Lifespans, aging and growing up

ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
edited June 2017 in Ashes of Creation Lore
Hello everyone,

I wanna talk lifespans! 
We can probably guess that at least the elven races will have a longer lifespan, because... they have everywhere, right? Maybe dwarves (to a lesser degree), too? Do we know anything about how it will be in Ashes yet?

What I'd like to know from you guys and from Intrepid is what the thoughts are on growing up with races that have longer lifespans. In other games, when it comes to roleplay, I have often encountered people that said things like "50 year old elves are childs". Which in my opinion is just rediculous. In every way I look at it, be it actually the body or the mind, it just makes no sense to me. There is only one argument that I can get behind, and that would be, that:

1. --within the races community-- there might be an age that is considered with a high regard, like for us the age of 50... not because someone is grown and able to make their own decisions, but because there is a certain amount of experience piled up, which relatively to the lifespan of a race can count for something

The other arguments I don't understand and here is why:

2. "The physical aging process takes longer, because the lifespan is longer". So the argument goes like humans with a maximum lifespan of lets say 100 are fully grown at 16. So a race that's lifespan goes up to 1000 years will only have full grown bodies at the age of 160. 
Sorry, but that just can't be right. What kind of "nature" would build a race, that's gonna poop into diapers for up to 20 years? That's just incredible ineffective. Even if you say the speed is equal at the beginning and slows down... why? Why does <strong>growing up</strong> need to be significantly slower, just because <strong>aging </strong>is slower? Are these not two completely different things? Growing up is building up a body, creating and forming it. Its constructive. Aging is kind of the opposite, right? Even tortoises that get to over 250 years are pubescent after 10 years.
So I think no matter how long the lifespan... all of them will be fully grown after 15-20 years. 

3. "Their mind takes longer to form that of an adult". This argument goes like number 2. but with their mind. So a 50 year old would behave like a 5 year old. Seems a little less strange when argument 2. would be valid, but even then:
No matter what race you are, you experience at the same pace. So your mind learns and matures at the same pace. 
There is only one exception to that: If your intellect is significantly lower.
So are we saying all elves are simply dumb? In most cases that is just not the case. Just the opposite: they are mostly seen as wiser. And that makes sense because it doesn't matter if they look like 30, 40, 50 or 70, they probably have more experience than humans that look that age.

One more thing, that is a little bit unrelated, but I actually can get behind is:
4. The amount of babies - If a race has much longer lifespans, nature will probably correct the amount of babies or how fast you can get pregnant. In other words: If a race lives 10 times longer, it probably (but not necessarily) means, that overall there will be 10 times less babies. Just so it doesn't get overpopulated.

Are there more arguments? 
What do you guys think?
What does Intrepid think?

Comments

  • Howdy!!!!

    Not the topic I was expecting tbh lol but I never really gave it much thought about it!

    I guess it really comes down to the Lore you are taking from Many games have different type of Lore!!!

    You also got to take in the Theory perhaps in their eyes time is speed up also got to take in account do they use the same method we use!? When counting years etc.. Perhaps 50 years to them is 5 years Who knows Far as we know they can Age faster then regular humans!

    you said " What kind of (Nature) would create a race"

    Have you never read the bible? spoiler alert God a d*ck! lol sorry if this offends anyone ( but he wasn't the nicest guy )
  • O.O < My face right now form reading this topic .

    Anyways - everything that JcTruper said in terms of the AoC universe I agree with xD

    In addition - words and the meanings behind "child" and "adult" are social constructions by people which varies over time - for example back on the days when 'kids' were working in mines were more seen as adults than children where as today they would 100% be categorised as children. Usually when a species hit s puberty that is when they are considered to be adult. However the exciting thing about humanoid intellectual species is that we can really talk about mental development - which develops differently at a different pace for everyone. Hence being a child is cut of at 18 now usually and heck your still a young adult till your about 25 because your brain is still maturing then boom your finally seen as an adult. But it varies for individuals and through out history our perspectives change.

    Sooooo in terms of magical creatures the concept of child and adult will vary species to species and be even more complex because species will apply their own social meaning to other races xD

    Classic Example - Adult Human sees Adult Hobbit as a Child and finds it very difficult to see them as an adult because they are so small 'like a child'.

    So to a dwarf a 'child elf' might look like an adult but to an 'adult elf' they look like a child.

    So not only will age be influenced but the concept of time and laws of nature, but also varies with the sociological construction of all races :D

    Therefore you can have fun writing your own ideas if lore doesn't bring an answer for you xD
  • O.O < My face right now form reading this topic . ^^

    Anyways - everything that JcTruper said in terms of the AoC universe I agree with xD

    In addition - words and the meanings behind "child" and "adult" are social constructions by people which varies over time - for example back on the days when 'kids' were working in mines were more seen as adults than children where as today they would 100% be categorised as children. Usually when a species hit s puberty that is when they are considered to be adult. However the exciting thing about humanoid intellectual species is that we can really talk about mental development - which develops differently at a different pace for everyone. Hence being a child is cut of at 18 now usually and heck your still a young adult till your about 25 because your brain is still maturing then boom your finally seen as an adult. But it varies for individuals and through out history our perspectives change.

