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I think I have a solution to the pvp/pve ganking, pking etc arguments
ArchivedUser
Guest
Hi all,
I'll say it now, I NEVER go on forums and the like (so let me know if I'm doing this wrong) but I really like AoC and I want it to do well. However, it worries me that I keep seeing pvers worried all over the internet about getting pked or harassed. I get it, I personally hardly ever pvp in video games but I do understand the draw. And on the other side of the spectrum, I'm seeing pvpers worried that they'll essentially have to pve or the game will treat them like second class citizens. So I have some ideas that I picked up from a (honestly pretty terrible) mmo that died back in 2014 that I think could really balance out these problems. The pvers can rest a little easier without needing a pve only server and the pvpers can maim and murder to their little hearts content.
Crime and corruption-
Players who commit minor crimes (listed below) will be shown in yellow. A yellow stain will also appear beside
your name. Yellow status marks you as a criminal, and makes you able to be attacked by other players with no consequence. You will remain yellow for 6 hours if you commit (at max) 4 minor offenses with each offense adding 6 hours (or whatever is seen as reasonable) to your timer (the timer does not reset more time is added). If the timer empties before another minor act is committed than there's no worry of further punishment.
If a player commits 5 or more minor criminal acts, or 1 major offense (listed below) their whole body will begin to flash red, and the yellow stain beside their name will turn red as well. The red stain indicates the player has committed enough crimes for their status to last 72 hours.
If a player continues committing crimes past this point, (4 days of continuous criminal status) a skull icon will appear next to their name.
In addition any player with a bounty of 5+ will be purple and special circumstances (listed below) will be in place for purple characters.
When players become heavy criminals/corrupted (red) the guards in higher level nodes will attack them.
Major Offenses (immediate red state)-
Killing non-criminal players.
Repeated minor offenses.
Heal a party member who is a Criminal for full HP
Killing NPC's
Minor offenses (Yellow state)-
Striking an NPC in town with a drawn weapon (you are warned when you unsheathe in town)
Assisting criminals (Healing them partially or giving them things)
Stealing (however that system works in this game)
Striking non-criminal players
Bountied (Purple state)-
Pissing off enough people
Any version of criminal status will be seen as a buff (Or debuff depending on your stance) to the player and their timer can be seen by simply scrolling over it same as any other buff.
Attack modes or passive modes- this is simply a button you can press for your character that says you're attacks can hit anyone. The only reason I say this needs to be added is if it's free game there could be a lot of accidental criminal acts with AOE attacks and the like.
If a player enters attack mode they will have a sword next to their name (and next to any other symbols or titles they have equipped) I'm not a fan of having to click a button to enter pvp but I don't see any other way (in any sandbox situation like this) to make sure people don't accidentally kill each other because they didn't notice someone in their peripheral when they cast a flame pillar spell.
Jail and Criminal nodes-
I believe a jail and lawless land mechanic would be great ways keep gank fests and roaming squads of pkers from cropping up.
Simply put in a regular node red players are attacked on sight by essentially any npc with a weapon (that doesn't include players as well since attacking corrupted has no ((inherent)) consequence). Killed criminals/purple bounties are sent to jail where they must either pay a fine (scales with level) or attempt a jailbreak.
Either option has a 15 minute timer so only 1 person at a time or parties can leave at once.
Parties must pay their fines in one lump sum, but good will could be obtained if one person wants to front everyone else's bill.
A jailbreak will be a level/group scaling raid/dungeon that must be completed before the player(s) can escape free of charge. They'll fight their way through jailers, giant rats, executioners, and wardens (the whole shabang) and, as a way to show corrupted that there's no hard feelings, there will be nice rewards that can only be obtained by completing jailbreaks.
Also in the jail will be ways to LOSE goodwill. Outside the jail will be a guard to bribe for a lvl scalingly high amount of money where you could reset the wait timers on EVERYONE still in the cell. The victims will be aware and can totally target whoever did that.
Note that the timer is still the end-all-be-all even if you paid your bounty or got out of jail you're still corrupted for however long oyu have be it 7 hours or 700 hours.
So, if the guards will kill corrupted on sight where can they go? A. Their own homes that they've built privately or B. Nodes specifically made for corrupted.
