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Think being Mute/Silent will hurt much?
Oi, folks,
So there are a a few reasons someone may not have/use a microphone.
Being mute/damaged voice,
not wanting people to know gender/age,
having no/broken microphone,
speaking poor (insert language here),
or perhaps something else.
In some games (Destiny 1 comes to mind) you are often left out due to the simple fact of not having a mic. Eventually I have been able to do all the raids and stuff, but the effort put in to finding one was time-consuming. Friends helped a lot by speaking for my skill, but eventually I was driven away simply because it was hard to find end-game groups.
In ESO for the longest time I was left out of Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj (12-man trial) because I was a healer that wouldn't talk. Eventually I did find an elitist guild that, once I proved myself, let me on their daily runs of vMaw.
Don't misunderstand me, as I <strong>do</strong> understand the reasoning behind leaving us out. We're simply not as efficient as we <strong>could be</strong> if we don't talk, no matter how good we are. Having a voice makes things quicker, especially if you're a healer (Which I am. Everywhere.).
I believe AoC is planning on having in-game voice communication, which may or may not be used over Discord/TS/Vent.
I was just wondering what you guys think AoC will be like, pertaining to this subject.
Do you think silent players will be excluded in some content?
What are your opinions of silent players?
Are there any other silent players here? Do you think you will be excluded from some things?
<3
So there are a a few reasons someone may not have/use a microphone.
Being mute/damaged voice,
not wanting people to know gender/age,
having no/broken microphone,
speaking poor (insert language here),
or perhaps something else.
In some games (Destiny 1 comes to mind) you are often left out due to the simple fact of not having a mic. Eventually I have been able to do all the raids and stuff, but the effort put in to finding one was time-consuming. Friends helped a lot by speaking for my skill, but eventually I was driven away simply because it was hard to find end-game groups.
In ESO for the longest time I was left out of Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj (12-man trial) because I was a healer that wouldn't talk. Eventually I did find an elitist guild that, once I proved myself, let me on their daily runs of vMaw.
Don't misunderstand me, as I <strong>do</strong> understand the reasoning behind leaving us out. We're simply not as efficient as we <strong>could be</strong> if we don't talk, no matter how good we are. Having a voice makes things quicker, especially if you're a healer (Which I am. Everywhere.).
I believe AoC is planning on having in-game voice communication, which may or may not be used over Discord/TS/Vent.
I was just wondering what you guys think AoC will be like, pertaining to this subject.
Do you think silent players will be excluded in some content?
What are your opinions of silent players?
Are there any other silent players here? Do you think you will be excluded from some things?
<3
0
Comments
As a raid leader I am fine with silence unless there is an issue. It is expected that minimally if you are in a voice chat that you can listen and follow instructions when needed. If you can do that, then I for one as the raid leader wouldn’t need to hear your voice. I wouldn’t mind hearing it, but it’s your choice to talk. If you are executing your role and listening good leaders can see that, I don’t think you will have an issue.
Now I played ESO since beta and still do (I’m not doing morrowind though). You have to be able to talk in Vet Maw, it’s no cake walk and as a healer I’d expect your input when we were unsuccessful. I’ve done that run a few times, it’s a major pain in the ass.
But to the heart of the question, would you or should you be excluded? The honest answer is yes you will be excluded from groups and if this game evolves to serious dungeon grinds (like trial groups in ESO) you likely should be as the healer as it’s an extremely important role. That’s the “would” answer, “should” you be excluded? HELL NO. You should not only be included but encouraged and supported wholely by whatever guild is lucky enough to get you as a healer.
Good leaders find a way to get the most out of their raid groups, and that’s a great challenge exclusive to the raid leader. The best ones welcome that.
Good luck.
As a raid leader I am fine with silence unless there is an issue. It is expected that minimally if you are in a voice chat that you can listen and follow instructions when needed. If you can do that, then I for one as the raid leader wouldn’t need to hear your voice. I wouldn’t mind hearing it, but it’s your choice to talk. If you are executing your role and listening good leaders can see that, I don’t think you will have an issue.
Now I played ESO since beta and still do (I’m not doing morrowind though). You have to be able to talk in Vet Maw, it’s no cake walk and as a healer I’d expect your input when we were unsuccessful. I’ve done that run a few times, it’s a major pain in the ass.
But to the heart of the question, would you or should you be excluded? The honest answer is yes you will be excluded from groups and if this game evolves to serious dungeon grinds (like trial groups in ESO) you likely should be as the healer as it’s an extremely important role. That’s the “would” answer, “should” you be excluded? HELL NO. You should not only be included but encouraged and supported wholely by whatever guild is lucky enough to get you as a healer.
Good leaders find a way to get the most out of their raid groups, and that’s a great challenge exclusive to the raid leader. The best ones welcome that.
Good luck..
So there are a a few reasons someone may not have/use a microphone.
Being mute/damaged voice,
not wanting people to know gender/age,
having no/broken microphone,
speaking poor (insert language here),
or perhaps something else.
