Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Gameplay thoughts
Ive played a wide array of MMOs, starting from Ultima Online and going on from there. I love the idea of MMOs and what they bring to the gaming experience. There are a few major things that make or break a game in my opinion. Quests, meaningful player interaction, economy and classes/skills. I will discuss each a bit further and provide examples from games I've played over the years.
Questing:
Honestly, the best MMO I've ever played was indeed the first one, Ultima Online. What made this game great was they didnt force you to play their way. There was no quests.. ever. Im sure a lot of you can't imagine an MMO without quests, but it was a downfall for MMOs once they started forcing quests and grinding.
There is nothing more annoying, frustrating or immersion breaking than quests. The majority of quests in games, especially lower levels, are go here and talk to this guy then come back. Or go kill some type of animal/monster because they are harassing the town or go collect XYZ material so this NPC can make or craft something. And yet people do them, they hate it, but they do them. Why? Because it gives you experience faster and most people want to reach a level cap as quick as possible.
I like the way "leveling" was handled in Ultima Online. You wanted to get better at some skill, you just went out and practiced it. Fight some animals, monsters or bandits with a sword and guess what... your swordsmanship skill raised. Want to craft some armor and weapons? Go mine some ore and then start off by making small weapons and tools at a forge. Had an eye for magic? Grab some reagents and a spell book and try to cast some spells. There was no need to talk to an NPC and go kill X number of wolves. You went out and killed X number of wolves because you wanted to raise your fighting skill or maybe you were a leather worker and wanted their hides or meat for cooking. The point is, you did it because YOU wanted to and not because it was a way to get an experience bump after completing some trivial quest.
Being forced to stop and talk to NPC with exclamation points on their heads and clicking through whatever they are saying, because be honest, most people wont actually read why they are asking you to complete whatever it is, they just want to talk to the guy/girl and go out into the world and get the job done only to come back and see a new exclamation point above someone else’s head. Its exhausting and just boring.
Meaningful player interactions:
There are a few games that I saw a great deal of meaningful interaction between players. What Im not referring to in meaningful interaction is a guild or a bunch of players coming together to form a raid party and take on some dungeon. Im talking about the “everyday activities” that made the game much more meaningful. Games like Star Wars Galaxies and Ultima Online did this amazingly well. If you haven’t played either of these games I’ll give you some reference. In Star Wars Galaxies, you would see people waiting in lines for doctors to give them a stat buff. The players would normally tip the doctor and then go out into the world doing whatever they wanted. This helped everyone, the player was getting a temporary stat buff for a few credits and the doctor was raising skill by making buffs (forget the actual name of what it was they made) and also getting some money for doing so. There also would be people converged in the cantina watching players perform music or dancing. Again, this helped everyone because players watching would recover quicker so they could get back out there and the dancers/musicians were gaining skill and getting money from tips.
In Ultima Online, you would see this kind of interaction in many ways as well. Most people needed armor/weapons so you would see crowds at the town forges. The forges would be manned by actual players repairing/crafting armor and weapons for a price. The armor and weapons from the NPCs you could buy were junk compared to what an actual player would make and sell to you so you almost always frequented the forges. There would be people selling horses around town or spellbooks or whatever they were trying to peddle to make some coin.
The point is, there were focal points for players to gather that they benefited from each other by providing their skill to another player. In most MMOs now a days, how often do you see a crowd of people gathering in a town to get their armor repaired or get buffs from someone else or anything of that nature. They just run to a forge, buy a repair kit and slap it on their armor and run off. There may be thousands of players online but how many times do you interact with them? Sure, you may see them out killing wolves for that quest you are both on and then run back to turn in a quest.. but is that meaningful? I don’t think so.
Economy:
This point is similar to what I was discussing above with interaction. There needs to be a reason people make and sell things to other players. Buying things from NPCs should almost always be of lesser quality than what an advanced tradesman can make in their chosen profession. Why would someone spend time developing a crafting profession if they hardly ever can find a buyer for their goods? From what I’ve read in the blog posts and the Q&As it does seem like they have a good handle on economy. From the trade routes to NOT having a global auction house all seem like steps in the right direction.
Going back to my two MMO examples Ive thrown out so far, Star Wars Galaxies and Ultima Online.. You had player towns that had actual stores. An NPC vendor would sell the goods YOU made. People would have their favorite crafters and go to their town/house/store to buy from them because they knew it was good quality items. Economy and player interaction should go hand in hand in my opinion to make a game much more meaningful to the players and memorable.
