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Lockpicking, ya or nay?
ArchivedUser
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The title pretty much explains it, but anyway:
I'd imagine most people like lockpicking (or atleast the aspect it adds to a game), but is this something you guys wanna see? If so in what way?
I really like lockpicking, but I don't like how most game just have exactly the same type of locks, no matter what... So I'd like to proprose a randomized mix of the "tumblers"- and "pick and turn" systems :) Also make the hard ones actually hard ;)
I'd imagine most people like lockpicking (or atleast the aspect it adds to a game), but is this something you guys wanna see? If so in what way?
I really like lockpicking, but I don't like how most game just have exactly the same type of locks, no matter what... So I'd like to proprose a randomized mix of the "tumblers"- and "pick and turn" systems :) Also make the hard ones actually hard ;)
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Please ignore my orthography and gramatic, because my mother tongue isn't english and so I cant write english that good.
Notice me senpais hahaha XD.
Oh, I mean not me... but someone... ... .. . .
Oh, I mean not me… but someone… … .. . .
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that's okay ill have a dwarven flame turret waiting for you :P
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This, I agree with this!
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Great idea! Lockpicking could be a job or profession, something like cook or farmer.
So it would seem I guessed right, you people do want lockpicking ;)
A lockpicker skill vs locksmith skill ...levelling one auto-unlevels the other.
So you basically choose between security or thief roles....or somewhere between, but not as good at either.
Only a master lockpicker could bypass the skills of a master locksmith.
Most people could probably pick a novice lock created by a master lockpicker.
Skill duality can of course be extended to other areas.
One is about finding weaknesses in a lock to break it.
One is about designing a lock that cant be broken.
One is about finding weaknesses in a lock to break it.
One is about designing a lock that cant be broken.
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Well I didn't say they where the same, I just meant that if you know how to break open a lock, you'd probably know how it would be harder for you to break it. And the otherway around, they aren't the same, but in my head it makes more sense to tie them together than pull them apart. Basicly you design a lock that you think is hard to break, and if you design locks you know how to break them. I'm not saying the skills should be dependant, but at least not have negative effects on eachother.
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[quote quote=2875]I don’t think you’d need to add a duality system, they already said if you truly wanna master a profession, you basicly have to go full time.
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<a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/users/julemanden/" rel="nofollow">@julemanden</a> IMHO I dont think they are the same thing.
One is about finding weaknesses in a lock to break it.
One is about designing a lock that cant be broken.
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Well I didn’t say they where the same, I just meant that if you know how to break open a lock, you’d probably know how it would be harder for you to break it. And the otherway around, they aren’t the same, but in my head it makes more sense to tie them together than pull them apart. Basicly you design a lock that you think is hard to break, and if you design locks you know how to break them. I’m not saying the skills should be dependant, but at least not have negative effects on eachother.
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<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/lockpicking-ya-or-nay/#post-2875" rel="nofollow">Julemanden wrote:</a></div>
I don’t think you’d need to add a duality system, they already said if you truly wanna master a profession, you basicly have to go full time.
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I appreciate what you are trying ot say and fully understand it.
Take a game dev vs a game tester for instance.
They may be related......but their roles are unique.
With me its a duality thing.
The more choices the better.
You cant have variety without enforcing choice.
Lock breakers are not normally considered social role models, the break into safes/homes etc.
Lock makes are on the other end of the social spectrum. They are concerned with protecting society from theft and burglary.
So you have two completely opposing roles......that are still intimately related.
Hence the dualistic system. A security guard is not a thief. You should not be able to be both IMHO...other than basic neutral skills.
Going 'all in' with skill choice is not the same thing as a duality system.
50%/50% lockpicking and lockmaking progress is far more than 0%/0% of a new player.
100%/0% lockpicking and lockmaking progress is between 50%/50% of a new player.
One is a new player friendly system...one is not.
With a 50/50 system...you can specialise and become 100/0 or 0/100
For every benefit is a cost.
You could solve this by making sure that Rogues get some innate bonuses to skills that fall into their domain there by increasing their chances to open locks more easily than other classes. Having traps that go off on failure (or success) of a lock-pick attempt could go hand in hand with having a rogue that could also detect/disarm traps if such skills are present in the game.
Just an example: There may be doors in a dungeon that can be opened with key drops and general lock picking skills (available to all) but then there are also a few locks that can only be opened by a skilled Rogue or at least opened without settings off any alarms/traps.
In short make a version of skill available to everyone but just make sure Rogue's are better at it...
Lock breakers are not normally considered social role models, the break into safes/homes etc.
Lock makes are on the other end of the social spectrum. They are concerned with protecting society from theft and burglary.
So you have two completely opposing roles……that are still intimately related.
Hence the dualistic system. A security guard is not a thief. You should not be able to be both IMHO…other than basic neutral skills.
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It's right that lock breakers arent seen as the good guys, however who do you call if you locked yourself out of the house? Thats right the lock makers (locksmiths), and they come open the lock because they know how to do it without destroying the lock/door etc. I can see why you'd try and seperate them, but I feel there are far more obvious skills to seperate, than Lock-picking and -making.
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In short make a version of skill available to everyone but just make sure Rogue’s are better at it…
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Sounds like a good idea, thoughts on similar skills for other classes?
Lock breakers are not normally considered social role models, the break into safes/homes etc.
Lock makes are on the other end of the social spectrum. They are concerned with protecting society from theft and burglary.
So you have two completely opposing roles……that are still intimately related.
Hence the dualistic system. A security guard is not a thief. You should not be able to be both IMHO…other than basic neutral skills.