In some games (Destiny 1 comes to mind) you are often left out due to the simple fact of not having a mic. Eventually I have been able to do all the raids and stuff, but the effort put in to finding one was time-consuming. Friends helped a lot by speaking for my skill, but eventually I was driven away simply because it was hard to find end-game groups.
In ESO for the longest time I was left out of Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj (12-man trial) because I was a healer that wouldn’t talk. Eventually I did find an elitist guild that, once I proved myself, let me on their daily runs of vMaw.
Don’t misunderstand me, as I <strong>do</strong> understand the reasoning behind leaving us out. We’re simply not as efficient as we <strong>could be</strong> if we don’t talk, no matter how good we are. Having a voice makes things quicker, especially if you’re a healer (Which I am. Everywhere.).
I believe AoC is planning on having in-game voice communication, which may or may not be used over Discord/TS/Vent.
I was just wondering what you guys think AoC will be like, pertaining to this subject.
Do you think silent players will be excluded in some content?
What are your opinions of silent players?
Are there any other silent players here? Do you think you will be excluded from some things?
<3
[/quote]
I think it’s going to depend on the class you play and what you are doing within a group. As an example, a raiding guild, even pugs honestly can’t really have a silent tank. She has to be able to communicate, same with a healer but to a lesser degree. As I have progressed through my MMO lives I’ve led groups and been silent it’s really run the gambit.
As a raid leader I am fine with silence unless there is an issue. It is expected that minimally if you are in a voice chat that you can listen and follow instructions when needed. If you can do that, then I for one as the raid leader wouldn’t need to hear your voice. I wouldn’t mind hearing it, but it’s your choice to talk. If you are executing your role and listening good leaders can see that, I don’t think you will have an issue.
Now I played ESO since beta and still do (I’m not doing morrowind though). You have to be able to talk in Vet Maw, it’s no cake walk and as a healer I’d expect your input when we were unsuccessful. I’ve done that run a few times, it’s a major pain in the ass.
But to the heart of the question, would you or should you be excluded? The honest answer is yes you will be excluded from groups and if this game evolves to serious dungeon grinds (like trial groups in ESO) you likely should be as the healer as it’s an extremely important role. That’s the “would” answer, “should” you be excluded? HELL NO. You should not only be included but encouraged and supported wholely by whatever guild is lucky enough to get you as a healer.
Good leaders find a way to get the most out of their raid groups, and that’s a great challenge exclusive to the raid leader. The best ones welcome that.
Good luck.
I would be super happy to give my input bunches of times, even during combat. All my input would simply be in the form of text chat. I'm hopeful AoC will have a nice text chat system.
[quote quote=20768]But to the heart of the question, would you or should you be excluded? The honest answer is yes you will be excluded from groups and if this game evolves to serious dungeon grinds (like trial groups in ESO) you likely should be as the healer as it’s an extremely important role.[/quote]
This is the point where I would beg for a chance to prove myself, even without a mic. I've had to do the same in Destiny, and ESO.
In the end, I've out-done almost every healer I've met.
Vet Maelstrom Arena I do in 40-50 minutes, usually 3 deaths at max (I don't use power-ups is why). And vMaw I can heal so well that I was invited to the guilds Core group, which I declined due to real life schedules changing too often (farm work and school). They still let me in any impromptu vMaws.
If I need to communicate, which I often do, I simply type. Of course, not too many people read chat while in combat as its hard for them to multi-task when things get busy.
[quote quote=20768]“should” you be excluded? HELL NO. You should not only be included but encouraged and supported wholely by whatever guild is lucky enough to get you as a healer.[/quote]
I don't know you, you don't know me. But this is pretty much the nicest thing someone has ever said to me on any forum, even if it is just a principle that you think guilds should follow. You made me smile and feel special, so thanks <3
In the end I supposed I'd encourage giving most people a chance, in general. In my last year of gaming, I only get the boot for two things: needing to be 18+, and refusing to use a mic.
Again, thanks for the amazing words!
<3
I think being mute/silent can be fine. We usually pay attention to in-game guild text chat as well.
Again, thanks for the amazing words!
[/quote]
Rather than address specifics let me address the whole:
Typing in chat can work, at points where there is break. During the actual action phases it’s not ideal, it can actually be a distraction (I am being honest). I certainly wouldn’t take issue with it, but it wouldn’t be of value DURING. So after we wrap and we are in chat discussing, typing is fine. At the heart of communication is the premise that you are able to clearly convey what you mean.
On Vet Maw, hey that’s cool and it speaks to the point I made, as a raid leader If you are doing your job, I don’t need to hear from you unless you see something I am not seeing and what you see will help the raid and induce a positive outcome.
On saying nice things. Generally I am a nice person. I find the anonymity of the web allows for extreme liberties in treating people like crap. I choose to try and treat people well until they give me a reason not too, then I am brutal. If what I said to you made you smile that’s cool, I would say it’s likely in your gaming travels you haven’t crossed paths with the right people.
Last thing on that, it’s likely I’ve been gaming longer than you have been alive. I have kids in high school. Generally (emphasis generally) the older you become the wiser you are. Wisdom for me is the ability to reflect on the past and disseminate what was good and bad and try to apply it to the present to derive a better outcome in the future. It’s been my experience that treating people with respect and kindness, regardless of race, gender and age usually gets you great results.