Classes and Skills:
I’ll probably take some flack for this but Im going to say it anyway. I hate the idea of predetermined classes. Starting up a game and taking the time to customize the character to look how you want them to be portrayed and giving them the perfect name.. then selecting a class, before you even get in the game to get a feel for how YOU want to play that character is horrible. Tank, Mage, Rogue, Healer, Ranger… sure some games have more than others but that’s what the majority boils down to. Also, like AoC has mentioned there will be classes and subclasses to help offset your main class if you want say a fighter that can do a little magic. But why even put us in those boxes to begin with? I loved games that had a list of skills and you could mix any match ANY skill you wanted. This is not to say you can pick every single skill in the game or a super combination of skills to make the ultimate character. There should be skill point caps and a balance that comes down to tradeoffs because you can pick all those things.
In Ultima online I believe the skill point cap was 700. The max you could be in any skill was 100. So you could be a master of 7 skills total or you could be a master of a few and then be advances in several others. You could totally nerf your character and pick a horrible set of skills that didn’t help you in really any way and never master any skill before hitting 700 and that was great! It wasn’t great for your character, but you had the freedom to do whatever you wanted. You also had the ability to lose skill points in certain areas and then put them toward a different skill or set of skill of your choice. You were NEVER locked into anything. Did a lot of people pick the skills that would match up to make them a better mage, or a fighter or ranger type of character? Sure they did. They found what works best for them and practiced those skills. Was there characters that had what seemed like randomly picked out skills along with a few normal trends? You bet. That’s what made the game great. You never knew what the player you are facing was capable of. There could be a player that was a master archer and seemed to be an all out ranger type but guess what, he also was able to resurrect his friend that fell in battle because he decided to master magic as well.
Star Wars Galaxies had a similar method of “leveling” as well. You could start practicing any skill you wanted and make any combination of skill across the board. You can level something up one week and then decide its not for you and “turn it off” to start losing point in that skill as you gained another. The freedom of choice and possibilities were what made those games great. Not being locked into a certain class or subclass and playing the characters you envisioned based on the skills and abilities in the game available was outstanding.
Sorry for such a long post but I wanted to express what I feel makes MMOs great and it’s been a long time since I can say I’ve played a GREAT MMO. It boils down to the developers giving us the tools in the game to play the way we want to play and make our characters and not just putting people in predefined boxes and cookie cutters.
With all that said, I do love a lot of things about this game and I am very excited to give it a try!
Questing:
Honestly, the best MMO I've ever played was indeed the first one, Ultima Online. What made this game great was they didnt force you to play their way. There was no quests.. ever. Im sure a lot of you can't imagine an MMO without quests, but it was a downfall for MMOs once they started forcing quests and grinding.
There is nothing more annoying, frustrating or immersion breaking than quests. The majority of quests in games, especially lower levels, are go here and talk to this guy then come back. Or go kill some type of animal/monster because they are harassing the town or go collect XYZ material so this NPC can make or craft something. And yet people do them, they hate it, but they do them. Why? Because it gives you experience faster and most people want to reach a level cap as quick as possible.
I like the way "leveling" was handled in Ultima Online. You wanted to get better at some skill, you just went out and practiced it. Fight some animals, monsters or bandits with a sword and guess what... your swordsmanship skill raised. Want to craft some armor and weapons? Go mine some ore and then start off by making small weapons and tools at a forge. Had an eye for magic? Grab some reagents and a spell book and try to cast some spells. There was no need to talk to an NPC and go kill X number of wolves. You went out and killed X number of wolves because you wanted to raise your fighting skill or maybe you were a leather worker and wanted their hides or meat for cooking. The point is, you did it because YOU wanted to and not because it was a way to get an experience bump after completing some trivial quest.
Being forced to stop and talk to NPC with exclamation points on their heads and clicking through whatever they are saying, because be honest, most people wont actually read why they are asking you to complete whatever it is, they just want to talk to the guy/girl and go out into the world and get the job done only to come back and see a new exclamation point above someone else’s head. Its exhausting and just boring.
