I am just going to post this here again because its getting old, people need to read the stuff on the discord and maybe listen to the Devs once in a while before the start getting wet dreams about Ashes being a murderbox!!!
<blockquote>So here are my five cents to this forum post:
There is a big misunderstanding when it comes to pvp, especially on the community discord atm. Its so bad that as soon as it comes up i leave the channel. People need to learn to differentiate between PvP, Open Pvp and Stpvp.
The Devs. sad early on that AoC wont be a “Murderbox”, there will be several systems in place to prevent people prevent people from going on killing sprees or gank players all day. That sad you can be sure that open world pvp wont be happening all the time, there will be situation where it will be but it wont be 24/7 because of what steven and the other devs sad concerning “Murderboxes” and there corruption system.
Which brings me to pvp, the game is setup so there will be times where you have to fight other players: Sieges, Caravans, and Events. The Game is setup so that you have to take part in it, there is a balance between pvp and pve in Ashes people should get use to it. So if your just going for PvE related content or just Open world pvp you might want to check out others games to be honest.
And the last thing i want to talk about is Structured PvP, meaning Arena based Pvp. People on the discord are already spreading the rumor u will be able to join an arena with the gear u get from crafting and so on. If thats the case Arenas will get boring really quick, because like in every other game that has a system like that the once who have the best gear will be on top. This doesnt mean those players have the best skill , it only means those players have more time to get the best gear. If you take any MMORGP with a Stpvp system that is based on Rank, MMR or Gearscore you will notice that Skill is more important and the once with better skill will climb higher than the others. GW2 is the best example for this; as soon as u enter the stpvp lounge everybody has acess to the same gear and so on. So unless the Dev. put in a Stpvp system the should leave arenas out of the game. I play gw2 a few times a week, and i still win 8/10 matches each time compared to my guildies that play every day for hours.
<blockquote>So if your just going for PvE related content or just Open world pvp you might want to check out others games to be honest.</blockquote>
No, i´m not with you on this. As long as you theoretically are allowed to kill anyone anywhere there will be 24/7 Open PvP. I promise you, i will study the "corruption system" and after that it will still be possible for me to PK players. Don´t get me wrong, i´m not a big fan of useless mass gank. I want to PK only people i´m sure to get a feedback in any form. What is a fine gank without a crying carebear? Someone who doesn´t care to be killed.... well, i´m not interested to kill ;)
You can also hire me as a sort of "bounty hunter". You won´t believe how many people in ArcheAge paid me and my crew gold and APEX only for mass ganking some of their own guild members they didn´t like. I will offer all my soul and corruption to the right price ;)
[quote quote=23278]Yes!! and that makes the game more exciting! I miss the Lineage2 pvp system open for everyone anywhere. It had its flaws but it was so much fun. [/quote]
Indeed, it was the best system in an higher class MMORPG ever, even after the "re-design"
I hope i´m allowed to post this classic one here. I loved doing this sooo much xD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EufqmDjMOBU
"well i get karma yes :D? -720 :D 1 hour to get -1 reputation :D and while killing mobs i got i idea to make someone suffer :D he saw me red oooo ye i will get green nick when i kill him i just killed one mob reputation to 0 :D and he just pk me :D"
Just amaaazing. And i swear to you, there will be those naughty methods in Ashes, too :)
you guys watched stevens streams right? and where he stated this game wont be a kill box? i doubt you can study the systems as much as you want, the devs will always be a step ahead of you if they are planning on preventing what you guys just stated , which they did. And you cant hire bounty hunters, you can turn the bounty hunter status on and off and go after people that are corrupted, pls read and watch the streams and docs. first.
[quote quote=23285]you guys watched stevens streams right? and where he stated this game wont be a kill box? i doubt you can study the systems as much as you want, the devs will always be a step ahead of you if they are planning on preventing what you guys just stated , which they did. And you cant hire bounty hunters, you can turn the bounty hunter status on and off and go after people that are corrupted, pls read and watch the streams and docs. first. [/quote]
As i said it´s some kind of bounty hunter, a player is paying me to kill someone he doesn´t like, there´s no UI or system needed for player interaction. That´s what MMORPGs were made for ... once upon a time.