Good Luck
Typing in chat can work, at points where there is break. During the actual action phases it’s not ideal, it can actually be a distraction (I am being honest). I certainly wouldn’t take issue with it, but it wouldn’t be of value DURING. So after we wrap and we are in chat discussing, typing is fine. At the heart of communication is the premise that you are able to clearly convey what you mean.
On Vet Maw, hey that’s cool and it speaks to the point I made, as a raid leader If you are doing your job, I don’t need to hear from you unless you see something I am not seeing and what you see will help the raid and induce a positive outcome.
On saying nice things. Generally I am a nice person. I find the anonymity of the web allows for extreme liberties in treating people like crap. I choose to try and treat people well until they give me a reason not too, then I am brutal. If what I said to you made you smile that’s cool, I would say it’s likely in your gaming travels you haven’t crossed paths with the right people.
Last thing on that, it’s likely I’ve been gaming longer than you have been alive. I have kids in high school. Generally (emphasis generally) the older you become the wiser you are. Wisdom for me is the ability to reflect on the past and disseminate what was good and bad and try to apply it to the present to derive a better outcome in the future. It’s been my experience that treating people with respect and kindness, regardless of race, gender and age usually gets you great results.
Good Luck
But, thats just my two cents. Its neither right nor wrong in any kinda absolute way. :)
I've always been wishing - even before EQ2- to be part of a group where we know each others moves well enough that we have set combos based on the situation.
In Wizard101, I played with an elite group of PvPers who did just that. They power-leveled me and it was a fascinating training experience. That's a turn-based game. We'd have a bit of time to make a decision about which card we would play. Based on what the previous people played, you could choose cards that would augment theirs, but up through the middle levels, they would have finished the battle before my card was even triggered. We didn't have to say anything, we just understood how all of our abilities worked and follow along without vocal direction. It would be awesome to recreate that in a more action-based MMORPG.
Sowrd Art Online at a few episodes devoted to this concept. Where the advanced members trained the newbies how to play off of each other's abilities. But, there also was a position in every group for a strategist who would call out updates to the group.
As long as you could hear and react... you being mute should be fine.
Seems, too, that there might be emotes you could use as signals.
We did some of that in Landmark - especially while exploring caverns together.
"We're not elitist, but we would never take someone like you in our group." ! !
lmao
Yeah, I supposed it is odd, looking around me. Everyone speaks these days. For me, frankly, its a rule to never tell people my age, gender, location, etc. to random online people. I guess its still odd, but perhaps you understand why I don't speak, now.
[quote quote=20827]But, thats just my two cents. Its neither right nor wrong in any kinda absolute way.[/quote]
Hey, ScardyFox, thanks for keeping it lighthearted! I started this thread afraid that angry people would come. I'm glad that isn't the case. Thanks for your opinion!
<3
There's really no substitute to mic communication. Especially in action MMO's where your focus needs to be on the screen and not in the corner where the text is. Even if you move it closer to the center, it will still be distracting for the eyes to shift focus from the enemy to the chat text.
That being said, not everyone needs a mics. And I have played my early years of action games without one due to my shy nature. Back then, I only used headphones to listen to the group chat. <strong>Most combat is pretty intuitive, what's expected of your character doesn't require a mic, but rather trust.</strong> If your group can trust you to heal them, perform your healer duties, and watch your own aggro and positioning, then a mic will only be used to say "good job" at the end of an epic battle.
A side note: in game communication via text takes away from the game immersion. I think the main reason people use mics, is to be more immersed in their gameplay and not have to constantly stop to type a sentence or two. All these acronyms like wtf, ttyl, ily, etc were created to speed up typing. And mics are just another way to speed up communication between players. If mind reading became a thing, that would replace mics for people who want the fastest communication possible.
I'm sure you will find a guild that will cooperate with you and some that don't. These kind of situations are usually accommodated by the player side, not the devs side. Devs can only do so much, like allow you to move your text interface, resize and change font color. Everything else comes down to the players if they wish to be more accommodating to players of special needs.
There's really no substitute to mic communication. Especially in action MMO's where your focus needs to be on the screen and not in the corner where the text is. Even if you move it closer to the center, it will still be distracting for the eyes to shift focus from the enemy to the chat text.
That being said, not everyone needs a mics. And I have played my early years of action games without one due to my shy nature. Back then, I only used headphones to listen to the group chat. <strong>Most combat is pretty intuitive, what's expected of your character doesn't require a mic, but rather trust.</strong> If your group can trust you to heal them, perform your healer duties, and watch your own aggro and positioning, then a mic will only be used to say "good job" at the end of an epic battle.
A side note: in game communication via text takes away from the game immersion. I think the main reason people use mics, is to be more immersed in their gameplay and not have to constantly stop to type a sentence or two. All these acronyms like wtf, ttyl, ily, etc were created to speed up typing. And mics are just another way to speed up communication between players. If mind reading became a thing, that would replace mics for people who want the fastest communication possible.