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It’s right that lock breakers arent seen as the good guys, however who do you call if you locked yourself out of the house? Thats right the lock makers (locksmiths), and they come open the lock because they know how to do it without destroying the lock/door etc. I can see why you’d try and seperate them, but I feel there are far more obvious skills to seperate, than Lock-picking and -making.
<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/lockpicking-ya-or-nay/#post-3005" rel="nofollow">Sandboxer wrote:</a></div>
In short make a version of skill available to everyone but just make sure Rogue’s are better at it…
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Sounds like a good idea, thoughts on similar skills for other classes?
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Well the locksmith probably wouldnt bypass/break the lock.
They would probably have a master key ;)
Even on modern houses you are given a code for a key to enable the lockmakers to make new keys.
So yes the locksmith 'knows' how to enter that lock because 'they' created it.
Thats does not extend to the locks that they didnt create ;)
Well the locksmith probably wouldnt bypass/break the lock.
They would probably have a master key <img alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2/svg/1f609.svg" />
Even on modern houses you are given a code for a key to enable the lockmakers to make new keys.
So yes the locksmith ‘knows’ how to enter that lock because ‘they’ created it.
Thats does not extend to the locks that they didnt create <img alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2/svg/1f609.svg" />
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Now its kinda just for the arguments sake, it's fun :D
Actually system keys (a.k.a a masterkey) is usually only used by larger institutions or building complexes, such as schools, goverments buildings or shops (+ many more ofc.). In normal suburb houses theres usually not a masterkey, but you have a locksmith that knows how your key is configered (at least im pretty sure thats how it is in Denmark). You can get a copy of your key made at any locksmith, but only one actually writes down your "lock combination". I think its mostly for security purposes, cause otherwise some theif would get the masterkey for a certain type of lock, well you can guess the rest ;)
Old locks (rusty key and all that), don't have the same properties for "system keys", making them so much easier to break, since the mechanics of the time only allowed for certain combinations/properties. That made the lock-making much weaker than modern days standard. (Actually I think most games with tumblers as lockpicking are unrealistic, since they are way more advanced than they would be at that time period).
But theres gotta be some locksmith in this community, someone with some real knowledge ;) Someone that can correct us.
My point was only the creators of the lock actually understand the lock they created.
Anyway, you could have 'levelling' in locksmith skill + 'biasing' into lockmaker skill OR lockbreaker skill.
So that way you develop your skill with locks in general compared to others,
but you also have the option to specialise into thievery, or security.
So anyone could break into generic locks, when skilled (50/50).
MasterThieves could break into master locks (100/0).
Lockmaker could bypass 'their' locks only (0/100).
I think some MMOs have upgradeable locks and such.
Did they mention it for AoC or was it something else ?
I think some MMOs have upgradeable locks and such.
Did they mention it for AoC or was it something else ?
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Never heard of that, but it sounds nice :)
I might be ok with this:
[quote quote=3076]
Anyway, you could have ‘levelling’ in locksmith skill + ‘biasing’ into lockmaker skill OR lockbreaker skill.
So that way you develop your skill with locks in general compared to others,
but you also have the option to specialise into thievery, or security.
So anyone could break into generic locks, when skilled (50/50).
MasterThieves could break into master locks (100/0).
Lockmaker could bypass ‘their’ locks only (0/100).
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Idk why, but I'm more into "hard lock off" of a skill than it being a "soft" one, well specialisation I can get down with, but biased skills not so much. Although in general I'd much more prefer the everything is available if you have enough time style.
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Yes.
And yes to above!
All major cities have their master thieves. So why not in AoC?
I liked the mechanics in TES and later on, ESO. If you get caught, you have to pay a fine. If you continously get caught, you get killed by the city guards, which could set you back in xp or any other chosen setback. So high risk/reward.
This could actually be a thing in caravans as well. If you're a wealthy merchant, you might have the money to purchase a chest from a crafter/blacksmith, that are nailed/ironed down to a cart/wagon, and aren't easy to loot, unless there is a Rogue/Thief with a good skill in lockpicking. If your caravan are attack and you have to retreat, there might be a chance they couldn't open up your chest and your belongings is still inside, IF you try go back to where you were attacked. This could give a high demand on good dedicated craftsman and thiefs with the skill to lockpick these unique chests.
This could actually be a thing in caravans as well. If you’re a wealthy merchant, you might have the money to purchase a chest from a crafter/blacksmith, that are nailed/ironed down to a cart/wagon, and aren’t easy to loot, unless there is a Rogue/Thief with a good skill in lockpicking.
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I like the caravan idea, that sounds great :) Having the ability to "buy you some time" when theres an attack sounds like a good idea. + You create the aspect of taking the whole caravan as opposed to just the stuff. If the chest good enough it might be worth money too, but it will be hard to move. Good thinking :)
As above...nice idea.
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In general I'd be against playerhouse "griefing", even though its really immersive, you still need some sort of safespace. Player housing could be griefed in the event of a siege, but not outside of wartime (IMO).
You could solve this by making sure that Rogues get some innate bonuses to skills that fall into their domain there by increasing their chances to open locks more easily than other classes. Having traps that go off on failure (or success) of a lock-pick attempt could go hand in hand with having a rogue that could also detect/disarm traps if such skills are present in the game.
Just an example: There may be doors in a dungeon that can be opened with key drops and general lock picking skills (available to all) but then there are also a few locks that can only be opened by a skilled Rogue or at least opened without settings off any alarms/traps.
In short make a version of skill available to everyone but just make sure Rogue’s are better at it…
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Pretty much this.
I hated this in ESO.
Oh, I mean not me… but someone… … .. . .
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Here is hoping Home Security Specialist is a crafting specialization. ;-)