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World size speculation

Is it too early to compare this game's World size? How big is it going to be? I currently play Elder Scrolls Online and find that it is insanely big, if it wasn't for the way shrines I think it will take literally 30-60 minutes to travel from 1 end to the other, my head hurts just thinking about the public dungeons and combining with the insane amount of landmass in that game. It takes around if not more 60gigs of space in my hard drive.

Anyways, I heard AoC is not going to use fast travel, other than I heard somewhere that maybe the "mage" metropolis can have a teleportation device that can transit you to another metropolis with a device but don't take my word for it. For us peasants, were going to be walking from 1 end to the other or even swimming which will decrease the travel time further (just remembered my WoW days when I use to quest underwater) my toon was slower than a turtle only to get ganked just before I was about to reach my last quest item and return it back to the quest giver.

Although for this type of game with heavy emphasis on pvp nodes , it better be very big. I mean if you take Cyrodiil in elder scrolls online, the distances between the keeps are respectable. But I'm betting that were going to have many more "nodes" to work with than the amount of keeps in ESO. And without fast travel , which I think is a good thing for PvP, I prefer insanely huge maps. Because distances matter, it creates strategy and preparation.

Comments

  • I know I've heard something about the size of the map before, but I can't recall it. Though to use reasoning, let's think of it like. We know there are 5 fortresses spread out across the map ((Not including potential Underealm or Naval Fortress that might exist)) Let's assume those are pretty well spaced. When it comes to "Fast Travel" they wanna make the map 'large' so it feels like a journey or an adventure as you progress throughout the world, each area is an event. Not to mention all the nodes, and depending on which node is up and if certain agreements go well roads can be established for "Faster Travel" not like warping "Fast Travel" it's just maybe you could hitch a ride with a taxi service or something like that but that's not confirmed. We just know if there are roads we can move faster to other established nodes.

    Now if we take into factor that only '5' nodes can be established at any given point in time, depending on where they are located and how bunched up they are. This could set the pace for where you might be able to get to in terms of that "Faster Travel", my speculation is since '5' can be established and now we have '5' races Being the Elf,Human,Orc,Dwarf and Underealm I'm gonna take a bet and say the starting are for those 5 races depending on which subrace gets the most population that's where each of our nodes will be placed /At launch that is/ after those initial nodes are taken down who knows where they could pop up next to allow us to travel to.

    Aswell the team talks alot about 'exploring' nooks and crannies and all that sort! When we're factoring in the size of the map are we just considering the 'over'realm ((That being everything that isn't the underealm or the Ocean")) just from point "A" to point "B" or are we going to factor in the caves we delve into and the mountains we climb? I think this map holds alot more depth than alot of us give it credit for. In the stream today they told us that they're pretty much doing all the areas by hand so we can be sure that everywhere we'll won't be a persistent case of "Deja Vu"

    We know that, Kings/queens/mayors/lords of fortresses have access to a flying mount only for the amount of time that they hold that position of power. That's pretty fast I would assume, outrun certain ground mounts while in the air and capable of bypassing certain terrain for ease of access map! And they also spoke about maybe 'legendary mounts' that are on certain timers or something that players can grab and use to fly for maybe limited amounts of time. This is a subject I can't wait to here more about personally.
  • The players start out not from nodes but from the massive portals which they mentioned in the docgotgame q&a (iirc) are spaced really really far apart that it takes a massive time to travel from one to the other. They also mentioned that they'll consider the players being able to choose which portal to accommodate friends who want to be together but at the same time choose different races. From this, I speculate whatever first nodes get activated are going to depend on where a considerable number of players start to explore.

    When they also addressed the early access reward for certain kickstarters, they said they might turn off node activation even as they explore and start to explore and level. Some early players might decide to go really really far from the portal and when the nodes are finally turned on, the node they activate would be on a different location from any of the portals.

    In the stream today, this mentioned the node is around 5km across (2.5km radius). Assuming that's the size the metropolis becomes, add in the node's area of influence, and the possible huge number of nodes, we'd have a pretty huge world.
  • Ugh, I swear I posted. Where is it?
  • I'll just throw out a wild guess and say 25 zones in a world. That's a nice round number that ought to be a good balance for only having 5 metropolis level cities allowed across it.

    Good question though, I think they mentioned during today's they were still "in discussion" about that size.

    "In Discussion" will soon become the trademark/copyright word for Ashes of Creation. lol

    I'm an Altoholic. We are many. We are I.
  • In some Vid somewhere Steve(I think it was Steven) mentioned it would take a player(not mounted) a few hours to run across the world. But with ships and naval features it could be a whole bunch of islands. lol
  • I originally was thinking the world would be relatively small at first, since it's coming from a smaller developer. However after watching the stream today it appears it'll be pretty dang big. If that's just the size of a single city.. I mean.. damn.

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/142465168

    (Video of Metropolis starts at 48 mins in)
  • I swear I posted something but it disappeared...

    IIRC, in the docgotgame q&a, a question was brought up about the possibility of choosing the starting portal instead of being race-defined for friends who want to be together but be different races, and they said they will probably consider that. The portals are really, really far from each other that will take a massive amount of time just to travel to another one without fast travel which they didn't want to implement.

    In the most recent stream, they mentioned that the node would be about 5km across (2.5km radius), just the actual node and not including its area of influence. That size, plus the area of influence, plus possible number of nodes would likely make for a huge world.
  • I really hope the world will be massive and I do mean massive that I have played the game for a year there should still be places I haven't been at.
  • They've said it will be Large, I too would prefer Massive, but I think it's more important to actually design the zones from a gameplay perspective. I think there's nothing worse, in terms of terrain, than looking out at the horizon and just seeing huge amounts of open terrain and some mobs walking around, in all directions. Once the attractiveness of the view it wears off the open terrain becomes quite boring. Some areas like that are ok but it should be done very sparingly. It's nicer to see a vista of the terrain from a rear high point.