Beautifully put.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20827" rel="nofollow">ScardyFox wrote:</a></div>
To be honest, we would never take someone who doesn’t speak on a raid team. We’re not elitist by any means, but you need to be able to make calls fast. Unless there is something physically wrong with the person, I personally find people who don’t speak odd.
</blockquote>
“We’re not elitist, but we would never take someone like you in our group.” ! !
lmao
[/quote]
Elitism I would argue, is based on skill and saying you're not good enough. I don't think a lack of the fundamentals of speaking in a raid environment, and saying thats a big no-no, would donate elitism.
[quote quote=20844]<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20827" rel="nofollow">ScardyFox wrote:</a></div>
Unless there is something physically wrong with the person, I personally find people who don’t speak odd.
</blockquote>
Yeah, I supposed it is odd, looking around me. Everyone speaks these days. For me, frankly, its a rule to never tell people my age, gender, location, etc. to random online people. I guess its still odd, but perhaps you understand why I don’t speak, now.
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20827" rel="nofollow">ScardyFox wrote:</a></div>
But, thats just my two cents. Its neither right nor wrong in any kinda absolute way.
</blockquote>
Hey, ScardyFox, thanks for keeping it lighthearted! I started this thread afraid that angry people would come. I’m glad that isn’t the case. Thanks for your opinion!
<3[/quote]
I... know what you mean on a cerebral level but can't connect in any other way. I suppose its because I am use to speaking to people in our guild daily. Personally I love getting to know people and have known some of my online friends for several years now, including doing real life meetups. I think you're probably overreacting, but thats very easy for me to say sitting from my position.
And no need to thank me - just because I don't agree doesn't mean it have to fast-travel down some kind of vitriolic/contentious route. I am happy to have a back-n`-forth of opinions.
I believe this may be, largely, a generational thing. In our guild? Ok, to begin, we do the things we do for fun. Or for story progression. We don't care about being the biggest, baddest, eliteist whatevers out there; we want ourselves, <em>and</em> the people we're in a guild with, to have fun. To enjoy the game. We'll happily wipe on dungeons/raids all day long, as long as we're making progress. So to begin with, our outlook is certainly different than a hardcore raiding guild.
All that said and put to the side, it's pretty simple to us. You're here to have fun, to try, to learn, whatever. Being in a chat channel with us so you can <em>hear</em> the raid leader's instructions is important. Tanking? Very important, but if our tank can't/won't talk, then we'll run through the encounter afterward, via text chat (either instance/party/guild) and then we'll try it again.
Younger generations (and my daughters are 29 and 26, respectively, so yeah, I'm that old) have been raised with headsets on their heads for most of their interaction; typing is slow, clumsy, and inefficient for them; hell, many of them cannot spell or string together whole sentences in writing. So I get it, you feel that there's not enough good that can come outta a fantastic healer to offset their "oddness" in not speaking.
And that's fine. People like me, like our guild? We'll say "C'mon in, let's figure things out, and most of all? Let's have fun." We are not reliant on the voice in our ears to make things work.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20827" rel="nofollow">ScardyFox wrote:</a></div>
Unless there is something physically wrong with the person, I personally find people who don’t speak odd.
</blockquote>
I believe this may be, largely, a generational thing. In our guild? Ok, to begin, we do the things we do for fun. Or for story progression. We don’t care about being the biggest, baddest, eliteist whatevers out there; we want ourselves, <em>and</em> the people we’re in a guild with, to have fun. To enjoy the game. We’ll happily wipe on dungeons/raids all day long, as long as we’re making progress. So to begin with, our outlook is certainly different than a hardcore raiding guild.
All that said and put to the side, it’s pretty simple to us. You’re here to have fun, to try, to learn, whatever. Being in a chat channel with us so you can <em>hear</em> the raid leader’s instructions is important. Tanking? Very important, but if our tank can’t/won’t talk, then we’ll run through the encounter afterward, via text chat (either instance/party/guild) and then we’ll try it again.
Younger generations (and my daughters are 29 and 26, respectively, so yeah, I’m that old) have been raised with headsets on their heads for most of their interaction; typing is slow, clumsy, and inefficient for them; hell, many of them cannot spell or string together whole sentences in writing. So I get it, you feel that there’s not enough good that can come outta a fantastic healer to offset their “oddness” in not speaking.
And that’s fine. People like me, like our guild? We’ll say “C’mon in, let’s figure things out, and most of all? Let’s have fun.” We are not reliant on the voice in our ears to make things work.
[/quote]
No, I'm not generalizing so much as speaking for myself exclusively. That said, I simply look at it in a far more pragmatic point of view. Raids are dynamic (at least in the game I play), thus you need a fast response in a raiding environment. Like I said, I take a simplistic point of view on it and whether people want to admit it or not, someone on comms will always be picked over someone who is mute if a choice is there. (<--- thats a generalization :) )
EDIT: Not sure why my other post won't show.
[quote quote=20837]<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20827" rel="nofollow">ScardyFox wrote:</a></div>
To be honest, we would never take someone who doesn’t speak on a raid team. We’re not elitist by any means, but you need to be able to make calls fast. Unless there is something physically wrong with the person, I personally find people who don’t speak odd.
