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PvP Drop Mechanics

I think that this should be Implemented: gear dropped by corrupted players should be bind on account/server, gear dropped by combatants freely tradeable, and lastly no gear dropped by non-combatants.
Mitigating the experience of ganking for green players is most important and this is the easiest way mechanically to achieve that.

This could and should only be implemented outside of areas that automatically flag the player for pvp as it would provide an extra layer of risk vs reward and merge more "pillars of the mmorpg" into these scenarios; additionally, bounty hunter(s) should be given the option of whether or not to engage with red player(s) and be subjected to the same risk as a combatant if they are killed by a red player (In this system the combat effectiveness debuff should only apply to red players that have ganked significantly lower level green players). The gear loss should be capped at one piece per corrupted or combatant death and the player should respawn at a fixed location for any open world death like they discussed in their livestream with Aggelos.

The system that I've proposed is the most conceivable means of providing risk vs reward in open world PvP (for those that want to participate) with the addition of just one more feature: Red players should ONLY receive a slight XP multiplier* when they kill a green player (depending on the lvl gap), and the green players should ONLY receive negative XP. The XP multiplier would last 24 hours (even after cleansing corruption) and the red player should lose the XP multiplier upon death. If you have any concerns please address them.

*This reward is more versatile in that it has much more utility than crafting materials and, if the corrupted pvper kills a combatant, they may also recieve a piece of gear that they could dismantle into crafting materials.

Comments

  • Its been stated that players don't drop gear in pvp, only corrupted players have a chance of gear loss and its not dropped just destroyed, however combatants and non combatants can drop crafting materials
  • Ok so tell me which person is going to carry crafting materials while he has pvp in mind?
  • probably the one who was out gathering and got attacked by a random player
  • <blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/pvp-drop-mechanics/#post-26559">McCheese wrote:</a></div>probably the one who was out gathering and got attacked by a random player

    </blockquote>

    This guy is right not everyone will have pvp in mind mate.
  • To me, it seems that small scale RPVP has lots of "stick" and almost no "carrot". Can't wait to see what Intrepid does with this as they repeatedly state that all things will have rewards. That all Risk will have appropriate Rewards.

    I am not a big fan of RPK. I always get pissed when I get caught in it with a toon that is crap at PVP but in the grand sense of things, I know that it is essential for this kind of game. What I can't really see, so far, is much reward for RPK players. Just lots of hard "stick".
  • I do think however there's a lot to be said of the player base that like high risk PVP , meaning we will see lots of corrupted players that want to attract attention and Gage in small scale PVP. Especially with the bounty system their implementing, small scale PVP will be viable. I think that's what Intrepid meant by risk having appropriate rewards.

    But for the gatherer of materials, they should always feel that they might be jumped from a "predator class" or who ever, maybe they should quest or gather with a buddy or group.
  • <blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/pvp-drop-mechanics/#post-26585">Bringslite wrote:</a></div>To me, it seems that small scale RPVP has lots of “stick” and almost no “carrot”. Can’t wait to see what Intrepid does with this as they repeatedly state that all things will have rewards. That all Risk will have appropriate Rewards.

    I am not a big fan of RPK. I always get pissed when I get caught in it with a toon that is crap at PVP but in the grand sense of things, I know that it is essential for this kind of game. What I can’t really see, so far, is much reward for RPK players. Just lots of hard “stick”.

    </blockquote>

    I know a lot of people that need no other incentive than just the kill, and the green player will still accrue negative experience; sometimes this, and the chaos it could cause, would be reward enough.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited January 2018
    S
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited January 2018
    H
  • Please do NOT have a gear drop on death for those who want open world pvp. This should ONLY be allowed if the player is allowed to reclaim their gear via repairs, getting back to their body, etc WITHOUT permanently losing it. You wanna kill your game fast? Thats one way you do it, never should you ever put a system in anywhere where you can permanently lose your gear especially if you want PvPers to stay active in any sense at all. Stopping experience gain, making you an outlaw for a certain time, etc are perfectly fine. But gear being destroyed forever/stolen by others is the most BS thing ever. Don't turn this into another Korean grindfest like the let down that BDO was. I mean seriously, if they are really thinking of putting in stat debuffs why the hell should there also be gear drop? As if it wasn't enough you've gimped a player completely so anybody could destroy them no matter the skill involved. If this gets implemented they might as well rip off the open world PVP label completely. Don't coddle players, they aren't babies, you shouldn't put in open world pvp if your only gonna completely destroy the aspect for people who want to do it.
  • No. The gear SHOULD drop, by but red players only -> thats how I think they said it's going to work and that's how it should work in my opinion.