Meaningful player interactions:
There are a few games that I saw a great deal of meaningful interaction between players. What Im not referring to in meaningful interaction is a guild or a bunch of players coming together to form a raid party and take on some dungeon. Im talking about the “everyday activities” that made the game much more meaningful. Games like Star Wars Galaxies and Ultima Online did this amazingly well. If you haven’t played either of these games I’ll give you some reference. In Star Wars Galaxies, you would see people waiting in lines for doctors to give them a stat buff. The players would normally tip the doctor and then go out into the world doing whatever they wanted. This helped everyone, the player was getting a temporary stat buff for a few credits and the doctor was raising skill by making buffs (forget the actual name of what it was they made) and also getting some money for doing so. There also would be people converged in the cantina watching players perform music or dancing. Again, this helped everyone because players watching would recover quicker so they could get back out there and the dancers/musicians were gaining skill and getting money from tips.
In Ultima Online, you would see this kind of interaction in many ways as well. Most people needed armor/weapons so you would see crowds at the town forges. The forges would be manned by actual players repairing/crafting armor and weapons for a price. The armor and weapons from the NPCs you could buy were junk compared to what an actual player would make and sell to you so you almost always frequented the forges. There would be people selling horses around town or spellbooks or whatever they were trying to peddle to make some coin.
The point is, there were focal points for players to gather that they benefited from each other by providing their skill to another player. In most MMOs now a days, how often do you see a crowd of people gathering in a town to get their armor repaired or get buffs from someone else or anything of that nature. They just run to a forge, buy a repair kit and slap it on their armor and run off. There may be thousands of players online but how many times do you interact with them? Sure, you may see them out killing wolves for that quest you are both on and then run back to turn in a quest.. but is that meaningful? I don’t think so.
Economy:
This point is similar to what I was discussing above with interaction. There needs to be a reason people make and sell things to other players. Buying things from NPCs should almost always be of lesser quality than what an advanced tradesman can make in their chosen profession. Why would someone spend time developing a crafting profession if they hardly ever can find a buyer for their goods? From what I’ve read in the blog posts and the Q&As it does seem like they have a good handle on economy. From the trade routes to NOT having a global auction house all seem like steps in the right direction.
Going back to my two MMO examples Ive thrown out so far, Star Wars Galaxies and Ultima Online.. You had player towns that had actual stores. An NPC vendor would sell the goods YOU made. People would have their favorite crafters and go to their town/house/store to buy from them because they knew it was good quality items. Economy and player interaction should go hand in hand in my opinion to make a game much more meaningful to the players and memorable.
Classes and Skills:
I’ll probably take some flack for this but Im going to say it anyway. I hate the idea of predetermined classes. Starting up a game and taking the time to customize the character to look how you want them to be portrayed and giving them the perfect name.. then selecting a class, before you even get in the game to get a feel for how YOU want to play that character is horrible. Tank, Mage, Rogue, Healer, Ranger… sure some games have more than others but that’s what the majority boils down to. Also, like AoC has mentioned there will be classes and subclasses to help offset your main class if you want say a fighter that can do a little magic. But why even put us in those boxes to begin with? I loved games that had a list of skills and you could mix any match ANY skill you wanted. This is not to say you can pick every single skill in the game or a super combination of skills to make the ultimate character. There should be skill point caps and a balance that comes down to tradeoffs because you can pick all those things.
In Ultima online I believe the skill point cap was 700. The max you could be in any skill was 100. So you could be a master of 7 skills total or you could be a master of a few and then be advances in several others. You could totally nerf your character and pick a horrible set of skills that didn’t help you in really any way and never master any skill before hitting 700 and that was great! It wasn’t great for your character, but you had the freedom to do whatever you wanted. You also had the ability to lose skill points in certain areas and then put them toward a different skill or set of skill of your choice. You were NEVER locked into anything. Did a lot of people pick the skills that would match up to make them a better mage, or a fighter or ranger type of character? Sure they did. They found what works best for them and practiced those skills. Was there characters that had what seemed like randomly picked out skills along with a few normal trends? You bet. That’s what made the game great. You never knew what the player you are facing was capable of. There could be a player that was a master archer and seemed to be an all out ranger type but guess what, he also was able to resurrect his friend that fell in battle because he decided to master magic as well.
Star Wars Galaxies had a similar method of “leveling” as well. You could start practicing any skill you wanted and make any combination of skill across the board. You can level something up one week and then decide its not for you and “turn it off” to start losing point in that skill as you gained another. The freedom of choice and possibilities were what made those games great. Not being locked into a certain class or subclass and playing the characters you envisioned based on the skills and abilities in the game available was outstanding.