</blockquote>
“We’re not elitist, but we would never take someone like you in our group.” ! !
lmao
[/quote]
Elitism I would argue, is based on skill and saying you're not good enough. I don't think a lack of the fundamentals of speaking in a raid environment, and saying thats a big no-no, would donate elitism.
[quote quote=20844]<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20827" rel="nofollow">ScardyFox wrote:</a></div>
Unless there is something physically wrong with the person, I personally find people who don’t speak odd.
</blockquote>
Yeah, I supposed it is odd, looking around me. Everyone speaks these days. For me, frankly, its a rule to never tell people my age, gender, location, etc. to random online people. I guess its still odd, but perhaps you understand why I don’t speak, now.
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20827" rel="nofollow">ScardyFox wrote:</a></div>
But, thats just my two cents. Its neither right nor wrong in any kinda absolute way.
</blockquote>
Hey, ScardyFox, thanks for keeping it lighthearted! I started this thread afraid that angry people would come. I’m glad that isn’t the case. Thanks for your opinion!
<3[/quote]
I... know what you mean on a cerebral level but can't connect in any other way. I suppose its because I am use to speaking to people in our guild daily. Personally I love getting to know people and have known some of my online friends for several years now, including doing real life meetups. I think you're probably overreacting, but thats very easy for me to say sitting from my position.
And no need to thank me - just because I don't agree doesn't mean it have to fast-travel down some kind of vitriolic/contentious route. I am happy to have a back-n`-forth of opinions.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20827" rel="nofollow">ScardyFox wrote:</a></div>
Unless there is something physically wrong with the person, I personally find people who don’t speak odd.
</blockquote>
I believe this may be, largely, a generational thing. In our guild? Ok, to begin, we do the things we do for fun. Or for story progression. We don’t care about being the biggest, baddest, eliteist whatevers out there; we want ourselves, <em>and</em> the people we’re in a guild with, to have fun. To enjoy the game. We’ll happily wipe on dungeons/raids all day long, as long as we’re making progress. So to begin with, our outlook is certainly different than a hardcore raiding guild.
All that said and put to the side, it’s pretty simple to us. You’re here to have fun, to try, to learn, whatever. Being in a chat channel with us so you can <em>hear</em> the raid leader’s instructions is important. Tanking? Very important, but if our tank can’t/won’t talk, then we’ll run through the encounter afterward, via text chat (either instance/party/guild) and then we’ll try it again.
Younger generations (and my daughters are 29 and 26, respectively, so yeah, I’m that old) have been raised with headsets on their heads for most of their interaction; typing is slow, clumsy, and inefficient for them; hell, many of them cannot spell or string together whole sentences in writing. So I get it, you feel that there’s not enough good that can come outta a fantastic healer to offset their “oddness” in not speaking.
And that’s fine. People like me, like our guild? We’ll say “C’mon in, let’s figure things out, and most of all? Let’s have fun.” We are not reliant on the voice in our ears to make things work.
[/quote]
Love your attitude.
Sounds like a great guild too.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20861" rel="nofollow">Isende wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20827" rel="nofollow">ScardyFox wrote:</a></div>
Unless there is something physically wrong with the person, I personally find people who don’t speak odd.
</blockquote>
I believe this may be, largely, a generational thing. In our guild? Ok, to begin, we do the things we do for fun. Or for story progression. We don’t care about being the biggest, baddest, eliteist whatevers out there; we want ourselves, <em>and</em> the people we’re in a guild with, to have fun. To enjoy the game. We’ll happily wipe on dungeons/raids all day long, as long as we’re making progress. So to begin with, our outlook is certainly different than a hardcore raiding guild.
All that said and put to the side, it’s pretty simple to us. You’re here to have fun, to try, to learn, whatever. Being in a chat channel with us so you can <em>hear</em> the raid leader’s instructions is important. Tanking? Very important, but if our tank can’t/won’t talk, then we’ll run through the encounter afterward, via text chat (either instance/party/guild) and then we’ll try it again.
Younger generations (and my daughters are 29 and 26, respectively, so yeah, I’m that old) have been raised with headsets on their heads for most of their interaction; typing is slow, clumsy, and inefficient for them; hell, many of them cannot spell or string together whole sentences in writing. So I get it, you feel that there’s not enough good that can come outta a fantastic healer to offset their “oddness” in not speaking.
And that’s fine. People like me, like our guild? We’ll say “C’mon in, let’s figure things out, and most of all? Let’s have fun.” We are not reliant on the voice in our ears to make things work.
</blockquote>
No, I’m not generalizing so much as speaking for myself exclusively. That said, I simply look at it in a far more pragmatic point of view. Raids are dynamic (at least in the game I play), thus you need a fast response in a raiding environment. Like I said, I take a simplistic point of view on it and whether people want to admit it or not, someone on comms will always be picked over someone who is mute if a choice is there. (<— thats a generalization <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f642.svg" /> )
[/quote]
As a raid leader for both PVE and PVP content I agree. I am going to defer to someone who has a mic and is willing to talk. However never at the exclusion of someone who doesn’t. Let me explain (I’m leaving out guilds, and specific names) Many moons ago I was a raid leader in a very big mmo, I got the Friday night raid and I got to pick from many people signing up.
