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Class System Confusion
Alright, so I understand that when you get your secondary class that it will mix the new abilities with your main ones, but how far does this go? Do you get to choose what abilities from secondary mix with your main ones? Or perhaps it automatically gives your abilities attributes that pertain to the secondary as well as the primary?
Also, while we're at it, how do they plan to make the Ranger class different than the Rogue? The video they released shows the rogue using mostly a bow and arrow. Is that not what the Ranger will be based around?
Also, while we're at it, how do they plan to make the Ranger class different than the Rogue? The video they released shows the rogue using mostly a bow and arrow. Is that not what the Ranger will be based around?
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In regards to weapon use, I could be mistaken but I don't think they said any weapons are class locked (Don't quote me on that). I'm sure the amount of skills available via the Rogue vs Ranger in regards to bow use will still make the Ranger more proficient.
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Maybe that is because the rogue already has ranged as a second class. So it is not a good example of a rogue but of a rogue/ranger
I originally thought it would be one option for secondary class augment, or an advanced primary class augment choice. Now that they've stating doubling up may be thing that blows that idea out of the water.
As far as the Rogue/Ranger theme, both have often had a similar concept in fantasy over the years. In AoC it seems the Ranger will have benefits to being out in the wild (environment). I like that idea because it reminds me of playing Dragonrealms, a text based MUD from the 90s (still around in fact). Ranger characters got bonuses in the wild, while the Thief class got a bonus for being in "town" areas. While they were similar, they got their benefits from being in their particular locale, either town or the wild. There is still so much we have yet to see and learn about the archetypes, let alone the game as a whole. But it still looks promising.
As far as the any weapon thing, I believe I recalled them mentioning during a live stream that was something still "in discussion". In ESO, you can use any weapon and any armor type so it can work, but it isn't as easy as it sounds there, so I doubt it will be in AoC either. I wouldn't mind some limitations to it though, but then I'm an altoholic so I would make multiple characters with a variety of skills anyway.
I'm an altoholic. We are many. We are I.
I always assumed that secondary classes would gather skills that could be loaded onto the toolbar instead of primaries.
But they seem to be at pains to stress these are augments....not skills ?
So if they modify your primary skill.....you must be using your primary skill and only your primary skill.
So are augments more of a passive loadout rather than an active loadout ???
If they are passive modfiyers, that means you will only ever use primary skills.
They will just work differently, depending on pre-selected augments (be they secondary or racial).
Perhaps even the racial augments are in effect artesan skill augments ?
Has me all rather intrigued now :D
They have talked about branching roots that unlock.
If you can invest in individual skills to varying degrees....and unlocking is a choice.
There could be a whole host of secondary skills.
Doesnt mean 2x mage/mage will unlock or speck into the same skill tree components.
Thats the way I undestand it from bits and pieces of streams anyway.
Until they go into full blogs....we just dont know.
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I don't think that's what they're going for, teleport would be an augment effect for Rush which modifies how that skill behave, it shouldn't have it's own separate cooldown
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/class-system-confusion/#post-23072" rel="nofollow">dangerdalt wrote:</a></div>
it would be cool if you could have as many skill/augments as possible. You could have unaugmented skills and augmented skills on your skill bar. For example Rush and Teleport so you could rush the target and if the target runs away tele to them while rush is on cooldown. sort of like charge and shadowstep from WoW on 1 character. That closing distance tho
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I don’t think that’s what they’re going for, teleport would be an augment effect for Rush which modifies how that skill behave, it shouldn’t have it’s own separate cooldown
[/quote] true youd have to forgo the mage secondary and just go full fighter to keep rush as an ability. I guess what I mean is you choose what to augment a number of times but arnt limited to augmenting each skill 1 time with 1 of each augment. i.e youd have rush augmented 4 times. unless the secondary skill augments are sorted by categories and as you said no separate cd.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/class-system-confusion/#post-23072" rel="nofollow">dangerdalt wrote:</a></div>
it would be cool if you could have as many skill/augments as possible. You could have unaugmented skills and augmented skills on your skill bar. For example Rush and Teleport so you could rush the target and if the target runs away tele to them while rush is on cooldown. sort of like charge and shadowstep from WoW on 1 character. That closing distance tho
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I don’t think that’s what they’re going for, teleport would be an augment effect for Rush which modifies how that skill behave, it shouldn’t have it’s own separate cooldown
we don't know what theyre trying to do. there is no limit and could give you millions of skills lmao. These augments must be sorted by catergoy of skill type and particular skills form the different secondary class. Or if it is certain secondary augment skills that arnt primary skills at all they are just augments. we are all confused.
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There's a discord chat link in the discussion that also mentions that "soon" they will be doing video blogs about each class. They are just working the basics of each before they do those. Another thing to look forward to.
As far as the amount of skills, they haven't said yet, but did say there will be a good amount on your toolbar. But, you won't have 3 or 4 toolbars worth like other games do. I'm torn on that one myself. I like having toolbars with a variety of effects. I think CoH had a good amount of skills and bars for them when your basic set was 2 bars. But, I think like other games that have 3-5 that is too few. In this game, I could see 10 being a nice round number for a skillbar to use (Especially since we don't need to worry about the consoleers and their limited amount of buttons - having to choose 5 skills in ESO to use is really annoying).
I'm an Altoholic. We are many. We are I.
Quoting from the information sheets regarding classes:
<blockquote>What are you guys currently planning for progression?
Our player class advancement follows both a vertical progression in the traditional leveling sense, as well as a horizontal skill customization platform. When players start the game, they will be able to choose from 8 separate Archetypes. As the player progresses vertically with their primary class, they will have the opportunity to add a second class. This second class will be chosen again from the 8 archetypes, and will follow more of a horizontal progression. The second class will allow the player to augment their primary skills from their main class, with effects from their secondary class.