I know that he stated that. And now please tell me only one MMORPG where you couldn´t undergo the karma/corruption call it whatever you like system. I also said that i hope the devs will find ways to change the systems, so i have to be creative to find other ways. And there will be other ways ^^
I'm not a fan of PKforlulz players at all so don't take the following in the wrong way. Nor do I think that Steven and his crew are ignorant concerning what Gank4Fun is posting about here. There are always ways around punitive systems, limitations and such that allow these types of players to still do what they want to do. These sorts of players are usually pretty rare though if the systems to prevent them are strong enough.
A real key from the get go are subscription models and strong ToS + EULA clauses with enforcement. You don't back that up with Banhammer, well you are asking for a mess. If Intrepid can make the Corruption System meaningful as well as community pressure with very rewarding Bounty Hunting. Maybe even some real Node citizenship issues that Leaders can apply, then it will be as good as it can be if you still want to allow RPK for banditry and small scale RPK stuff like claiming a farming area.[u] Just plz don't put rewarding Bounty Hunters into the hands of players. Don't let one or a few deaths remove great amounts of corruption. Those are pretty obvious loopholes.[/u] Relying largely on player groups to police these type of players is not very effective. I'll just throw that out there as a message from personal experience.
There is no 100% prevention and that's ok considering that Intrepid wants some small time RPK, there are multiple servers and there are large worlds. You do have to look out for yourself and be suspicious of strangers and bank often and and try to be grouped with others when "outside" consider if you want to just let the attacker take the corruption hit or flee or fight.
Gank4Fun is trolling in a way. He is trying to get a negative reaction and stir people up. I am hoping it just reinforces Intrepid to be more thorough as they put their system together.
I would hire you to take care of my enemies any day. If the price is right, why not?
If you can game the system, I don't really care. You should actually be rewarded for finding loopholes and creating an assassin guild within the confines of the system. The risk is definitely there, and the reward should be that much sweeter.
If people are getting upset, they should ban together and create a bounty hunter guild instead of relying on the devs to stomp out OWPVP. The devs already put the incentives for players, aka corruption = loot lost. So people can make a living on just hunting down corrupt players.
[quote quote=23392] Gank4Fun is trolling in a way. He is trying to get a negative reaction and stir people up. I am hoping it just reinforces Intrepid to be more thorough as they put their system together. [/quote]
No, i´m not trolling. And there are many players playing the style i play. They just don´t talk about these issues in public. In AA we had a guild specialized in PKing and as you can see in some reactions in this thread there could be a new home for PK lovers.
"If people are getting upset, they should ban together and create a bounty hunter guild instead of relying on the devs to stomp out OWPVP. The devs already put the incentives for players, aka corruption = loot lost. So people can make a living on just hunting down corrupt players."
Good advice and might actually help somewhat depending on how you go about becoming a Bounty Hunter. Who can(sounded like it takes a certain type of Node), it isn't a joke i.e. I take my gear off and stow it then have my friend kill me and we split the coin reward, and a few other possible loopholes.
I will admit I have not yet played a game that had RPKs visible on the map, so that might make a significant difference. I have to admit that I have never seen an MMO where the player base is willing to spend most of their time being a type of "police force". Not for very long anyway. I hope that I am in for a surprise here.
The "elephant in the room" is that Intrepid WANTS some RPK style play to be possible and even rewarding. Because of that, they just can't/won't make it impossible or too unpleasant for those that want to be bandits-pirates-etc. to be able to operate. Finding that spot where a bandit can have "X" scores a day and "X+1" is getting to be too many is a real tough area to navigate. It's one powerful reason why there are almost always enough loopholes for these RPKforlulz guys to do their thing too.