    It's good to think your playing in a area that's designed for your enjoyment, with obstacles in the way and challenges to complete, mobs to keep away from and passageways to follow. Terrain should have levels of complexity. I also don't like the feeling I'm traveling in circles unless I'm harvesting resources.
  • Nodes need content. Content takes time.
    I would prefer they scope for massive....but build small for release.
    They can always fill out the map as time allows.
  • @Rune_Relic

    While i agree with your point i think the fact that only X (Number ) Developments of a certain stage can exist at once you would need to start with enough nodes to support that. So medium then grow it as times goes on.
  • I'd like it to be pretty huge... to the point where going from one side of the world to the other may not be possible in a single typical gaming session. Wether you have to camp out, re-supply, something... deciding to make a trip across the world should carry some weight with it!
  • Я бы хотел чтоб в игре не было быстрых перемещений, есть в этом своя прелесть. Придется думать что еще сделать необходимо в определенном месте, чтобы назад не возвращаться))).
  • [quote quote=22298]Я бы хотел чтоб в игре не было быстрых перемещений, есть в этом своя прелесть. Придется думать что еще сделать необходимо в определенном месте, чтобы назад не возвращаться))).

    [/quote]

    I love this, I had to look up the translation, but it's perfect!
  • The larger the world is the less likely there will be issues with blob alliances or massive streamer zerg guilds dominating servers.

    But as doford mentioned, massive expanses of mostly empty landscape can be a big negative. Star Wars Galaxies had areas like that - there weren't even mobs wandering around - it was bleak nowhereland that just felt 'unfinished'.

    Minor-node sites like small outposts/camps/forts that players could build-destroy-rebuild that generated their own limited structured content progression would both spread players out and create a sense of exploration - remoteness but with activity near and tied to it, not just space for the sake of space to make distance between major Nodes larger.
  • Hearing Steven say "large" one wonders how freeholds and farms will impact the size of the world.

    From the various websites it appears that approximately two acres* of arable land is required to sustain a family of four - This takes into account that not all the land is cropland but also has footpaths, tool sheds, small animal pens and yards, as well as some of it lying fallow due to crop rotation.

    Should Intrepid merely wish to give the <em>impression</em> that farming is feeding the cities they could infer the population is being fed on half that, or one-quarter acre per person.

    Speculate a population density of as little is 50 per sq mile and a 5 mile wide metropolis comes out to just under 1000 people not counting the population of the farms and freeholds or even the players. This could easily add another 250 or more. 400 to 500 acres, or 200 to 250 football pitches, will need to be available just to give an impression of sustainability.

    Hunting and fishing would help relieve some of the pressure from plowing under land (after clearing it of forests?) and could make those areas sought after as much as cropland.

    But also note that not only do the city centers have to be fed but also the surrounding countryside which would dictate that as the nodes' ZOI grows the arable land around it would need to expand as well.

    All this comes at the expense of questing area - Farm lands could be threatened by simple predators (making for low level content) but for the most part there would not enough of a risk/reward for mid- to high level players to trouble with.

    In order to provide that mid- to high level content away from civilization there should be land that remains wild (forests, mountains, deserts, etc). Large areas that have no nodes but are places where the wild things are and continue to be.

    TL:DR - The world could prove to be so large that the majority of the players will never see most of all there is to see.

    * - Two acres comes out to ~295ft ( ~90m) per side of a perfect square. Think of it as widening and making roughly square either a US football (hand-egg) field or a football pitch. Sprinkle in some trees and rocks as well as maybe a stream wandering alongside or even through the fields.
  • [quote quote=22338]
    TL:DR – The world could prove to be so large that the majority of the players will never see most of all there is to see.

    [/quote]

    This, would be the ultimate dream.

    Think of how amazing it would be if every time you log on, you know that you can see somewhere that you have never seen before. Striking out in one direction, by foot or by sea, means you are *moving* with intent, and new adventures lie ahead - rather than traversing the world and always coming back to the same place every night - because it's just not possible! This would make regional markets and economies much more interesting as well.

    Here's hoping!
  • The land mass won't change, but the content and maybe even the fora will . How different will it look from server to server? We can only wait and see. How long are we going to be locked in 1 server ? It's also something that I wondered about when I think of the World size, say the World is Biblical proportions and I'm stuck in a server where my guild resides., and I'm an explorer at heart, will i be penalized from switching 1 server to another just for the sake of exploring and content access? Or perhaps when the game comes out, it's wiser not to commit to a guild and play solo.
  • [quote quote=22292]I’d like it to be pretty huge… to the point where going from one side of the world to the other may not be possible in a single typical gaming session. Wether you have to camp out, re-supply, something… deciding to make a trip across the world should carry some weight with it!

    [/quote]

    Yes. This kind of goes back to the travel question.

    I can feel the need to go on an epic adventure would require time and maybe many days, to feel genuinely epic and vast in scale.
    No fast travel helps with that.

    But what of all the people that maybe have 1 hour to spend a night.
    What if they cant join their team mates for 3-4 days, because life got in the way.

    I just dont know how you square that circle.
    If you say, limted time players should stick with limited time players.....how do they cope with the vast distances ?
    And do you really want to fragment the community into the time rich vs time poor.
  • The idea of Nodes and Caravans does give off the impression that it is going to be a substantially large world... but who knows at this point. I think reducing the size would take away from the caravan and trading aspect which has attracted a lot of players to this game. Therefore, I don't have an issue with it being large (if it is). However, it may get a little tedious but that is a small price to pay for such a great trading system.
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