Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Consumption of Crafted Items
I absolutely LOVE that there’s lots of talk of crafting and how important it will be in Ashes… there are plenty of threads filled with awesome ideas, hopes and dreams about how it can work… BUT! There’s one aspect of crafting that isn’t getting a ton of attention, though I think it’s maybe even more important: consumption of the goods we as players produce!
First, we know that Steven and Jeff talked about item decay and breakage, so there is a continual need for crafted items or at least, crafters. I’d be interested to know if this means an item “can” break, or an item “will” break. I think the answer to that has big implications for crafting. Even if players can “repair” these items so a certain extent, and to a depreciating degree, it prolongs the existence of the item in the economy (meaning it doesn’t have to be ‘replaced’ which is typically the crafter’s purpose in life :)
Maybe even more than that, though, is the potential breadth of consumption. This has always been the problem with MMO crafting - you have to make 100 swords no one wants, because there simply aren’t that many players that need them! Even on a server with 10,000 players where 10% of them make swords, there’s a whole lot of swords that sill go to waste, I think. There is never going to be a player need that the players themselves cannot easily keep up with (unless breakage occurs so frequently that it becomes a different kind of gameplay all together!)
To mitigate this, I feel like there almost has to be a simulation behind the scenes… in simplest terms, players can’t be the only consumers of crafted items. We need NPCs buying goods, too. Even if they’re not physically present in the game world, there should be NPCs that exist at least at the simulation level.
Let’s do a quick example - In the case of a metropolis, there might be several hundred NPCs (or more) but even at that number, it would only be a representative slice of the actual population of consumers that live and work in the metropolis. It feels like a metropolis of the size they were might hold several hundred thousand. So that many NPCs — even it they don’t really exist — would have to be served by crafters of all manner.
In another example, let’s say an inn in the city (maybe there are 5 or 6 inns for the whole metropolis) would have daily needs for supplies based on the population of the metropolis. Perhaps an inn needs a standing order of 50 cases of corn each day].They also need 10 kegs of beer a day, each… and so on. Player crafters and merchants can fill these work orders, so beyond just crafting and trying to sell to players, there’s a real need to supply the world on every front. And not rely solely on supplying players.
I think only in this way can we overcome the glut of crafted items, even with breakage.
Would love to hear your thoughts!
edit: I am so sorry for the long post. I tried to use fewer words! Maybe next time no vowels.
First, we know that Steven and Jeff talked about item decay and breakage, so there is a continual need for crafted items or at least, crafters. I’d be interested to know if this means an item “can” break, or an item “will” break. I think the answer to that has big implications for crafting. Even if players can “repair” these items so a certain extent, and to a depreciating degree, it prolongs the existence of the item in the economy (meaning it doesn’t have to be ‘replaced’ which is typically the crafter’s purpose in life :)
Maybe even more than that, though, is the potential breadth of consumption. This has always been the problem with MMO crafting - you have to make 100 swords no one wants, because there simply aren’t that many players that need them! Even on a server with 10,000 players where 10% of them make swords, there’s a whole lot of swords that sill go to waste, I think. There is never going to be a player need that the players themselves cannot easily keep up with (unless breakage occurs so frequently that it becomes a different kind of gameplay all together!)
To mitigate this, I feel like there almost has to be a simulation behind the scenes… in simplest terms, players can’t be the only consumers of crafted items. We need NPCs buying goods, too. Even if they’re not physically present in the game world, there should be NPCs that exist at least at the simulation level.
Let’s do a quick example - In the case of a metropolis, there might be several hundred NPCs (or more) but even at that number, it would only be a representative slice of the actual population of consumers that live and work in the metropolis. It feels like a metropolis of the size they were might hold several hundred thousand. So that many NPCs — even it they don’t really exist — would have to be served by crafters of all manner.
In another example, let’s say an inn in the city (maybe there are 5 or 6 inns for the whole metropolis) would have daily needs for supplies based on the population of the metropolis. Perhaps an inn needs a standing order of 50 cases of corn each day].They also need 10 kegs of beer a day, each… and so on. Player crafters and merchants can fill these work orders, so beyond just crafting and trying to sell to players, there’s a real need to supply the world on every front. And not rely solely on supplying players.
I think only in this way can we overcome the glut of crafted items, even with breakage.
Would love to hear your thoughts!
edit: I am so sorry for the long post. I tried to use fewer words! Maybe next time no vowels.