Well said. It really does come down to incentivizing players to be that "police force" or even just having players hire other players for safety. If people find it dangerous to go out and harvest ores, they will hire guards = higher prices in the market for ores. Everything is intertwined so if the player base ignores protecting the gathering professions, they will end up paying for it down the road anyways.
ok peeps. from what Steven has said many times...this game will not be a gankbox. he is a gamer too and knows what goes on. sure you might be able to kill some people but the corruption will build and build till you are useless. also if you die and have a high enough corruption you have a chance of loosing the gear that was allowing you to PK in the first place. oh and one death will not get rid of corruption either. it will take time to remove that label
[quote quote=23519]ok peeps. from what Steven has said many times…this game will not be a gankbox. he is a gamer too and knows what goes on. sure you might be able to kill some people but the corruption will build and build till you are useless. also if you die and have a high enough corruption you have a chance of loosing the gear that was allowing you to PK in the first place. oh and one death will not get rid of corruption either. it will take time to remove that label
[/quote]
So you get a friend to kill you and loot your corpse and return your gear unless the gear is destroyed.
[quote quote=23530]ok but then the original Ganker is still dying and receiving damage to gear. and i do like PvP but i hate griefing.
[/quote] Plus he still also gets the xp debt. I really don't think I have been wrapping my head around all of the cumulative wooes of being a RPKforlulz player. At least not ALL of them added together at the same time... Hmmmm....
i agree with Steven that the game has to have meaningfull PvP like raiding a caravan or attacking a guild or settlement or battlegrounds but griefing doesnt doesnt really belong. all i want is for the game to have a healthy community and player base
</blockquote> So you get a friend to kill you and loot your corpse and return your gear unless the gear is destroyed. [/quote]
That is one way of getting around... but there are many others. And to be honest, there is always this one guy in a game who logs out instantly after he got PKed once. And i will find him and get him. Not that much corruption for me for that much fun ^^
[quote quote=23582]So you get a friend to kill you and loot your corpse and return your gear unless the gear is destroyed. [/quote]
That is one way of getting around… but there are many others. And to be honest, there is always this one guy in a game who logs out instantly after he got PKed once. And i will find him and get him. Not that much corruption for me for that much fun ^^
[/quote] You mean many other ways of getting around dealing with a corruption score that you already have? What could those be since that has not been explained yet? I am aware that there are usually ways to get characters killed so that you don't get any bad credit. Hopefully anyone having "fun" against the same character enough times will get your account banned. That will be harder to recover from... ;)
[quote quote=23533]i agree with Steven that the game has to have meaningfull PvP like raiding a caravan or attacking a guild or settlement or battlegrounds but griefing doesnt doesnt really belong. all i want is for the game to have a healthy community and player base
[/quote] I feel like we're forgetting the opposite type of griefing.. when someone decides to say "I'm not flagging so if you kill me you get consequences and since I'm not gonna flag I can just fuck with you all day long and the only way for you to stop me is to take the loss" if they make the consequences too strong then PvP in open world is just meaningless in the long run.. It is true that there are always going to be senseless gankers (Griefers) but there are also those who may exploit the system to gain advantage against Pkers (Def. looking at you BDO)
Depending on how ressing works (corpse running or instant to a nearby spot or something) it should be somewhat trivial to respond to a gank, or surely repeated ganks, by just coming back and killing the guy. I pvp a bunch and have always geared well so as annoying as gankers are in some other games, the corruption probably gives me the upper hand since I can actually be rewarded for coming back and getting revenge.
Of course if you have to run back from an incredibly long way away or deal with a long res timer or something, then perhaps it could be frustrating. If we get the opportunity to respond then I'll enjoy it very much.
Comments
<blockquote>So here are my five cents to this forum post:
There is a big misunderstanding when it comes to pvp, especially on the community discord atm. Its so bad that as soon as it comes up i leave the channel. People need to learn to differentiate between PvP, Open Pvp and Stpvp.