Sorry for such a long post but I wanted to express what I feel makes MMOs great and it’s been a long time since I can say I’ve played a GREAT MMO. It boils down to the developers giving us the tools in the game to play the way we want to play and make our characters and not just putting people in predefined boxes and cookie cutters.
With all that said, I do love a lot of things about this game and I am very excited to give it a try!
0
Comments
There is nothing more annoying, frustrating or immersion breaking than quests.</blockquote>
The devs have mentioned that they like the immersion. However, the devs plan on going about it a different way: you'll still get a quest to go out and kill some monsters that are threatening the town - however, once you do so, <em>the town actually begins to get bigger and expand because now there are fewer monsters threatening it.</em>
<blockquote>I like the way “leveling” was handled in Ultima Online. You wanted to get better at some skill, you just went out and practiced it.</blockquote>
I've heard of a few games that do something similar. However, Ashes will have character levels (this has been confirmed). The devs do plan on doing things a little differently, though - they've mentioned that you'll be able to level up your artisan class seperately from your combat class. That leads to the same kind of thing you're getting at, where your general skills are more affected by the effort you put in, rather than some arbitrary level from killing mobs.
<blockquote>Being forced to stop and talk to NPC with exclamation points on their heads</blockquote>
Actually, in the most recent livestream, Steven said that there won't be any large, annoying notifications like exclamation points above NPC heads.
<blockquote>Meaningful player interactions:
In Star Wars Galaxies, you would see people waiting in lines for doctors to give them a stat buff.</blockquote>
The devs have mentioned that players that buy Freeholds (open-world housing outside of the cities) will be able to buildinteractive buildings on it, like a Tavern. They have also mentioned that other players could potentially buy food at your tavern to receive a buff, similar to what you're talking about here.
<blockquote>There also would be people converged in the cantina watching players perform music or dancing.</blockquote>
Again, they plan to add something like singing or story-telling in taverns.
<blockquote>In Ultima Online, you would see this kind of interaction in many ways as well. Most people needed armor/weapons so you would see crowds at the town forges.</blockquote>
While there may or may not be forges, the devs have confirmed that players will be needed to repair armor, and that player-crafted gear will be at least as good and more customizable than dropped gear.
<blockquote>Economy:
This point is similar to what I was discussing above with interaction. There needs to be a reason people make and sell things to other players.</blockquote>
See above.
<blockquote>An NPC vendor would sell the goods YOU made.</blockquote>
In some gameplay footage of a Metropolis, we got to see some vendor stalls that Steven said you could use to set up shop - exactly like you're saying here.
<blockquote>Classes and Skills:
I’ll probably take some flack for this but Im going to say it anyway. I hate the idea of predetermined classes.</blockquote>
Actually, giving things some level of predetermined-ness can actually be good. It lets the devs predict and create some cool interactions. For example, the teleporting charge. Let's say I went Mage/Tank in Ultima Online. Let's also say that I have a skill that lets me charge at someone. Would the system allow me to, say, teleport directly to the opponent instead, and knock them down?
Maybe, but probably not.
The good thing about predetermining some things but keeping lots of options open is that you can specifically allow certain interactions that make sense.
Questing:
Honestly, the best MMO I’ve ever played was indeed the first one, Ultima Online. What made this game great was they didnt force you to play their way. There was no quests.. ever. Im sure a lot of you can’t imagine an MMO without quests, but it was a downfall for MMOs once they started forcing quests and grinding.
There is nothing more annoying, frustrating or immersion breaking than quests. The majority of quests in games, especially lower levels, are go here and talk to this guy then come back. Or go kill some type of animal/monster because they are harassing the town or go collect XYZ material so this NPC can make or craft something. And yet people do them, they hate it, but they do them. Why? Because it gives you experience faster and most people want to reach a level cap as quick as possible.
I like the way “leveling” was handled in Ultima Online. You wanted to get better at some skill, you just went out and practiced it. Fight some animals, monsters or bandits with a sword and guess what… your swordsmanship skill raised. Want to craft some armor and weapons? Go mine some ore and then start off by making small weapons and tools at a forge. Had an eye for magic? Grab some reagents and a spell book and try to cast some spells. There was no need to talk to an NPC and go kill X number of wolves. You went out and killed X number of wolves because you wanted to raise your fighting skill or maybe you were a leather worker and wanted their hides or meat for cooking. The point is, you did it because YOU wanted to and not because it was a way to get an experience bump after completing some trivial quest.