If a corrupted (especially purple players) have a home in a pure/regular node that will just be a great kill-zone for vengeance seeking or bounty hunting players, as they could just camp and wait for the player to try to enter or eventually exit their home.
Any player is 100% safe inside their home (I say this is fine but I could see sieges and break-ins also being a good route to take)
Corrupted Nodes will essentially be the same thing as a regular node except there is NO penalty for pvp even if you're not a criminal. These will be lawless lands where anyone can kill or steal from anyone with no (inherent) consequence. Now just because the game let you get away with whatever you did in the lawless node doesn't mean you're off the hook.
Bounty Hunters and Assassins-
When a criminal kills or steals from another player, their name appears on the victim's Blacklist. The Blacklist allows the victim to assign bounties to criminals who've done them wrong. Be warned; though stealing from a criminal in a pure node is only a minor offense, but if you continue to do so more than 4 times consecutively, you yourself will become red status and appear on that criminal's Blacklist.
Criminals that murder and steal from other criminals appear on those criminals' Blacklists, even though technically those offenses were not crimes.
The Blacklist displays the offender's online and offline status, their current location (area name, and server), their current bounty, and the crime they committed upon the viewer. This tool is important when attempting to corner a tricky bounty.
You can place a Bounty on any player in your blacklist that is currently in criminal status. You may not place bounties on players that are currently in prison.
A bounty can be placed on any player at any time ( to stop resource hogging) and any player cannot go after their own bounty.
Bounties will have two level specific minimums to be placed (you can always go over depending on how much you hate someone).
Purple players (players with 5 or more bounties) will be immediately sent to prison if a player or guard kills them (again to cut down on griefing).
Once a player is freed from prison, another player may not place a bounty on their head for a certain period of time.
Bounty hunters will be pure players with significantly higher leveled minimum prices to hire (so you can't have a friend kill another player risk free to troll them)
Assassins will be corrupted players who are cheaper to higher but come at the risk of possibly turning on you after or even before they're paid (this could be the case if they're involved to settle a dispute)
Assassins and bounty hunters will be given the names of the bounty player to assist in the bounties capture.
Bounties and targets will be taken just likes quests from a board and can be abandoned and immediately reposted as necessary. Diminishing rewards will be given for parties who go after bounties. As the gold (and exp if they do it that way) will be divided equally amongst the assassins/hunters.
Note what is about to be listed here is experimental so this should be read with a very critical eye-
If a thievery/break-in mechanic is created Assassins can make up for getting less money than bounty hunters by being able to steal from their targets.
Inversely Bounty Hunters can take one of half or lesser value than their pay from their target or several items that equate to that (So resource hogs will have even less incentive to grief).
Imprisoned players may not be deleted, and no other players on the same account as an imprisoned player may be used until the bounty is paid in full.
Lawless nodes will have a different aesthetic than regular nodes and will act along with any bonuses the game gives (i.e. naval gameplay and trader gameplay). Pirate or slums aesthetics will still have trade routes and the like run by npcs that pure characters still can't kill (if you're trading outside of the zone) so there's no worry of double the people stealing your hard earned resources.
On maps zones will be marked as dangerous or something similar and a notification will come on screen when someone enters dangerous waters or a corrupted node.
Conclusion-
I'm aware that the current system is still under development but I just wanted to get an idea out there that (to me atleast) seems very palatable to anyone who sees it. I am not coming at this proposed system as a pvper or a pver I am just someone who wants to support this game and get it the biggest player base it can by having systems in place that cater to as many play styles a possible. Please feel free to scrutinize my proposition. And if people like it enough and we polish it enough, we could maybe get this to Steven's attention and maybe we could end some of the contention here on the forums and on the web could die down.
This could lead to a lot of awesome, thematic, player generated, gameplay mechanics. Imagine it, PK and PKK Guilds. Raids on pure/corrupted Nodes. Criminal and justice organizations that shift the laws and set ground rules for situations and engagements. The possibilities are beyond me right now even as I type this!
I know we don't know enough about the current system to judge it but let me know how you feel about this system in comparison. This way we have the same focus on pve and cooperative play while still allowing our murderous brothers and sisters to have their fun.