For example; A fighter has a skill called “Rush”, that allows him to rush towards a target and upon reaching the target, deals x damage with a chance to knock the target down. If that fighter were to choose Mage as his secondary archetype (Spellsword), he would gain access to certain augments that he could apply to his primary skill tree. Let’s use his Rush skill as an example; As a Spellsword, he could choose to apply a teleportation augment to the Rush skill, which would allow the skill to now teleport you to the target, eliminating the charge time on the skill. Each skill in the primary tree will have several augment options from your secondary tree. The secondary skill augment tree will follow a horizontal progression that will be expanded upon further in a developer’s blog.
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What are the advantages of choosing the same class for primary and secondary classes?
This situation is specifically for people who want to play a very particular role (ex: someone wanting to play a typical “tank” would double down on tank/tank). Having the same class for primary and secondary will further solidify the player in that role. A tank/tank would be full on damage mitigation versus a tank/rogue that may be more evasion tank based.
For example, you have a taunt skill that snaps aggro from something and increases your hate and brings the monster to you. If you go tank/tank you may have an augment that allows your to modify your taunt that adds a reflection shield as long as the taunt skill is active, which damages the monster based on how hard it’s hitting the player.
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Also regarding the Predator video, the character featured in it is a Rogue/Ranger, meaning it's a Rogue with a Ranger augmentations.
The amount is insane if its everything which makes me believe they won't do that. Say classes have 30 skills. To do 1 class, you have 30 x 30 = 900 combinations that can be implemented and thats 1 class. Have 8 classes, thats 7200 combinations total for entire game. Thats just secondary classes. That doesn't take into account racial or religion aspects that have been said going to be able to add.
Also if you have 1 secondary skill on skill A, can you add the same secondary skill on skill B?
I guess we will have to wait and see how the game develops
The amount is insane if its everything which makes me believe they won’t do that. Say classes have 30 skills. To do 1 class, you have 30 x 30 = 900 combinations that can be implemented and thats 1 class. Have 8 classes, thats 7200 combinations total for entire game. Thats just secondary classes. That doesn’t take into account racial or religion aspects that have been said going to be able to add.
Also if you have 1 secondary skill on skill A, can you add the same secondary skill on skill B?
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Not even the Devs know that yet. Jeff Bard said yesterday in the twitch QandA stream that have have hundreds of ideas for class skills, and are in the process of trying to decide which ones to actually implement into the game, and that's just for the primary classes, let alone the augments available through the secondary classes.
Sorry if someone else has already answered the question; the character in that video was Ranger/Rogue. It was at its core a ranged character that picked up the sneaky abilities of a rogue; what all abilities were affected, dunno. But they referred to that character class mix as a "Predator."
[quote quote=23214]Also regarding the Predator video, the character featured in it is a Rogue/Ranger, meaning it’s a Rogue with a Ranger augmentations.[/quote]
Just saw this; you sure it's Rogue/Ranger and not Ranger/Rogue? I thought that's what they'd said. Anyway ... very cool build :-)
One of the things that I foresee, which I hope won't last long, is people coming new into the game with the ubiquitous question of "What's the best build for blah-blah-blah?" May I state that I personally hate that questions? That old Min/Max mindset ... when you have so many opportunities to try and build that <em>perfect character</em> for yourself, why limit yourself to what someone else thinks is nifty?
I think the original question was about how we apply the augmentations.
That does not happen automatically. The primary skill we plan to augment will have a few options from the secondary skills...so that Rush from the Fighter example would have a couple of other options besides just Teleport.
I have not heard whether the Teleport augment could be applied to multiple primary skills.
I'm tired of games have all 1-3 classes cause it's the best. I hope they keep the the skill and utility very broad making every class viable in their own way and that they pay attention to how each Level progressing so it's not a land slide for certain ones.
I haven't paid attention to people asking what the best build is.
What I typically encounter is answering a call for help from a group and then being told I need to change my spec or change my gear.
I'm hoping that AoC won't be so focused on killing stuff that we'll be able to build our characters as we see fit without pressure from other players.
I have a feeling, though that there will be groups pressuring people to double up on classes and skills, so that the Fighter/Fighter will have Rush/Rush instead of aFighter/mage with Rush/Teleport. or a Tank/Tank will have Taunt/Taunt instead of a Tank/Rogue having Taunt/Invisibility.
I’m tired of games have all 1-3 classes cause it’s the best. I hope they keep the the skill and utility very broad making every class viable in their own way and that they pay attention to how each Level progressing so it’s not a land slide for certain ones.
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The devs have said previously that they intend for each class to be useful depending on the circumstances. How they will do that I don't know but they are clearly aware of the min/max problem and intend to combat it. Also in terms of the PvP they say it will be more of a rock-paper-scissors deal with certain classes being better against some classes and weak against others. Again we can only speculate on how they will actually do this and hopefully get the balance right.
Which is why we had the quadrality in PnP RPGs.
Our guild has long held that the "best build" is the one that suits each player's playstyle. I hope you find many more people with that sentiment; it makes for much more fun, when everyone feels they've found that perfect fit.
[quote quote=24001]it will be more of a rock-paper-scissors deal with certain classes being better against some classes and weak against others[/quote]
That's old-school, there; once upon a time, no one thought that every class must be able to counter every other class. It was understood, for instance, in WoW that rogues & mages were each others' Achilles Heels, as long as the right circumstances permitted. Then folk started screaming cuz they couldn't just roflstomp every single class, and "balance" came into the picture ... and well, we know pretty much what's ensued, since.