0
Comments
Maybe the act of selling my scimitars to the Guards and Soldiers is that they get stronger. Perhaps they increase in their NPC level which would make it more difficult for other players to take over my city.
Is that the kind of thing you're thinking about? This could be a pretty cool way for crafters to have a direct impact on the world besides the player-driven economy.
It would be great to have NPCs who is willing to buy all the stuff and use of services as you said.
I have play the game with crafting as you describe and to increase my level of crafting I have to make lot's of useless products. Like if there is someone who can already make High quality sword for lv.20 players, why should most people want to buy low quality swords from new players. When this happen the players who can make lower quality products will not have the buying power for resources to make more products to raise their level. They have to chip in their earning from somewhere else to get the resources they want.
But then the players who can make high quality products they will keep buying resources from the market too, thus raising the price of resources, so the lower quality products maker will not be able to stay in market.
I myself in another game have make 30-40 same swords which I can't sell even a single one since another players craft better quality swords than mine. As a result they are like garbage to me and since I can't sell them, I have to go around mining for resources myself as I don't have money to buy resources, but then higher level players keep getting higher and higher level since they buy everything they want and keep crafting better and better products. As a new player I gave up crafting completely after a while.
Also places like Inn or tavern, although it is a good idea that they give boost too stats and such, with just a few of them around some of them will be left out. Also many players wouldn't care about going into them since a bit of a stats boost wouldn't affect much in real battle in which they have to fight in groups and go on for hours. So I don't think most food sell in them will go out a lot.
Then not many purchases and not high enough customers(players) for each of the tavern and Inn, they will keep piling up on food too.
Also same for new players food products too, if there are 30 Tavern in town, after looking around, most players would rather go to the tavern that provide high quality food rather than low quality tavern since the Benefit shouldn't be able to stacks. This will make lower quality tavern out of business.
It would be great that there are NPCs who go around the city purchasing up these unwanted products to help the economy growth instead of having them as garbage.
But there is also another sync.
Monster incursion that attack a city should also plunder the resources of that node.
That way they can go back in to the raw material gathering loop.
Not only that, that plunder can also be used to provide recompense for corrupt players working for corrupt monsters.
So you generate an eternal cycle or closed system.
Such players could never show there face in society again.
I also like the votive offering system to return goods and activate new raw materials nodes in return.
That does not benefit the player.....it benefits the node/community/players
Wow, I love your idea. I hope someone really does bring this up to the devs.
Example: The Garrison Captain gives out a quest to arm his troop. His order is 1000 common swords and 1000 common shields. Anyone can take this quest. The monetary reward isn't amazing, the gold gain probably just enough to cover the cost and time. But the real perk would be EXP, city defense + and even reputation towards the city or NPC!
During siege and war, there might be a quota for all players to create 100,000 common sword. As a city, everyone will contribute, there could be a leaderboard of who donates the most sword that would give special rewards the higher you go up. At the end, if the city meets the quota, city gains +1000 NPC's and bonus defense to the city!
This goes beyond blacksmith, making food for the city, creating clothing, alchemy and furniture, everything can have an impact on the city and be rewarding for crafters to have quest lines outside of exploration.
However it didn't solve the problem of players wanting better quality items from advanced players instead of new players. The new players will have very difficult time finding any buyers since everyone will want same weapons but higher quality rather than low quality.
To add to this a bit I feel when having npcs at your node that need things it would be good to have their need randomized- so you can't just sell to them every day the same batch. Instead, they want different things on different days or maybe nothing at all that day, that way we as players are not abusing the system if it gives xp or money.
Also, maybe the captain you sold to normally doesn't need anything but knows of another captain at another near by node that needs that stuff and wants you to send a caravan to supply them.
It should also influence your (faction) so to speak, if your a known pker they won't accept your goods so more incentive to be a good citizen rather then a pker everywhere you go.
While I'm under no illusion this is the path AoC will take in full, I think it would help go a long way to keeping crafting alive long term for the game.
Otherwise, and I know that break-even is not really a Reward, yet it still kinda is to have a way to dispose of useless stock and there isn't any Risk involved in selling to the City Guard Captain.
Had another thought/question, if you wall don't mind :)
We know we have decay of items, but will we have perishability of food-type items? It stands to reason we would, but I don't know if it's been talked about.