In those days, 2003-2007 ish, you had a lot of raid locks, you got one shot a week at content and people wanted in raids. I had one kid (yes he was a kid) who was awkward, he simply didn’t interact well with other people but his DPS was amongst the best. I would take him often when no one else would and he did fine.
He did fine because as the raid leader I put him in a position to succeed. I enabled him to not have to speak much at all by using his performance as a citation in several guild officer chats. Now he didn’t know the extent but simply put, the kid did his job but was a goof. I muted him more than once and spent many a convo explaining to him why. In the end, like most games and guilds things putter out but he began to understand how to exists in flourish in my raids. He stopped goofing, he started giving other DPS tips and helping them, he became a raid leader himself.
If he didn’t have voice chat it would have been exponentially harder to get that outcome. That said what is paramount is understanding that everyone has different socialization, intellectual capacities and will to succeed then others. A good leader manages it, I’ve had plenty of cases I had to kick people out for being asshats, those are easy. The hardest is getting that person who might be socially off to a place where they succeed. I’ve never been a guild leader and I never want to be but raid leader? I can work with anyone if they want to work with me, mic or not.
[quote quote=20861]<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20827" rel="nofollow">ScardyFox wrote:</a></div>
Unless there is something physically wrong with the person, I personally find people who don’t speak odd.
</blockquote>
I believe this may be, largely, a generational thing. In our guild? Ok, to begin, we do the things we do for fun. Or for story progression. We don’t care about being the biggest, baddest, eliteist whatevers out there; we want ourselves, <em>and</em> the people we’re in a guild with, to have fun. To enjoy the game. We’ll happily wipe on dungeons/raids all day long, as long as we’re making progress. So to begin with, our outlook is certainly different than a hardcore raiding guild.
All that said and put to the side, it’s pretty simple to us. You’re here to have fun, to try, to learn, whatever. Being in a chat channel with us so you can <em>hear</em> the raid leader’s instructions is important. Tanking? Very important, but if our tank can’t/won’t talk, then we’ll run through the encounter afterward, via text chat (either instance/party/guild) and then we’ll try it again.
Younger generations (and my daughters are 29 and 26, respectively, so yeah, I’m that old) have been raised with headsets on their heads for most of their interaction; typing is slow, clumsy, and inefficient for them; hell, many of them cannot spell or string together whole sentences in writing. So I get it, you feel that there’s not enough good that can come outta a fantastic healer to offset their “oddness” in not speaking.
And that’s fine. People like me, like our guild? We’ll say “C’mon in, let’s figure things out, and most of all? Let’s have fun.” We are not reliant on the voice in our ears to make things work.
[/quote]
No, I'm not generalizing so much as speaking for myself exclusively. That said, I simply look at it in a far more pragmatic point of view. Raids are dynamic (at least in the game I play), thus you need a fast response in a raiding environment. Like I said, I take a simplistic point of view on it and whether people want to admit it or not, someone on comms will always be picked over someone who is mute if a choice is there. (<--- thats a generalization :) )
EDIT: Not sure why my other post won't show.
[quote quote=20837]<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20827" rel="nofollow">ScardyFox wrote:</a></div>
To be honest, we would never take someone who doesn’t speak on a raid team. We’re not elitist by any means, but you need to be able to make calls fast. Unless there is something physically wrong with the person, I personally find people who don’t speak odd.
</blockquote>
“We’re not elitist, but we would never take someone like you in our group.” ! !
lmao
[/quote]
Elitism I would argue, is based on skill and saying you're not good enough. I don't think a lack of the fundamentals of speaking in a raid environment, and saying thats a big no-no, would donate elitism.
[quote quote=20844]<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20827" rel="nofollow">ScardyFox wrote:</a></div>
Unless there is something physically wrong with the person, I personally find people who don’t speak odd.
</blockquote>
Yeah, I supposed it is odd, looking around me. Everyone speaks these days. For me, frankly, its a rule to never tell people my age, gender, location, etc. to random online people. I guess its still odd, but perhaps you understand why I don’t speak, now.
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/think-being-mutesilent-will-hurt-much/#post-20827" rel="nofollow">ScardyFox wrote:</a></div>
But, thats just my two cents. Its neither right nor wrong in any kinda absolute way.
</blockquote>
Hey, ScardyFox, thanks for keeping it lighthearted! I started this thread afraid that angry people would come. I’m glad that isn’t the case. Thanks for your opinion!
<3[/quote]
I... know what you mean on a cerebral level but can't connect in any other way. I suppose its because I am use to speaking to people in our guild daily. Personally I love getting to know people and have known some of my online friends for several years now, including doing real life meetups. I think you're probably overreacting, but thats very easy for me to say sitting from my position.
And no need to thank me - just because I don't agree doesn't mean it have to fast-travel down some kind of vitriolic/contentious route. I am happy to have a back-n`-forth of opinions.
<3[/quote]
Let them come. I need some new help to swab the deck on the <em>Jolly Baller</em> and they have nothing better to do.
