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Stats that are meaningful

I want all stats to have a specific use rather than only useful for one class. What i mean by this is(list to follow)

Strength- effects our ability to carry more, and swing heavier weapons( yes i want weapons to have a weight and you need a certain str to wield it)
Stamina- overall health and the ability to perform actions for longer periods( sprinting , forging and the like)
Agility- effects how quickly you can wield weapons
Reflex- how much you can dodge
Wisdom- casting speed and any lore based learning if there is any
Intelligence- Power of you spells and how quickly you can learn other languages and the like

So different classes would focus on different sets of skills. Fighter would be Str/Sta/Agi based, Mages would be Wis/Int/Sta based, you get the picture. But every class would need to invest in all stats to be effective over all. I feel this would allow far more customization of your character and open up many avenues for further Development

Comments

  • Good idea very similar to Lord of the Rings, while every class focuses on a particular skill, for instance Hunters is agility, all the other stats do benefit you.
  • Stats are always meaningful to all classes, it just so happens they aren't equally so. That's how the whole MMO group dynamic works.

    Someone focuses on defensive stats, someone focuses on ranged/melee physical offensive stats, someone for ranged/melee magical offensive and then someone for support.

    Every stat is still needed by everyone but not to the same extent.
  • ^^ Not really, usually theres a stat that will increase say mana regen, which is totally useless to everyone except casters for instance. But in LOTRO there's a very class specific stat thats say good for casters for other classes it does something different. Every stat does something different for each class. It's nice because as I play a Hunter I need agility, but I may pick up an item that has no agility stat but say gives me "out of combat" regen, but the same item for a caster, that same stat would give say "in combat, mana regen".
  • There are games where you never need to put a single point into any other stat than the one you class focuses on. ESO does this, i can be a magicka sorc and never put a single point into health or stamina. i can be a stamina templar and never put a single point into Magicka or health.

    The argument I was attempting to make is that each stat has to have a discreet use. it will add to have to make choices in the game and therefore customize your character differently that others customize their characters. By discreet i mean only strength will affect my ability to carry items, only stamina will affect how far i can carry those items .

    Stats can also be wighted to affect us in a myriad of way to make the game more dynamic and our choices more important.
  • Your stats use to be called attributes.
    You put attribute points into attributes to define your build.
    Some attribute spreads were available as preset options...called...a class.

    In spirit I agree with you.
    At one time games use to be based on distribution of attribute points.
    Spending all your points in one would sacrifice all others.
    Thus making you a specialist.

    Somewhere along the ages and evolution of games.
    All that intrinsic meaning and natural autonomous balance was lost.
    The game world just seemed to drift away from balanced hyrbids to specialist godmodes.
    Will we ever return ?
    Players wanted godmode in single player games.
    They appear to expect it in multiplayer PvE too.
    But when you start going to the massive mutiplayer and community based games and even PvP,
    you then realise how badly you have messed that balance up.

    You could simply have a attribute stats for
    mass vector velocity energy
    That gives you 2^4 balance combinations to define secondary effects like
    physical force = mass & velocity
    magical force = energy & velocity
  • [quote quote=25016] I want all stats to have a specific use rather than only useful for one class. What i mean by this is(list to follow)

    Strength- effects our ability to carry more, and swing heavier weapons( yes i want weapons to have a weight and you need a certain str to wield it)
    Stamina- overall health and the ability to perform actions for longer periods( sprinting , forging and the like)
    Agility- effects how quickly you can wield weapons
    Reflex- how much you can dodge
    Wisdom- casting speed and any lore based learning if there is any
    Intelligence- Power of you spells and how quickly you can learn other languages and the like

    So different classes would focus on different sets of skills. Fighter would be Str/Sta/Agi based, Mages would be Wis/Int/Sta based, you get the picture. But every class would need to invest in all stats to be effective over all. I feel this would allow far more customization of your character and open up many avenues for further Development

    [/quote]

    In D&D stats are already meaningful and in every other MMORPG out there. The PROBLEM is that normally a class like a Ranger will always have Dex or Agi stat as their primary stat and nothing else and that is because we streamline MMORPGs not to worry about other stats. You dont have stats that help you with Saving throws or anything like that. What they should really do with stats is just allow for a few points to be added as you level up and only have a point here or there on gear. This way the game pushes more skill than Gear or Class Builds. If you take the damage from 2 characters of the same class and just have a 1% or 2% difference, skill will play a major role in combat vs gear/class builds. Which is good because it allows players to play the way they want vs having cookie cutter builds.
  • I'm all for having stats that are very meaningful - but for non-role based functions, more utility functions such as carry-weight, running speed, perhaps an ability to recognize foes at a greater distance, etc.