Being forced to stop and talk to NPC with exclamation points on their heads and clicking through whatever they are saying, because be honest, most people wont actually read why they are asking you to complete whatever it is, they just want to talk to the guy/girl and go out into the world and get the job done only to come back and see a new exclamation point above someone else’s head. Its exhausting and just boring.
Meaningful player interactions:
There are a few games that I saw a great deal of meaningful interaction between players. What Im not referring to in meaningful interaction is a guild or a bunch of players coming together to form a raid party and take on some dungeon. Im talking about the “everyday activities” that made the game much more meaningful. Games like Star Wars Galaxies and Ultima Online did this amazingly well. If you haven’t played either of these games I’ll give you some reference. In Star Wars Galaxies, you would see people waiting in lines for doctors to give them a stat buff. The players would normally tip the doctor and then go out into the world doing whatever they wanted. This helped everyone, the player was getting a temporary stat buff for a few credits and the doctor was raising skill by making buffs (forget the actual name of what it was they made) and also getting some money for doing so. There also would be people converged in the cantina watching players perform music or dancing. Again, this helped everyone because players watching would recover quicker so they could get back out there and the dancers/musicians were gaining skill and getting money from tips.
In Ultima Online, you would see this kind of interaction in many ways as well. Most people needed armor/weapons so you would see crowds at the town forges. The forges would be manned by actual players repairing/crafting armor and weapons for a price. The armor and weapons from the NPCs you could buy were junk compared to what an actual player would make and sell to you so you almost always frequented the forges. There would be people selling horses around town or spellbooks or whatever they were trying to peddle to make some coin.
The point is, there were focal points for players to gather that they benefited from each other by providing their skill to another player. In most MMOs now a days, how often do you see a crowd of people gathering in a town to get their armor repaired or get buffs from someone else or anything of that nature. They just run to a forge, buy a repair kit and slap it on their armor and run off. There may be thousands of players online but how many times do you interact with them? Sure, you may see them out killing wolves for that quest you are both on and then run back to turn in a quest.. but is that meaningful? I don’t think so.
Economy:
This point is similar to what I was discussing above with interaction. There needs to be a reason people make and sell things to other players. Buying things from NPCs should almost always be of lesser quality than what an advanced tradesman can make in their chosen profession. Why would someone spend time developing a crafting profession if they hardly ever can find a buyer for their goods? From what I’ve read in the blog posts and the Q&As it does seem like they have a good handle on economy. From the trade routes to NOT having a global auction house all seem like steps in the right direction.
Going back to my two MMO examples Ive thrown out so far, Star Wars Galaxies and Ultima Online.. You had player towns that had actual stores. An NPC vendor would sell the goods YOU made. People would have their favorite crafters and go to their town/house/store to buy from them because they knew it was good quality items. Economy and player interaction should go hand in hand in my opinion to make a game much more meaningful to the players and memorable.
Classes and Skills:
I’ll probably take some flack for this but Im going to say it anyway. I hate the idea of predetermined classes. Starting up a game and taking the time to customize the character to look how you want them to be portrayed and giving them the perfect name.. then selecting a class, before you even get in the game to get a feel for how YOU want to play that character is horrible. Tank, Mage, Rogue, Healer, Ranger… sure some games have more than others but that’s what the majority boils down to. Also, like AoC has mentioned there will be classes and subclasses to help offset your main class if you want say a fighter that can do a little magic. But why even put us in those boxes to begin with? I loved games that had a list of skills and you could mix any match ANY skill you wanted. This is not to say you can pick every single skill in the game or a super combination of skills to make the ultimate character. There should be skill point caps and a balance that comes down to tradeoffs because you can pick all those things.
In Ultima online I believe the skill point cap was 700. The max you could be in any skill was 100. So you could be a master of 7 skills total or you could be a master of a few and then be advances in several others. You could totally nerf your character and pick a horrible set of skills that didn’t help you in really any way and never master any skill before hitting 700 and that was great! It wasn’t great for your character, but you had the freedom to do whatever you wanted. You also had the ability to lose skill points in certain areas and then put them toward a different skill or set of skill of your choice. You were NEVER locked into anything. Did a lot of people pick the skills that would match up to make them a better mage, or a fighter or ranger type of character? Sure they did. They found what works best for them and practiced those skills. Was there characters that had what seemed like randomly picked out skills along with a few normal trends? You bet. That’s what made the game great. You never knew what the player you are facing was capable of. There could be a player that was a master archer and seemed to be an all out ranger type but guess what, he also was able to resurrect his friend that fell in battle because he decided to master magic as well.