My two dubloons:
I will agree that communication is important. It can mean the difference between life and death even in the real world, but on the other hand I find there's a lot to be said for a person's ability and knowledge with their role. If a player is attempting to run a higher tier raid, they should at that point understand that the run will be difficult. It's meant to be. If they don't, they soon will. It's a part of playing the game: learning to overcome obstacles and better one's ability to do so. So I'll use your healer example. If you know how a healer works, and have become aware enough of other classes strategies, you can effectively watch the battle and act accordingly without ever saying a word. I know this is possible because I've done this myself as every role.
There's no guarantee that everyone will be willing to understand other players' situations, but I am one of the many who can appreciate the willingness you show to support you teammates as well as possible. I've contemplated starting a guild with one of my buddies, and if we did I'd be happy to accept anyone while respecting their wishes to remain silent, be it by choice or not. A desire for privacy or a physical hindrance should not be the reason you can't have fun in a game. Though a bit of chat in the guild chat wouldn't hurt, aye.
TL;DR
You're more than welcome here, and should not have to feel self-conscious about you choice to silence.
For a connection point, and to put it bluntly, I haven't used voice comms because Mama said so. We've all had Mamas, right? :D
And years later, actually, I'm very glad she set that rule down. I seem to be called less bad names than some of my other friends, since I'm a type-only person (and therefore not often at the forefront of conversations).
[quote quote=20860]Personally I love getting to know people and have known some of my online friends for several years now, including doing real life meetups.[/quote]
Real life meetups sound really fun, sometimes. I was actually invited to a Florida Georgia Line concert by a guild of mine, but I didn't go of course.
[quote quote=20860]I think you’re probably overreacting, but thats very easy for me to say sitting from my position.[/quote]
Overreacting!? What are you talking about?!
Only kidding. You may be right. It might just be an overreaction to what I've seen/heard on the internet. I have met some really nice people who voice-over, and they're the ones that speak up for me when we're raiding with another guild.
[quote quote=20872]EDIT: Not sure why my other post won’t show.[/quote]
Not sure why either, but actually now that I refresh, your posts are appearing and totally being wonky in order.
[quote quote=20879]A desire for privacy or a physical hindrance should not be the reason you can’t have fun in a game. Though a bit of chat in the guild chat wouldn’t hurt, aye.[/quote]
Funny thing is, I'm actually so talkative in g-chat that I <em>literally inform</em> a guild before I join them. I love typing, just not talking.
So far it seems like several people would accept muted folk. If I fail to find a guild in-game, I'll come back to this forum. xD
Edited: Fixed grammar things.
For a connection point, and to put it bluntly, I haven't used voice comms because Mama said so. We've all had Mamas, right? :D
And years later, actually, I'm very glad she set that rule down. I seem to be called less bad names than some of my other friends, since I'm a type-only person (and therefore not often at the forefront of conversations).
[quote quote=20860]Personally I love getting to know people and have known some of my online friends for several years now, including doing real life meetups.[/quote]
Real life meetups sound really fun, sometimes. I was actually invited to a Florida Georgia Line concert by a guild of mine, but I didn't go of course.
[quote quote=20860]I think you’re probably overreacting, but thats very easy for me to say sitting from my position.[/quote]
Overreacting!? What are you talking about?!
Only kidding. You may be right. It might just be an overreaction to what I've seen/heard on the internet. I have met some really nice people who voice-over, and they're the ones that speak up for me when we're raiding with another guild.
[quote quote=20872]EDIT: Not sure why my other post won’t show.[/quote]
Not sure why either, but actually now that I refresh, your posts are appearing and totally being wonky in order.
[quote quote=20879]A desire for privacy or a physical hindrance should not be the reason you can’t have fun in a game. Though a bit of chat in the guild chat wouldn’t hurt, aye.[/quote]
Funny thing is, I'm actually so talkative in g-chat that I <em>literally inform</em> a guild before I join them. I love typing, just not talking.
So far it seems like several people would accept muted folk. If I fail to find a guild in-game, I'll come back to this forum. xD
I can't get my head around these multi quote system so I hope I am doing this right. Well, I can certainly understand that point of view being a dad to two. I set the same rules for my daughter and still enforce them at her being 16. However, once you get to a certain age... dunno, I treat it no differently than I would in talking to someone on the street.
[quote quote=20895]<blockquote>Real life meetups sound really fun, sometimes. I was actually invited to a Florida Georgia Line concert by a guild of mine, but I didn’t go of course.[/quote]
Haha, no I wouldn't expect you to.
[quote quote=20895]<blockquote>
Overreacting!? What are you talking about?![/quote]
Only kidding. You may be right. It might just be an overreaction to what I’ve seen/heard on the internet. I have met some really nice people who voice-over, and they’re the ones that speak up for me when we’re raiding with another guild.</blockquote>
STOP YELLING IM SENSITIVE BY NATURE! Don't get me wrong, the internet is a cesspool. But its just like real life in this regard (since its social interactions), if someone is a prick you giv'em the boot. If your Guild has an assortment of people who are like that by nature, time to move on. A good guild will promote a safe atmosphere where it pays to be gregarious - not the opposite. So, in said circumstance you do find a place that promotes that I;d say its OK to let the shield and barbed-wire down.