The Devs. sad early on that AoC wont be a “Murderbox”, there will be several systems in place to prevent people prevent people from going on killing sprees or gank players all day. That sad you can be sure that open world pvp wont be happening all the time, there will be situation where it will be but it wont be 24/7 because of what steven and the other devs sad concerning “Murderboxes” and there corruption system.
Which brings me to pvp, the game is setup so there will be times where you have to fight other players: Sieges, Caravans, and Events. The Game is setup so that you have to take part in it, there is a balance between pvp and pve in Ashes people should get use to it. So if your just going for PvE related content or just Open world pvp you might want to check out others games to be honest.
And the last thing i want to talk about is Structured PvP, meaning Arena based Pvp. People on the discord are already spreading the rumor u will be able to join an arena with the gear u get from crafting and so on. If thats the case Arenas will get boring really quick, because like in every other game that has a system like that the once who have the best gear will be on top. This doesnt mean those players have the best skill , it only means those players have more time to get the best gear. If you take any MMORGP with a Stpvp system that is based on Rank, MMR or Gearscore you will notice that Skill is more important and the once with better skill will climb higher than the others. GW2 is the best example for this; as soon as u enter the stpvp lounge everybody has acess to the same gear and so on. So unless the Dev. put in a Stpvp system the should leave arenas out of the game. I play gw2 a few times a week, and i still win 8/10 matches each time compared to my guildies that play every day for hours.
Sincerely
Giant</blockquote>
No, i´m not with you on this.
As long as you theoretically are allowed to kill anyone anywhere there will be 24/7 Open PvP. I promise you, i will study the "corruption system" and after that it will still be possible for me to PK players. Don´t get me wrong, i´m not a big fan of useless mass gank. I want to PK only people i´m sure to get a feedback in any form. What is a fine gank without a crying carebear? Someone who doesn´t care to be killed.... well, i´m not interested to kill ;)
You can also hire me as a sort of "bounty hunter". You won´t believe how many people in ArcheAge paid me and my crew gold and APEX only for mass ganking some of their own guild members they didn´t like. I will offer all my soul and corruption to the right price ;)
[/quote]
Indeed, it was the best system in an higher class MMORPG ever, even after the "re-design"
I hope i´m allowed to post this classic one here.
I loved doing this sooo much xD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EufqmDjMOBU
"well i get karma yes :D? -720 :D 1 hour to get -1 reputation :D and while killing mobs i got i idea to make someone suffer :D he saw me red oooo ye i will get green nick when i kill him i just killed one mob reputation to 0 :D and he just pk me :D"
Just amaaazing. And i swear to you, there will be those naughty methods in Ashes, too :)
[/quote]
As i said it´s some kind of bounty hunter, a player is paying me to kill someone he doesn´t like, there´s no UI or system needed for player interaction. That´s what MMORPGs were made for ... once upon a time.
I know that he stated that. And now please tell me only one MMORPG where you couldn´t undergo the karma/corruption call it whatever you like system. I also said that i hope the devs will find ways to change the systems, so i have to be creative to find other ways. And there will be other ways ^^
A real key from the get go are subscription models and strong ToS + EULA clauses with enforcement. You don't back that up with Banhammer, well you are asking for a mess. If Intrepid can make the Corruption System meaningful as well as community pressure with very rewarding Bounty Hunting. Maybe even some real Node citizenship issues that Leaders can apply, then it will be as good as it can be if you still want to allow RPK for banditry and small scale RPK stuff like claiming a farming area.[u] Just plz don't put rewarding Bounty Hunters into the hands of players. Don't let one or a few deaths remove great amounts of corruption. Those are pretty obvious loopholes.[/u] Relying largely on player groups to police these type of players is not very effective. I'll just throw that out there as a message from personal experience.
There is no 100% prevention and that's ok considering that Intrepid wants some small time RPK, there are multiple servers and there are large worlds. You do have to look out for yourself and be suspicious of strangers and bank often and and try to be grouped with others when "outside" consider if you want to just let the attacker take the corruption hit or flee or fight.