    When you want to PvP in Open World you attack player B. If player B fights back and you kill him, you are not flagged for gear loss after that. and you lose nothing/.
    But if you kill a person who does not wish to combat you and doesnt fight back at all, you have a chance for a gear loss when someone kills you after that. and you get stats penalty for some time.
    That's fair, from my PVE-player perspective.
    Sure' I'll want to participate in PvP like protecting caravans or sieges, but I certainly do not wish to be ganked by some blood thirsty trolls that are 20 lvls higher every tim when Im out there to walk in the forest.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited January 2018
    I
  • The system I've proposed would create a constant demand for gear (with minimal individual impact from gear loss), that would make specialists relevant at all levels of gameplay, to virtually every member of the server*. Perhaps a trader could purchase materials for a crafter or a stealer could pilfer various things or they could both skip the middle man and seek out whole pieces of gear themselves. The pvper may not have to participate in these different playstyles but they would have to be supported by them. PvP Drop Mechanics could make player interactions among the different playstyles more significant and more meaningful.

    *not to say that generalists: pvers/crafters/traders/stealers couldn't support the PvP aspect of their playstyles themselves.
  • If the dial system is anything like I think it is,
    with the addition of this system, it would give relevance to the pursuit of evermore gear without implementing RNG*; even in late-game.

    *with the ability to dismantle gear into materials that can make more than just gear.
  • Sussurro,

    Crafting is my all time favorite thing. Crafting AND trading the results, that is. Not sure what a "perfect system" to encourage that is but I do like most of the elements(if not all) of your idea.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited February 2018
    @Bringslite, I think the dial system is a gradient (that the crafter controls) which allows them to change the properties of their gear (weapons; i.e. damage, reach/range, durability, speed). They have a set amount that they can allocate, pointing at one or more of these properties; hence "dial". They would have predetermined stats that the crafter could select depending on their crafting level and the level of the gear. An enchanter could add additional stats on top of the crafted stat providing a community driven variance that would replace RNG and be way more fun and engaging.
  • I am hoping for full loot or partial loot when killed. Even if its just random percentage of gear lost. This is good for pvp'rs and crafters. damaged gear and looting enables reward for pvp and the ability to make a crafter viable.

    No loot is boring as hell and does not reward the open world pvp. I do like a bounty system in place to control people from griefing. Policing the game with player pvp is a win win, pvpr's get pvp, crafters have the chance to craft stolen, looted and destroyed gear while pvp'rs can sell gear after repairing it.

    There are plenty of games without looting *yawn*, but they also have a very weak crafting system that is just not part of a true MMORPG.
  • Guys, Intrepid already told us how things will work

    If you get killed but don't fight back while not active in PvP (Caravans) you will get an XP Penalty, Durability decrease and loose some materials
    If you get killed while being active in PvP or fighting back some one who attacks you you will get an XP Penalty, Durability decrease and loose some materials at half the rate
    If you get killed while being Corrupted you will get an XP Penalty, Durability decrease and loose some materials at triple the rate AND have a chance you drop some gear from inventory or equipped

    You get corrupted if you attack and kill someone who is not actively taking part of any PVP (Caravans) and doesn't defend them self

    If you just wan't to PvE you can do it with the Risk that sometimes a PvPer could come up to kill you for your materials, but if you don't fight back they risk in return to become corrupted. So if the PvPer notices you don't fight back they have to make a decision, killing the PvEer to get some Materials but also Corruption, or stop attacking.
    If you want mutual consent PvP you have to attack/defend Caravans or take part in guild wars/node sieges

    In my opinion this system could work. But i'm not happy that a non-combatant has a higher penalty then a combatant. Non-Combatants shouldn't get durability decreases as they didn't used their gear so....no decrease? And the xp penalty should be in relation to the level of the attacker. If you get attacked by someone who clearly outmatches you, you shouldn't get a xp penalty or only a very small one
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited January 2018
    T
  • I actually like the system proposed. I am also not opposed to gear breaking on death from the attacker. In my personal expierence in MMOs random ganking for no reason whatsoever is a thing of the past. The last time I truly saw that was in Archeage and that game was just toxic as all hell. I feel this game is going to spark up the same concerns as BDO did prelaunch. By the time BDO launched all the PVE players realized that getting randomly ganked was so rare if ever happened at all.

    I feel this type of gameplay comes with the F2P model which this game will not be thank god.
  • Enrif said:
    If you just wan't to PvE you can do it with the Risk that sometimes a PvPer could come up to kill you for your materials, but if you don't fight back they risk in return to become corrupted. So if the PvPer notices you don't fight back they have to make a decision, killing the PvEer to get some Materials but also Corruption, or stop attacking.
    If you want mutual consent PvP you have to attack/defend Caravans or take part in guild wars/node sieges.
    The driving force of Ashes is PvP conflict.
    In general, player avatars will be killing player avatars to prevent them from negatively impacting their home city. Or to prevent a rival city from gaining too strong of a foothold.
    Killing non-combatants will generally be due to their PvE actions negatively impacting rival nodes, not because the attackers want to steal their loot.
  • Dygz said:
    The driving force of Ashes is PvP conflict.
    In general, player avatars will be killing player avatars to prevent them from negatively impacting their home city. Or to prevent a rival city from gaining too strong of a foothold.
    Killing non-combatants will generally be due to their PvE actions negatively impacting rival nodes, not because the attackers want to steal their loot.
    An excellent point that illustrates the actual consequence of PvP, both in my idea and what they want to implement, generating interesting and meaningful conflict which otherwise wouldn't be possible if they "bent their knee" at every coward afraid of ANY repercussions.
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