[quote quote=20895]<blockquote>A desire for privacy or a physical hindrance should not be the reason you can’t have fun in a game. Though a bit of chat in the guild chat wouldn’t hurt, aye.
Funny thing is, I’m actually so talkative in g-chat that I <em>literally inform</em> a guild before I join them. I love typing, just not talking.
So far it seems like several people would accept muted folk. If I fail to find a guild in-game, I’ll come back to this forum. xD[/quote]
In no way shape or form would I say it should hinder your fun. However, what I am saying - with upmost veracity - is that it will hinder your raiding chances... or applicability? Its a new game, people will just take anyone they can to join a guild for whatever reason. Regardless of that, I don't think you'd have trouble finding a home - I am simply speaking (again I say) in the raiding format. Can I respect your privacy? Of course, but I think you're missing a lot because of it. In real life do you keep yourself hidden in the same cloak of ambiguity (are you a ninja, btw)? Or do you not worry so much? I just think youre cutting yourself off from some possibility truly memorable circumstances.
Think its just the dad in me at this point lightheartedly lecturing you cause I want better for you.
I am here from a medium sized guild that mainly plays a single MMO similar to what this game looks to be shaping up as. Just checking things out, so to speak! :)
We have been playing together only for a short 2 1/2 years but we are all still friendly and companionable. That is because we all respect the boundaries of the others be they limited playtime, new and clueless, having to leave many times on short notice, or do not speak in voice chat. One of us in fact has risen to lead one of our more prominent cities(settlement or fortress probably more accurate) and we have never heard his voice once. Lol I say "his" but there is no telling for sure! :) He does fine and is a very valued member, participating often and well in forum discussions, planning and delegating to those he needs to. In "raids" he is awesome. He knows what to do and also responds well when fast changes are called for.
Having said that, we also have one or more people that never speak in chat and are not the "stars" of the show by any means but they do try very hard to learn. We take them and we accept the "No Voice Chat Limitations" and we work with them. Whether you are a star or not you are important because you have thrown your time in with us, as a group, and we appreciate everyone.
There are some achievement focused groups that may not want to deal with non chat players because they are very competitive and feel that will hamper them in some way. I wouldn't worry too much. There are going to be plenty of groups in AoC that are very much more open and do not place value or judgment of players on just a few criteria.
You seem like a nice person. You will find the perfect group. Hope to see you in game! :)
Hehe, actually yeah I don't get out much outside of the farm. Cities are scary as heck - very glad I don't live in one. And yes, I'm terribly introverted. Ballet, Gymnastics, Taekwondo and church are my social comfort zones, but only because I'm used to them.
[quote quote=20909]I can’t get my head around these multi quote system so I hope I am doing this right.[/quote]
LOL! No, something is defiantly going on here. You quoted me, but put a paragraph of what someone else said under my quote, therefore making it look like I said something I didn't. Can't wait for new forum.
[quote quote=20911]We have been playing together only for a short 2 1/2 years[/quote]
Short...? Hehe, okay. :)
[quote quote=20911]One of us in fact has risen to lead one of our more prominent cities(settlement or fortress probably more accurate) and we have never heard his voice once. Lol I say “his” but there is no telling for sure! He does fine and is a very valued member, participating often and well in forum discussions, planning and delegating to those he needs to. In “raids” he is awesome. He knows what to do and also responds well when fast changes are called for.[/quote]
That guy was given a wonderful chance to prove himself, then. That sounds super cool!
[quote quote=20911]You seem like a nice person. You will find the perfect group. Hope to see you in game![/quote]
I hope I do find the perfect group, and to see you in-game, too! Honestly I plan on following Deltia and owning an Inn in whatever city he goes to. He was in my ESO guild that spammed vMaws all day, and I respect what he does on Youtube.
I LOVE Southern drawls. I don't have one, unless I try, but most of my RP characters do. My favorite music artists have drawls, which makes them even more epic! (Chris Ledoux, Brantley Gilbert, Johhny Cash)
[quote quote=20909]I can’t get my head around these multi quote system[/quote]
Alright, so to quote like I am:
1. Highlight the part you want to quote
2. Click the "Quote" button on bottom of the specific post
This will put the quote down in the post box at the bottom.
3. Type a reply to the quote
4. Use return to go to the next line
5. Scroll up to the next sentence you want to quote and repeat the process.
Hope I wrote that okay...
Edit: Grammar.
That said, it also hasn't precluded me from listening in on chats where everyone else is talking, and contributing my two cents by text. Some times you have to bite the bullet and use voice chat, but there have been plenty of instances where there are simply too many people trying to talk at once and all it does is confuse people. At that point I've seen others just lock down the chat to where only one or two people can talk during the event period, which defeats the purpose of a voice chat anyways.
Honestly it will come down to who and what you're doing. If the people know you, you won't have an issue. Of course if you're dead silent via either voice chat or text, then you don't help yourself period. :P