Gank4Fun is trolling in a way. He is trying to get a negative reaction and stir people up. I am hoping it just reinforces Intrepid to be more thorough as they put their system together.
If you can game the system, I don't really care. You should actually be rewarded for finding loopholes and creating an assassin guild within the confines of the system. The risk is definitely there, and the reward should be that much sweeter.
If people are getting upset, they should ban together and create a bounty hunter guild instead of relying on the devs to stomp out OWPVP. The devs already put the incentives for players, aka corruption = loot lost. So people can make a living on just hunting down corrupt players.
Gank4Fun is trolling in a way. He is trying to get a negative reaction and stir people up. I am hoping it just reinforces Intrepid to be more thorough as they put their system together.
[/quote]
No, i´m not trolling. And there are many players playing the style i play. They just don´t talk about these issues in public. In AA we had a guild specialized in PKing and as you can see in some reactions in this thread there could be a new home for PK lovers.
Good advice and might actually help somewhat depending on how you go about becoming a Bounty Hunter. Who can(sounded like it takes a certain type of Node), it isn't a joke i.e. I take my gear off and stow it then have my friend kill me and we split the coin reward, and a few other possible loopholes.
I will admit I have not yet played a game that had RPKs visible on the map, so that might make a significant difference. I have to admit that I have never seen an MMO where the player base is willing to spend most of their time being a type of "police force". Not for very long anyway. I hope that I am in for a surprise here.
The "elephant in the room" is that Intrepid WANTS some RPK style play to be possible and even rewarding. Because of that, they just can't/won't make it impossible or too unpleasant for those that want to be bandits-pirates-etc. to be able to operate. Finding that spot where a bandit can have "X" scores a day and "X+1" is getting to be too many is a real tough area to navigate. It's one powerful reason why there are almost always enough loopholes for these RPKforlulz guys to do their thing too.
Well said. It really does come down to incentivizing players to be that "police force" or even just having players hire other players for safety. If people find it dangerous to go out and harvest ores, they will hire guards = higher prices in the market for ores. Everything is intertwined so if the player base ignores protecting the gathering professions, they will end up paying for it down the road anyways.
oh and one death will not get rid of corruption either. it will take time to remove that label
oh and one death will not get rid of corruption either. it will take time to remove that label
[/quote]
So you get a friend to kill you and loot your corpse and return your gear unless the gear is destroyed.
[/quote]
Plus he still also gets the xp debt. I really don't think I have been wrapping my head around all of the cumulative wooes of being a RPKforlulz player. At least not ALL of them added together at the same time... Hmmmm....
So you get a friend to kill you and loot your corpse and return your gear unless the gear is destroyed.
[/quote]
That is one way of getting around... but there are many others.
And to be honest, there is always this one guy in a game who logs out instantly after he got PKed once. And i will find him and get him. Not that much corruption for me for that much fun ^^
[/quote]
That is one way of getting around… but there are many others.
And to be honest, there is always this one guy in a game who logs out instantly after he got PKed once. And i will find him and get him. Not that much corruption for me for that much fun ^^
[/quote]
You mean many other ways of getting around dealing with a corruption score that you already have? What could those be since that has not been explained yet? I am aware that there are usually ways to get characters killed so that you don't get any bad credit.
Hopefully anyone having "fun" against the same character enough times will get your account banned. That will be harder to recover from... ;)
[/quote]
I feel like we're forgetting the opposite type of griefing.. when someone decides to say "I'm not flagging so if you kill me you get consequences and since I'm not gonna flag I can just fuck with you all day long and the only way for you to stop me is to take the loss" if they make the consequences too strong then PvP in open world is just meaningless in the long run.. It is true that there are always going to be senseless gankers (Griefers) but there are also those who may exploit the system to gain advantage against Pkers (Def. looking at you BDO)
Of course if you have to run back from an incredibly long way away or deal with a long res timer or something, then perhaps it could be frustrating. If we get the opportunity to respond then I'll enjoy it very much.