I'll say it now, I NEVER go on forums and the like (so let me know if I'm doing this wrong) but I really like AoC and I want it to do well. However, it worries me that I keep seeing pvers worried all over the internet about getting pked or harassed. I get it, I personally hardly ever pvp in video games but I do understand the draw. And on the other side of the spectrum, I'm seeing pvpers worried that they'll essentially have to pve or the game will treat them like second class citizens. So I have some ideas that I picked up from a (honestly pretty terrible) mmo that died back in 2014 that I think could really balance out these problems. The pvers can rest a little easier without needing a pve only server and the pvpers can maim and murder to their little hearts content.
Crime and corruption-
Players who commit minor crimes (listed below) will be shown in yellow. A yellow stain will also appear beside
your name. Yellow status marks you as a criminal, and makes you able to be attacked by other players with no consequence. You will remain yellow for 6 hours if you commit (at max) 4 minor offenses with each offense adding 6 hours (or whatever is seen as reasonable) to your timer (the timer does not reset more time is added). If the timer empties before another minor act is committed than there's no worry of further punishment.
If a player commits 5 or more minor criminal acts, or 1 major offense (listed below) their whole body will begin to flash red, and the yellow stain beside their name will turn red as well. The red stain indicates the player has committed enough crimes for their status to last 72 hours.
If a player continues committing crimes past this point, (4 days of continuous criminal status) a skull icon will appear next to their name.
In addition any player with a bounty of 5+ will be purple and special circumstances (listed below) will be in place for purple characters.
When players become heavy criminals/corrupted (red) the guards in higher level nodes will attack them.
Major Offenses (immediate red state)-
Killing non-criminal players.
Repeated minor offenses.
Heal a party member who is a Criminal for full HP
Killing NPC's
Minor offenses (Yellow state)-
Striking an NPC in town with a drawn weapon (you are warned when you unsheathe in town)
Assisting criminals (Healing them partially or giving them things)
Stealing (however that system works in this game)
Striking non-criminal players
Bountied (Purple state)-
Pissing off enough people
Any version of criminal status will be seen as a buff (Or debuff depending on your stance) to the player and their timer can be seen by simply scrolling over it same as any other buff.
Attack modes or passive modes- this is simply a button you can press for your character that says you're attacks can hit anyone. The only reason I say this needs to be added is if it's free game there could be a lot of accidental criminal acts with AOE attacks and the like.
If a player enters attack mode they will have a sword next to their name (and next to any other symbols or titles they have equipped) I'm not a fan of having to click a button to enter pvp but I don't see any other way (in any sandbox situation like this) to make sure people don't accidentally kill each other because they didn't notice someone in their peripheral when they cast a flame pillar spell.
Jail and Criminal nodes-
I believe a jail and lawless land mechanic would be great ways keep gank fests and roaming squads of pkers from cropping up.
Simply put in a regular node red players are attacked on sight by essentially any npc with a weapon (that doesn't include players as well since attacking corrupted has no ((inherent)) consequence). Killed criminals/purple bounties are sent to jail where they must either pay a fine (scales with level) or attempt a jailbreak.
Either option has a 15 minute timer so only 1 person at a time or parties can leave at once.
Parties must pay their fines in one lump sum, but good will could be obtained if one person wants to front everyone else's bill.
A jailbreak will be a level/group scaling raid/dungeon that must be completed before the player(s) can escape free of charge. They'll fight their way through jailers, giant rats, executioners, and wardens (the whole shabang) and, as a way to show corrupted that there's no hard feelings, there will be nice rewards that can only be obtained by completing jailbreaks.
Also in the jail will be ways to LOSE goodwill. Outside the jail will be a guard to bribe for a lvl scalingly high amount of money where you could reset the wait timers on EVERYONE still in the cell. The victims will be aware and can totally target whoever did that.
Note that the timer is still the end-all-be-all even if you paid your bounty or got out of jail you're still corrupted for however long oyu have be it 7 hours or 700 hours.
So, if the guards will kill corrupted on sight where can they go? A. Their own homes that they've built privately or B. Nodes specifically made for corrupted.