    <blockquote>But every class would need to invest in all stats to be effective over all.</blockquote>
    When stats are tied directly to class role functions that theory never works out in practice. Players create lopsided stat-spiked builds that break the game balance.
  • I'd like stats like Physical Strength, Agility, Spiritual Strength and Mental Acumen.

    All four of these would be divided into substats that contribute to the main stat but the four stats have benchmarks that allow you to do things with different armor based on you wear.

    Like a high agility rogue with ok physical strength could leap over people like the Castian dodge from Tera if their wearing leather but can't in anything heavier.

    Spiritual strength and mental acumen could let mages or clerics hover over water or quickly dodge away by pushing themselves magically.
  • *MaxSTRWizard casts Fist!
    *Critical!
    *Everyone has died!

    But in all seriousness I do prefer games where the primary source of your attribute points are on the character rather than on the gear, I think that gear should offer modifiers to the character's stats rather than offering stats directly.

    I also think that it's probably wiser that if one goes with that system then: Most of the attribute points are allocated automatically with a few 'discretionary' points being given each level so as to prevent people making lopsided builds that are either OP or absolutely bricking their character.
  • I am totally okay with the Certain archetype focusing on a specific stat. What i would like to see is having all attributes having a meaning and a use so focusing one 1 over all the others may be a detriment to your character. So yes if MaxSTRWizard casts Fist! and kills a room full of people if he cant carry any of the loot because he is to weak or if he can only walk at 1 MPH to get that loot home that would be detrimental.

    I also want to see many viable options for builds to make them more personal to you.
  • I think the most import parts is those archetypal stats are opposites and mutually balanced.
    So increasing one that gives weapon power, reduces the one that gives shield protection.
    There must be risk vs reward.
    There must be penalties to go with buffs.
  • Personally, I have two requirements for my games. First is that I have the ability to fully hybridize my class. That means something similar to ESO; I have a Sorcerer(ess) who can wear plate and wield a 2h weapon, because the option exists. She's still a sorc because, duh, lightning! But she can choose whether she's a battlemage or an offhealer or whatever; must like real life.

    The second requirement is that a game stringently avoids trying to force cookie-cutters. Players will come up with enough of that crap on their own; too many people who don't want to bother actually LEARNING the class, and just want the "BEST BUILD FOR XYZ!". That's fine and well; they pay their money just as I pay mine. But I left WoW for a little over four years when they launched Cata and I could no longer hybridize my classes. I dive back in now and again, but I still spit and splutter every time I'm faced with the ruin that my Priest has become, from what she was when I originally developed her. So, yeah, players, do what you want, but devs? Please keep intact my ability to have options.
  • The reason those type of "attribute" based games have gone away is because they were annoying and hard to balance, and tended to force people into certain classes if they wanted to be able to do certain things. For instance, why should I have to either gimp myself and pump strength as a caster, archer, assassin (whatever class doesn't use it) simply so I can carry the same amount as a warrior, knight, whatever class uses strength as their primary stat?
  • I appeciate when all stats do stuff for your character but it shouldnt be overly complicated...

    I do like the idea of weapons requiring a certain threshold of stats to be used...but essentially the same effect can be reached by making the weapon require a certain level. Unless you made stats trainable and seperate from the players level, then it really would be different.
  • I will say that in general I do like when there is strategy to a character development.

    I would, though, note that this is only fun up to a degree. There is a point when everything just becomes so complex that instead of fun it becomes tiresome and unnecessary.

    One must care not to cross this fine line. :)
  • I've played wow for 11 years

    I like the stats base armor ,but then I dont like it because it will limit you to a certain thing example in

    World of warcraft Hunter at lvl 40 unlocks mail he has to wear all mail or well hes just bad lol................................

