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How to make combat exciting
ArchivedUser
Guest
A lot of people have talked about action-based, combo-based combat is incredible but that is only 1 half of the story to what makes combat enjoyable. The other side is the mobs you are facing. I've recently been giving BDO another try and even though the devs have clearly put a lot of time and effort into the combat system, the combat is boring because the mobs you face are boring. Not only are they boring but they aren't even a threat. So far I've gotten to level 17 and I have done nothing but hold down my right mouse button in combat, and I've yet to have my health drop below 75%.
There is no point in having an amazing flowing combat system if the mobs you have to fight die in 2 hits. Let's not forget that the whole point of having a character leveling system is to teach you how to play your character. So far I know nothing about my character, her abilities, or anything because I simply haven't needed to use any of her abilities. I haven't even bothered to assign any skill points because I haven't needed to.
Now, let's look at a game that has done combat well. Skyforge. The combat in Skyforge is very similar to what is being planned for Ashes, where you tab target to lock onto an enemy but can move while attacking and dodge around, etc. Despite the combat being less active than in BDO, I enjoy it a lot more because the mobs I am facing are better designed, and are actually a threat to me (you can die very quickly if you just stand still). Not only that but my resources are limited so I have to choose my spells carefully, unlike in BDO where I can spam as much as I like with no consequences. In Skyforge, you have to pick your spells depending on the mobs in front of you. Sometimes you will get large groups of low health mobs that you have to use aoe on, whereas other times you have 1-2 high health mobs that need to be single-targeted down, and of course you sometimes get a combination of both, with some ranged and some melee mobs. This variety keeps the combat interesting even though you are just pressing the same 3-4 buttons each time.
Anyone who is complaining about the combat system should really go and give Skyforge a go and I hope that the Ashes devs will take the time to not only think about the character combat, but the mobs they are putting us against. Please don't make the same mistake BDO has made with their combat system.
There is no point in having an amazing flowing combat system if the mobs you have to fight die in 2 hits. Let's not forget that the whole point of having a character leveling system is to teach you how to play your character. So far I know nothing about my character, her abilities, or anything because I simply haven't needed to use any of her abilities. I haven't even bothered to assign any skill points because I haven't needed to.
Now, let's look at a game that has done combat well. Skyforge. The combat in Skyforge is very similar to what is being planned for Ashes, where you tab target to lock onto an enemy but can move while attacking and dodge around, etc. Despite the combat being less active than in BDO, I enjoy it a lot more because the mobs I am facing are better designed, and are actually a threat to me (you can die very quickly if you just stand still). Not only that but my resources are limited so I have to choose my spells carefully, unlike in BDO where I can spam as much as I like with no consequences. In Skyforge, you have to pick your spells depending on the mobs in front of you. Sometimes you will get large groups of low health mobs that you have to use aoe on, whereas other times you have 1-2 high health mobs that need to be single-targeted down, and of course you sometimes get a combination of both, with some ranged and some melee mobs. This variety keeps the combat interesting even though you are just pressing the same 3-4 buttons each time.
Anyone who is complaining about the combat system should really go and give Skyforge a go and I hope that the Ashes devs will take the time to not only think about the character combat, but the mobs they are putting us against. Please don't make the same mistake BDO has made with their combat system.
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The whole point of a leveling system is "to teach you how to play your character"?
Is that because "endgame is the real game" and leveling is just a grind??
The whole point of a leveling system in RPGs is to provide a hero's journey from unskilled novice to highly skilled master.
I haven't played BDO.
I liked the mobs in NWO. Definitely couldn't survive those mobs just by pressing one button.
Quite a lot of our combat will be against players - possessing avatars as well as possessing mobs and bosses.
So, while the AI should be entertaining enough that we have fun during general gameplay, the ultimate challenges will be fighting against human players rather than against scripted AI.
Combat where you actually have to use specific tools skills for the jobs and adversaries offer different challenges.
Rather than simply stack and spam.
Both your versions are saying the same thing about novice to master and training up.
But skill levelling does not have to mean character levelling.
The have actually said they have multiple concurrent levelling systems.
So what relates to what...we really dont know TBH.
I do get the feeling they are going for the tactical/strategic combat, rather than a min/maxed rotation button masher.
But strategic/tactical means different things to different people.
So I wait and hope that my own interpretation isnt a deluded one clouded by desire.
This requires active dodging mechanics ofc
The whole point of a leveling system is “to teach you how to play your character”?
Is that because “endgame is the real game” and leveling is just a grind??
The whole point of a leveling system in RPGs is to provide a hero’s journey from unskilled novice to highly skilled master.
I haven’t played BDO.
I liked the mobs in NWO. Definitely couldn’t survive those mobs just by pressing one button.
Quite a lot of our combat will be against players – possessing avatars as well as possessing mobs and bosses.
So, while the AI should be entertaining enough that we have fun during general gameplay, the ultimate challenges will be fighting against human players rather than against scripted AI.
</blockquote>
Thanks for agreeing with me (even though you think you are disagreeing with me...)
I've never played NWO so I can't comment. As for Ashes, the amount of PvP we get will depend a lot on how big and populated the world is. Early on it will probably be more PvE focused while players concentrate on building up the nodes. Once the metropolises start appearing players will be forced into more PvP scenarios. Hopefully there will be a nice balance between the PvP and PvE but that still means the PvE section needs to be carefully balanced to make it enjoyable.
I've never played NWO so I can't comment. As for Ashes, the amount of PvP we get will depend a lot on how big and populated the world is. Early on it will probably be more PvE focused while players concentrate on building up the nodes. Once the metropolises start appearing players will be forced into more PvP scenarios. Hopefully there will be a nice balance between the PvP and PvE but that still means the PvE section needs to be carefully balanced to make it enjoyable.
Oh and dont forget u have healers with u usualy.
One could say this is at best a dungeon mechanic, but why not use this in the open world in some nodes - playing as group is more fun anyway.
If someone like the souls games he could even try it solo :'D
Or just go to another node with singleplayer content aka downgraded versions if u cant/dont want to find someone to group up with at a time.
I wouldnt say its lazy to up the dmg, because combat without real dmg income has no possible way ever to be challenging. Its not totaly impossible to make it fun without incoming dmg but the developer will have a very hard time make it that way. And for long term fun it really is impossible without challenge.. And thats what a subscription based game is all about right?
Ofc the attacks got to look interesting and dont just hit u no matter what like autoattacks in most tab targeting games.
Implementing mechanics that require dodging as if ur playing a touhou game would be awesome too xD