And perishability doesn't simply have to mean an economic sink - there's a lot of gameplay to be had, for example, in getting the freshest fish to market or the ripest tomatoes to local chefs, especially if those values have an impact on processing or crafting :)
That way we can save more Iron bars for further crafting for every player. In case you can't sell an item too, instead of leaving it abandoned in some storage, you could melt it and craft another weapon/item that you can sell.
My point is, I'm not sure how irrelevant your regular joe crafter is going to be.
What route are most people on here are thinking of going, jack of all trade or specialist.
I don't think that with only 10 customers the crafters can do much each day.
Also as said earlier, if you see 100 crafters producing the same example mythril swords. Why would you want to buy the swords from the other 99 crafters if you see that one of the crafter is making the best mythril swords.
In my other game (About 2-3 years ago that I play) my village got about 40 players inside with 3 crafters (including me). I never sell anything at all because one of the guy can make better quality stuff than me. So what I did is I kept making crate after crate storing the items I make to level up and sell nothing, after a while I stop making crate and throw all items I make on the floor instead since they are garbage. Even items I put in the store outside the village, when I look the other guy have outside buyers from time to time while I just kept there like garbage. In the end I gave up crafting and go pure PVE instead since having more than 1 crafter seems useless.
If there is a function to buy up every players products by the NPCs it would be great, so players wouldn't be making garbage products and throw everywhere all the time, and they can also earn money. The dismantling I think is a great idea too, but still the lower level crafters would still end up with no money if no buyer want their products.
Thats why you will choose which points to allocate into what with your artesan tree.
Unique items signed by you...because you are different, the stuff you make is different.
There might be 100 people crafting mythril swords, but there won't be 100 people crafting the same mythril swords.
Racial differences, resource differences ( they won't be 100% mythril) and component differences. Expect enchantments on the swords as well. Probably also durability differences.
So you go to the people who will provide you exactly what you want, when you want it - those with whom you have a relationship and who may give you discounts, etc.
If your usual crafter's caravan gets destroyed, you may not be able to get repairs or replacements from that crafter when you want them. Or you may have a quest which requires a different type of sword made from resources the mythril crafters don't have.
Typically, I only trade with NPCs because players are too greedy.
Seems to me that a player who can't give out free gear is ignoring social media.
Hardcore players might be focused on paying for the most uber weapons - but there are plenty of casuals who will pick up decent weapons for free. Especially in a game with gear decay. Casuals tend not to care about having uber gear.
But, that's what twitch and youtube and discord are for... communicating with people who will play the way you like to play.
I think the problem is that typically players can only make a subset of gear.
And a player can make that subset of gear themselves.
Although, it's generally easier just to buy the gear you need or grab decent gear from quests and drops.
If drops and quest rewards are just materials and NPCs aren't selling gear, players have to craft the gear.
And that means Adventurers will be going to crafters for gear.
"This shady figure buys equipment from crafters and redistributes it to the mobs and chests of Albion, who in turn drop the equipment to players in Albion. Do not be fooled, as this NPC is not your typical merchant with an infinite demand: All buy orders from the Black Market are based on the amount of mobs that are killed in PvE.
This new feature has several benefits. First of all it allows us to add cool drops to the PvE of Albion Online, without taking away from the player-driven economy. All equipment is once again player-crafted! "
This is a really interesting idea. I can't help but imagine how different the auction house in GW2 would be if you could sell bulk orders to leaders.
I also can't help but think about Banished where you would stockpile tools, clothing, and processed items and how the villagers would constantly need to replenish those items which broke.
Anyways, there really needs to be a balance between items created and destroyed. Having NPCs need to buy supplies is a great balance. Inns needing food, ingredients, beer, and furniture; doctors needing herbs, poultices, and bandages; farmers needing feed and tools; crafters needing tools; civilians needing food and clothing; etc. Having NPC part of the demand should keep any and all crafters busy. The only other alternative to messing with demand is messing with supply. However, making crafted items a long and tedious thing is not as encouraging.
</blockquote>
Both, they drop items, raw materials and currency. At least that's what they've said.
But, I don't recall mention of mobs dropping items other than gold...and even wolves won't drop gold.
I expect we can find items in treasure chests - but, I'm thinking that would actually be stashed in a lair rater than dropped when a mob is defeated.
Do you have a link or a dev quote for that??
Thanks!
I wolf will drop skin/meat but not armour/wepaons/gold
An ogre might well have weapons trinkets and such.
A bandit might have anything and everything.