    Moving on

    There isn't much customization their because its only all mail ( and their only so much mail items in the game )
    you cant really wear the gear you want to wear if you want to be good at the game

    However I like it because it sets a ground floor so a hunter won't need a plate item! because its not for their class and so on

    So im little conflicted personally

    Customization is always nice but I wouldn't want to see a ranger wearing all plate because in my opinion it be weird because he be slow wearing all that plate armor

    in my head as a ranger you want to kite your enemy's

    Kite = luring your enemy's as you run and shoot them from a distance
  • i'm not a fan of the STR,DEX,INT type of stats as they don't make sense.

    More Strenght doesn't makes you a better fighter, actually to much muscle mass hinders movement!
    What has Dexterity to do with archery? you need strength to pull the string of a 100 pound bow, not the ability to move like a snake.
    Intelligence....that one makes sense ...kinda

    yeah...

    i would go for something different, also in a way that makes every stat interesting for every class, similar to pillars of eternity, but different

    For the 3 Main Stats i would do something like

    <strong>Fitness</strong>- the typical warrior stat, affecting how much you endure and how long you can keep up the pressure before being fatigued.
    <em>HP, Resources, Crit Damage</em>

    <strong>Knowledge </strong>- The typical mage stat, affecting how much you know about stuff. For rangers the knowledge about the animals and beast, for clerics the knowledge of injuries and diseases and how to heal them and so on.
    <em>Crit Chance, Healing Power</em>

    <strong>Skill </strong>- the typical rogue stat, the overall proficiency of what you do. skillful mages may cast multiple fireball instead of one, a skillful fighter dodges his opponent, a ranger hits further away targets more easily.
    <em>Parry/Dodge Chance, Hit Chance, Attack Speed</em>

    that's just my idea right now that i pulled out of my head
  • I think we bamboozle each other with labels when what counts is their actual function.
  • i'm not a fan of the STR,DEX,INT type of stats as they don't make sense.

    More Strenght doesn't makes you a better fighter, actually too much muscle mass hinders movement!
    What has Dexterity to do with archery? you need strength to pull the string of a 100 pound bow, not the ability to move like a snake.
    Intelligence....that one makes sense ...kinda

    yeah...

    i would go for something different, also in a way that makes every stat interesting for every class, similar to pillars of eternity, but different

    For the 3 Main Stats i would do something like

    <strong>Fitness</strong>- the typical warrior stat, affecting how much you endure and how long you can keep up the pressure before being fatigued.
    <em>HP, Resources, Crit Damage</em>

    <strong>Knowledge </strong>- The typical mage stat, affecting how much you know about stuff. For rangers the knowledge about the animals and beast, for clerics the knowledge of injuries and diseases and how to heal them and so on.
    <em>Crit Chance, Healing Power</em>

    <strong>Skill </strong>- the typical rogue stat, the overall proficiency of what you do. skillful mages may cast multiple fireball instead of one, a skillful fighter dodges his opponent, a ranger hits further away targets more easily.
    <em>Parry/Dodge Chance, Hit Chance, Attack Speed</em>



    just my 2 cents
  • Requiring strength to use heavy armor would make a certain measure of sense. But anyone should be able to wear a robe. And possibly leather like armors might require a small contribution from both strength and agility. To me that is realistic. May not seem to make for easy balancing but I think it could. I'd prefer they allow a limited amount of stat points that can be used however players want. You could go for the min of say 10 strength. . And you won't even be able to use leather.. Unless of course you find armor down the road that has an enchantment to strength. But the drawback might be that items that roll with strength, are items that are 'less' likely to roll with other stats.

    However handling a larger weight burden when it comes to inventory space in my view should be just left equal to all, since the number of hands would be a much more significant measure of one's ability to carry things. Since most people have two hands, it is just reasonable. Also don't forget, since a high strength character is usually going to have heavy armor anyway to take up that extra availability, it balances out. The argument would be if one wants to be naked, so that they can be a mule, and carry more stuff from time to time. . Debatable I guess, but worth investing in that functionality.. I don't think so myself.
  • I don't know if anyone played Anarchy Online but they had an attribute system that i would kind of like to see in this game. You invested in your primary stats and they blended together to affect all other skills. so most of your mage type skills would use varying degrees of INT and PSY. your overall mana pool would be based off of Int and Psy as well. Overall health would be based off of stam . I personally think giving us this kind of system with periodic respec all stats would be the way to go.
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