Star Wars Galaxies had a similar method of “leveling” as well. You could start practicing any skill you wanted and make any combination of skill across the board. You can level something up one week and then decide its not for you and “turn it off” to start losing point in that skill as you gained another. The freedom of choice and possibilities were what made those games great. Not being locked into a certain class or subclass and playing the characters you envisioned based on the skills and abilities in the game available was outstanding.
Sorry for such a long post but I wanted to express what I feel makes MMOs great and it’s been a long time since I can say I’ve played a GREAT MMO. It boils down to the developers giving us the tools in the game to play the way we want to play and make our characters and not just putting people in predefined boxes and cookie cutters.
With all that said, I do love a lot of things about this game and I am very excited to give it a try!
</blockquote>
I'm sorry but your living in the past, the new MMORPG generation has grown in lore, pve, pvp, economy, and everything you mentioned above. So this game with other MMORPG's being developed currently are actually competing with each other. So, yes, give it a try and if you don't like it, then MMORPG's of this new generation ain't for you. Thanks ...
<blockquote>
There is nothing more annoying, frustrating or immersion breaking than quests.
</blockquote>
The devs have mentioned that they like the immersion. However, the devs plan on going about it a different way: you’ll still get a quest to go out and kill some monsters that are threatening the town – however, once you do so, <em>the town actually begins to get bigger and expand because now there are fewer monsters threatening it.</em>
</blockquote>
I knew they were implementing quests. Like I said, all MMOs now seem to go that route. Im glad to hear that at least in the example you gave, there is an actual purpose for the quests and its not just some arbitrary reason to get an exp bump.
<blockquote>
I like the way “leveling” was handled in Ultima Online. You wanted to get better at some skill, you just went out and practiced it.
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
I’ve heard of a few games that do something similar. However, Ashes will have character levels (this has been confirmed). The devs do plan on doing things a little differently, though – they’ve mentioned that you’ll be able to level up your artisan class seperately from your combat class. That leads to the same kind of thing you’re getting at, where your general skills are more affected by the effort you put in, rather than some arbitrary level from killing mobs.
</blockquote>
I dont think their leveling is similar to what Im speaking about. People want to just be crafters or gatherers or tavern owners. By allowing every character to go full out with their class skills and also allow them to become artisans, it cheapens the experience for those that would rather concentrate on the crafting and trading aspect in MMOs. Not everyone wants to be a hero, they just want to do their part for the greater good.
<blockquote>Being forced to stop and talk to NPC with exclamation points on their heads
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
Actually, in the most recent livestream, Steven said that there won’t be any large, annoying notifications like exclamation points above NPC heads.
</blockquote>
If I have to deal with quests, at least this is good to hear.
<blockquote>Meaningful player interactions:
In Star Wars Galaxies, you would see people waiting in lines for doctors to give them a stat buff.
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
The devs have mentioned that players that buy Freeholds (open-world housing outside of the cities) will be able to buildinteractive buildings on it, like a Tavern. They have also mentioned that other players could potentially buy food at your tavern to receive a buff, similar to what you’re talking about here.
</blockquote>
I heard that too about the taverns and whatnot on their freeholds. I just hope that the incentive to visit these places is great enough that they will be visited and not just run passed on their way to finish the next quest.
<blockquote>There also would be people converged in the cantina watching players perform music or dancing.
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
Again, they plan to add something like singing or story-telling in taverns.
</blockquote>
Same as above with there should be a good incentive to seek these places out and visit.
<blockquote>In Ultima Online, you would see this kind of interaction in many ways as well. Most people needed armor/weapons so you would see crowds at the town forges.
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
While there may or may not be forges, the devs have confirmed that players will be needed to repair armor, and that player-crafted gear will be at least as good and more customizable than dropped gear.
</blockquote>
I know this came up in another topic, about there needs to be a sink of some sort for armor/weapons so that crafters actually serve a purpose. There was some good ideas in that thread on how it can be accomplished.
<blockquote>An NPC vendor would sell the goods YOU made.