If a corrupted (especially purple players) have a home in a pure/regular node that will just be a great kill-zone for vengeance seeking or bounty hunting players, as they could just camp and wait for the player to try to enter or eventually exit their home.
Any player is 100% safe inside their home (I say this is fine but I could see sieges and break-ins also being a good route to take)
Corrupted Nodes will essentially be the same thing as a regular node except there is NO penalty for pvp even if you're not a criminal. These will be lawless lands where anyone can kill or steal from anyone with no (inherent) consequence. Now just because the game let you get away with whatever you did in the lawless node doesn't mean you're off the hook.
Bounty Hunters and Assassins-
When a criminal kills or steals from another player, their name appears on the victim's Blacklist. The Blacklist allows the victim to assign bounties to criminals who've done them wrong. Be warned; though stealing from a criminal in a pure node is only a minor offense, but if you continue to do so more than 4 times consecutively, you yourself will become red status and appear on that criminal's Blacklist.
Criminals that murder and steal from other criminals appear on those criminals' Blacklists, even though technically those offenses were not crimes.
The Blacklist displays the offender's online and offline status, their current location (area name, and server), their current bounty, and the crime they committed upon the viewer. This tool is important when attempting to corner a tricky bounty.
You can place a Bounty on any player in your blacklist that is currently in criminal status. You may not place bounties on players that are currently in prison.
A bounty can be placed on any player at any time ( to stop resource hogging) and any player cannot go after their own bounty.
Bounties will have two level specific minimums to be placed (you can always go over depending on how much you hate someone).
Purple players (players with 5 or more bounties) will be immediately sent to prison if a player or guard kills them (again to cut down on griefing).
Once a player is freed from prison, another player may not place a bounty on their head for a certain period of time.
Bounty hunters will be pure players with significantly higher leveled minimum prices to hire (so you can't have a friend kill another player risk free to troll them)
Assassins will be corrupted players who are cheaper to higher but come at the risk of possibly turning on you after or even before they're paid (this could be the case if they're involved to settle a dispute)
Assassins and bounty hunters will be given the names of the bounty player to assist in the bounties capture.
Bounties and targets will be taken just likes quests from a board and can be abandoned and immediately reposted as necessary. Diminishing rewards will be given for parties who go after bounties. As the gold (and exp if they do it that way) will be divided equally amongst the assassins/hunters.
Note what is about to be listed here is experimental so this should be read with a very critical eye-
If a thievery/break-in mechanic is created Assassins can make up for getting less money than bounty hunters by being able to steal from their targets.
Inversely Bounty Hunters can take one of half or lesser value than their pay from their target or several items that equate to that (So resource hogs will have even less incentive to grief).
Imprisoned players may not be deleted, and no other players on the same account as an imprisoned player may be used until the bounty is paid in full.
Lawless nodes will have a different aesthetic than regular nodes and will act along with any bonuses the game gives (i.e. naval gameplay and trader gameplay). Pirate or slums aesthetics will still have trade routes and the like run by npcs that pure characters still can't kill (if you're trading outside of the zone) so there's no worry of double the people stealing your hard earned resources.
On maps zones will be marked as dangerous or something similar and a notification will come on screen when someone enters dangerous waters or a corrupted node.
Conclusion-
I'm aware that the current system is still under development but I just wanted to get an idea out there that (to me atleast) seems very palatable to anyone who sees it. I am not coming at this proposed system as a pvper or a pver I am just someone who wants to support this game and get it the biggest player base it can by having systems in place that cater to as many play styles a possible. Please feel free to scrutinize my proposition. And if people like it enough and we polish it enough, we could maybe get this to Steven's attention and maybe we could end some of the contention here on the forums and on the web could die down.
This could lead to a lot of awesome, thematic, player generated, gameplay mechanics. Imagine it, PK and PKK Guilds. Raids on pure/corrupted Nodes. Criminal and justice organizations that shift the laws and set ground rules for situations and engagements. The possibilities are beyond me right now even as I type this!
I know we don't know enough about the current system to judge it but let me know how you feel about this system in comparison. This way we have the same focus on pve and cooperative play while still allowing our murderous brothers and sisters to have their fun.
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