no".
Granted, some of these questions are questions we've heard over and over (at least those who closely follow these Q&A sessions). And, while the questions and answers are fairly generic, I can understand that the game is in pre alpha, so alot of what he wants to do is still conceptions. And, the stuff he does have, he doesn't want to give it all away. Gotta keep the masses in suspense, so to speak.
Like you, I hope he stays connected to the community, but is able to wisely filter those things that are good for his vision of AoC.
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And that is exactly what I want to happen. I backed the KS for intrepid studios goal, and some input could help the goal while other input could also end up as a negative, so as long as we can figure out what's negative and stay away from it we should be good
Based on my observations of the community, the few riots (and the subsequent dev talks in response to them), I'd say the developers have shown flexibility but also confidence in different aspects of design.
I think that community input will become more/most important during the testing phase, as until that happens we're basically vocalizing opinions against "ideas" (as you've described) and that's much more qualitative.
I would have to say that if something does not sit well for you and it is not expressed, the devs are not mind-readers to guess...eventually, people will have to voice an opinion and it would be better if it is sooner rather than later, because it may not be fixable later down the road.
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There's is a huge difference in voicing your feedback and just outright crying about something you feel is should go or be your way. I'm really hoping that with Stevens gaming background he understands this and doesn't fall into the mentality of listening to the loud, outspoke, entitled people who think that because they shout loudly that they are right or speak for the majority. Some people actually just want to sit back and enjoy the game,so they don't see the point in going on the forums to post.
I for one am tired of the entitlement that comes with gamers now. Not everyone should have everything in a game unless you work for it or put effort into it. I love the idea of only a limited group of players having access to flying mounts with a mixture of some players getting a taste of it for a short period of time.
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Agreed, Steven has a very clear vision of what he and his team are going to do. A couple of vocal posters or even 100s saying they are going to rage quit if they cant insta travel, greif non combatants without penelty and buy the best weapon in the world for £20, is not going to make any diference to Steven and his team realizing their and most of our assperations for this game.
However good ideas and tweeks that add to the sum of that asperation I expect will be gratfully received.
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I dont have a problem agreeing with this an no one suggested they were mind readers, however, it also doesn't mean they should implement your ideas either because they may just be horrible for the community because you decided you wanted to make a fool out of yourself and open your mouth. ;)
I think a lot of the time developers are scared to make players do certain tasks or do objectives in a certain way. <em>Objectives that solve the dynamic problems of a game. </em>
I agree devs shouldn't listen too much to the vocal few but they should listen to the one or many.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/community-input-too-much/#post-19635" rel="nofollow">Canterbury wrote:</a></div>
I would say Steven has a pretty strong idea about what he wants to do. Of course they say, “Give us your opinion…” and variations on that theme but, at the end of the day, unless someone comes up with something stunning, I think Steven knows where he’s driving this bus.
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Agreed, Steven has a very clear vision of what he and his team are going to do. A couple of vocal posters or even 100s saying they are going to rage quit if they cant insta travel, greif non combatants without penelty and buy the best weapon in the world for £20, is not going to make any diference to Steven and his team realizing their and most of our assperations for this game.
However good ideas and tweeks that add to the sum of that asperation I expect will be gratfully received.
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This is pretty much my take on things.
The community, in a community driven game, is a valuable source of unique ideas.
Often ideas that would never come to fruition otherwise.
Of course there are bad ideas and good ideas.
There are also the situations where what everyone thinks are good ideas (even the devs) turn out to be epically bad.
So I see the forums as a think tank for floating concepts that may or may not bubble up into the game.
Intrepid will be the filter that sorts the wheat from the chaff at the end of the day.
I think they are at least 90% on track.... but thats a personal perspective...as is everyones.
So I will sit back, cut them some slack, let them make the decisions.
But I would also expect them to abandon failed ideas and look for alternatives.
Which is where the forum comes in.
[With the emphasis being on failed ideas. Which can not be known without implementation and testing. Simulation is not Emulation]
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While I agree that a minority of players are more vocal and active thus they have opinions to share that carry more weight.
There really is nothing you can do about that except encourage others to speak up who are quite, bit by bit.
If people do not let their opinions be heard, majority democratic creep can and will happen. Especially if the games numbers dwindle.
There is no other way to tally or interpret non-existent data except for a lack there of it.
All you can do is hope and place your trust in the values of Intrepid Studios.
My regards,
uchigatanaNZ
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/community-input-too-much/#post-19615" rel="nofollow">MalevolentSage wrote:</a></div>
The vocal few <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f642.svg" />
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While I agree that a minority of players are more vocal and active thus they have opinions to share that carry more weight.
There really is nothing you can do about that except encourage others to speak up who are quite, bit by bit.
If people do not let their opinions be heard, majority democratic creep can and will happen. Especially if the games numbers dwindle.
There is no other way to tally or interpret non-existent data except for a lack there of it.
All you can do is hope and place your trust in the values of Intrepid Studios.
My regards,
uchigatanaNZ
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Agreed on trusting Intrepid. There are all the demographics encompassed in MMORPG's. The silent, the murderous (PvP and griefers), the kind and the kind that attempt to speak for everyone. It was a constructive topic, I cannot wait to get cranking in AoC.
I think it's easy sometimes (for many) to forget that the people with the real experience here are the development team, they've been there, tried different set ups in mmos, they will already be able to say whether something is going to work, fail, or be worth a punt.
I don't worry too much about the project being steered off course by too many voices attempting to influence the outcome, I get the feeling that these guys are more than aware of what they're doing.
All together now... AoC we trust in thee.
I, for example, am usually quiet and supportive of anything that is constructive, but at the mention of Bots, RMT, or RNG, I become an aggressive hater.
Also, you will notice that people will ask for certain mechanics relentlessly, even in spite of everyone else telling them it'll ruin the otherwise great game, like those random people who want it f2p, people who are drunk on graphics alone, knowing that if they rush the devs now they might screw up the game.
in the end, those said few who the devs actually listen to, act kind of like bullshit filters, letting only the positive comments and constructive criticism reach the devs, who already have their hands full.