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
In some gameplay footage of a Metropolis, we got to see some vendor stalls that Steven said you could use to set up shop – exactly like you’re saying here.
</blockquote>
I must have missed that footage you are referring to. Thanks for the incite.
<blockquote>Classes and Skills:
I’ll probably take some flack for this but Im going to say it anyway. I hate the idea of predetermined classes.
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
Actually, giving things some level of predetermined-ness can actually be good. It lets the devs predict and create some cool interactions. For example, the teleporting charge. Let’s say I went Mage/Tank in Ultima Online. Let’s also say that I have a skill that lets me charge at someone. Would the system allow me to, say, teleport directly to the opponent instead, and knock them down?
Maybe, but probably not.
The good thing about predetermining some things but keeping lots of options open is that you can specifically allow certain interactions that make sense.
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I see what you are saying about if there are predetermined class routes that the devs can create things that work well together. I still disagree though. You may not get the teleport knock down charge you are referring to by combining classes like that, but in my opinion if you are free to choose whatever skills you want, that would make for more creative gameplay than throwing in a few skills that get combined because of predetermined class/subclass selection.
The idea about having buildings on your freehold like a tavern is good. I just hope that there is enough incentive for players to seek out these places and they just dont get overlooked because they are a minute or so run outside of their direction toward whatever quest they are trying to accomplish.
Im glad they are making armor/weapons deteriorate. There needs to be some kind of sink for armor/weapons so that crafters actually have something to do and serve a valid purpose. I dont like however that everyone can fulfill their class, subclass and then also become an artisan though. There are people out there that just want to be crafters, gatherers, regular tavern owners. Giving everyone the ability to be able to 'be the hero' and also the 'average joe crafter' cheapens the experience for those that want to primarily concentrate on crafting.
I know what you are saying about the predetermined class/subclass the devs can incorporate new abilities that join the two very well. You gave an example of the mage/fighter with a teleporting knock down charge. I disagree though however. Sure the devs can marry the two classes with some cool abilities that wouldnt normally have existed, but in my opinion there would be much more creativity and unique style in the gameplay if it were just left to the person to decide what skills and abilities they want. I know they are implementing class/subclass already, but Im just throwing out my opinions.
My favorite WoW quests are the ones where my Druid healed the animals of plague and the Cataclysm quests which stopped Mt Hyjal from burning.
Quests are about providing story - not grinding xp. Way worse than grinding mobs for xp from quests is grinding the same mobs for xp with no quests...especially without the added xp and rewards from quest completion.
The "problem" with quests in games like EQ and WoW is when the quest says the mobs are harassing the town, even when they are really just roaming around some area near the town... such that you could avoid them if you really wanted to. Those mountain lions aren't really harassing the town - but if you travel to the location where mountain lions roam, they will attack you.
In Ashes, there will be mobs harassing the towns. And if we don't stop those mobs, they will destroy the towns.
Ashes is a dynamic world where everything we do impacts the world.
I don't know what can be meant by more exploration without quests.
I'm sure that depends on playstyle.
If you're an Achiever/Killer, you might be totally focused on completing your quests.
I am an Explorer/Socializer. First thing I do with every character is uncover as much of the mini-map as possible.
When I play the carebear challenge, I focus on gathering... ignoring any quests that require killing.
Perhaps what is meant is that most players in MMORPGs have typically been hardcore Killer/Achievers rather than casual Explorer/Socializers. But, that really has nothing to with quests. Having no quests doesn't make people explore more.
People who are focused on xp will still just camp the area that provides the most xp and then move to the next best spot that provides the most efficient xp gain. Players who have little interest in exploration won't explore much.
Freeholds provide gear and buffs, etc. As well as plenty of player-driven decor. And stories, if players are there.
Ashes is not a static world. Freeholds will change over time. It's not like you just start ignoring freeholds after you've visited them once. Freeholds are a place to go for gear repairs... etc. As well as trade whatever loot you've acquired while adventuring.
Whether people ignore freeholds is probably going to be more dependent upon how frequently the owners can be found there.
When freeholds are empty, players will rely on themselves. (Also depends on how greedy the owners are.)
Each character can be an Artisan as well as an Adventurer - that doesn't mean each character can be a master at everything.
There will be Master Adventurers with average Artisan skills and Master Artisans with average Adventurer skills.
The Artisan role has classes as well - one character cannot pursue all classes in the Artisan role.
The class system makes t easier for us to specialize for group play. Rather than wait around hoping to find people with the abilities you're looking for.
Tank is a specific role. That doesn't mean I'm looking for a Bard/Fighter/Cleric/Ranger/Summoner who also happens to have a Taunt ability. If we need a Cleric, that doesn't mean a Tank/Fighter/Summoner/Rogue/Ranger with a couple of Cleric spells will be adequate.
Ashes' class system should be a lot of fun while also providing a lot of variety.
A Mage/Tank who uses fireballs to Taunt should be a lot of fun to watch (and play).
Hey, Thanks for the trip down memory lane! I played UO on and of a few times. Mostly at the start and it truly was a great game for its time. Many of the things that you could do in UO are not offered in MMOs even now!
You gained exp by putting bits into your skill pools by performing actions. skill pools would fill up starting at learning and going all the way to mindlock when you couldnt put any more bits into the pool until it drained over time. You pool size was based off of Intel and the rate at which it drained was based on wisdom. the speed at which you could swing a weapon was based off strength and how tired it made you was strength as well.
The point i am trying to make is this system was an amazing system to work with and you pretty much knew what you needed to do to advance any skill in the game. Find something that is your level and do that. So if you were making a sword you found a material that was your level and makes swords out of that. Kill critters that are your level and you get the most efficient exp gain.
It was a great system i wish i would see in a graphics based game these days.
Often the quest are used specifically to force you off of the beaten track into areas most (those who arent explorers) would simply not go.
So its a way to force players to explore every inch of the map.
And thus..bump into things they otherwise would not (unless they were the explorer type).
Exploring every inch of the map will be fundamental to find encounters that will drive the storyline onward
Im not saying I never enjoyed quests. A few games had some really good quests and it was quite enjoyable to play through that content. Im just saying for the most part, I dont like what questing does in general. Forcing people to take specific paths (everyone gets the same quests..do they not? Unless its class specific or the likes). Im not saying I like grinding anything. The way I use the term grinding it means its pretty much not fun but something that must be done. I just like going out exploring and finding enemies, camps, caves etc to fight monsters/enemies while Im out checking out the landscape. Sure, you can do that and bypass all the quests and Ive done it in a few games. But it seems like everyone just does the same quests, runs the same paths, camps the same spawn points and levels up as quick as possible. I just dont like that. I know I keep throwing UO as a reference, but really, I feel like they did it right because they had no quests to speak of. The players made their own 'quests' to explore a dungeon or to explore the areas. Hell, they even came up with their own events by holding tournaments with prizes and all kinds of games. It wasnt about reaching a level cap or finally getting to your classes quest to get your epic gear.
I don't mind set classes, but I don't like balancing ALL classes for PvP. That kinda ruins the diversity imo.
Most games follow a themepark style of missions where not only do you have kill/find/collect same things time after time forcing you to head from point a to point b ever moving forward to the next teir of content and if you want to stop and take a bit more time in the area you feel like you are slowing your progress.
AoC seem to want to get as far away from this as possible. No quest markers hanging over heads. if or rather when you fnd a spot you like you are activly encouraged to help progress that area through gaining experience in any way YOU want to. As you contribute to you new found fav area more and more things to do will unlock. If you get bored of that are you dont like how things are going you can look for somewhere new.
Now I don't know about you but that sounds awsome. :)
Im not saying I never enjoyed quests. A few games had some really good quests and it was quite enjoyable to play through that content. Im just saying for the most part, I dont like what questing does in general. Forcing people to take specific paths (everyone gets the same quests..do they not? Unless its class specific or the likes). Im not saying I like grinding anything. The way I use the term grinding it means its pretty much not fun but something that must be done. I just like going out exploring and finding enemies, camps, caves etc to fight monsters/enemies while Im out checking out the landscape. Sure, you can do that and bypass all the quests and Ive done it in a few games. But it seems like everyone just does the same quests, runs the same paths, camps the same spawn points and levels up as quick as possible. I just dont like that. I know I keep throwing UO as a reference, but really, I feel like they did it right because they had no quests to speak of. The players made their own ‘quests’ to explore a dungeon or to explore the areas. Hell, they even came up with their own events by holding tournaments with prizes and all kinds of games. It wasnt about reaching a level cap or finally getting to your classes quest to get your epic gear.
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Ah, you want old school.
Welcome to your new home.
:D