    Sooooo in terms of magical creatures the concept of child and adult will vary species to species and be even more complex because species will apply their own social meaning to other races xD

    Classic Example - Adult Human sees Adult Hobbit as a Child and finds it very difficult to see them as an adult because they are so small 'like a child'.

    So to a dwarf a 'child elf' might look like an adult but to an 'adult elf' they look like a child.

    So not only will age be influenced but the concept of time and laws of nature, but also varies with the sociological construction of all races :D

    Therefore you can have fun writing your own ideas if lore doesn't bring an answer for you xD
  • O.O < My face right now form reading this topic .

    Anyways - everything that JcTruper said in terms of the AoC universe I agree with xD

    In addition - words and the meanings behind "child" and "adult" are social constructions by people which varies over time - for example back on the days when 'kids' were working in mines were more seen as adults than children where as today they would 100% be categorised as children. Usually when a species hit s puberty that is when they are considered to be adult. However the exciting thing about humanoid intellectual species is that we can really talk about mental development - which develops differently at a different pace for everyone. Hence being a child is cut of at 18 now usually and heck your still a young adult till your about 25 because your brain is still maturing then boom your finally seen as an adult. But it varies for individuals and through out history our perspectives change.

    Sooooo in terms of magical creatures the concept of child and adult will vary species to species and be even more complex because species will apply their own social meaning to other races xD

    Classic Example - Adult Human sees Adult Hobbit as a Child and finds it very difficult to see them as an adult because they are so small 'like a child'.

    So to a dwarf a 'child elf' might look like an adult but to an 'adult elf' they look like a child.

    So not only will age be influenced but the concept of time and laws of nature, but also varies with the sociological construction of all races :D

    Therefore you can have fun writing your own ideas if lore doesn't bring an answer for you xD :)
  • O.O < My face right now form reading this topic .

    Anyways - everything that JcTruper said in terms of the AoC universe I agree with xD

    In addition - words and the meanings behind "child" and "adult" are social constructions by people which varies over time - for example back on the days when 'kids' were working in mines were more seen as adults than children where as today they would 100% be categorised as children. Usually when a species hit s puberty that is when they are considered to be adult. However the exciting thing about humanoid intellectual species is that we can really talk about mental development - which develops differently at a different pace for everyone. Hence being a child is cut of at 18 now usually and heck your still a young adult till your about 25 because your brain is still maturing then boom your finally seen as an adult. But it varies for individuals and through out history our perspectives change.

    Sooooo in terms of magical creatures the concept of child and adult will vary species to species and be even more complex because species will apply their own social meaning to other races xD

    Classic Example - Adult Human sees Adult Hobbit as a Child and finds it very difficult to see them as an adult because they are so small 'like a child'.

    So to a dwarf a 'child elf' might look like an adult but to an 'adult elf' they look like a child.

    So not only will age be influenced but the concept of time and laws of nature, but also varies with the sociological construction of all races :D
    Therefore you can have fun writing your own ideas if lore doesn't bring an answer for you xD
  • O.O < My face right now form reading this topic .

    Anyways - everything that JcTruper said in terms of the AoC universe I agree with xD
    In addition - words and the meanings behind "child" and "adult" are social constructions by people which varies over time - for example back on the days when 'kids' were working in mines were more seen as adults than children where as today they would 100% be categorised as children. Usually when a species hit s puberty that is when they are considered to be adult. However the exciting thing about humanoid intellectual species is that we can really talk about mental development - which develops differently at a different pace for everyone. Hence being a child is cut of at 18 now usually and heck your still a young adult till your about 25 because your brain is still maturing then boom your finally seen as an adult. But it varies for individuals and through out history our perspectives change.
    Sooooo in terms of magical creatures the concept of child and adult will vary species to species and be even more complex because species will apply their own social meaning to other races xD
    Classic Example - Adult Human sees Adult Hobbit as a Child and finds it very difficult to see them as an adult because they are so small 'like a child'.
    So to a dwarf a 'child elf' might look like an adult but to an 'adult elf' they look like a child.
    So not only will age be influenced but the concept of time and laws of nature, but also varies with the sociological construction of all races :D
    Therefore you can have fun writing your own ideas if lore doesn't bring an answer for you xD
  • O.O My face right now form reading this topic .

    Anyways - everything that JcTruper said in terms of the AoC universe I agree with xD

    In addition - words and the meanings behind "child" and "adult" are social constructions by people which varies over time - for example back on the days when 'kids' were working in mines were more seen as adults than children where as today they would 100% be categorised as children. Usually when a species hit s puberty that is when they are considered to be adult. However the exciting thing about humanoid intellectual species is that we can really talk about mental development - which develops differently at a different pace for everyone. Hence being a child is cut of at 18 now usually and heck your still a young adult till your about 25 because your brain is still maturing then boom your finally seen as an adult. But it varies for individuals and through out history our perspectives change.
    Sooooo in terms of magical creatures the concept of child and adult will vary species to species and be even more complex because species will apply their own social meaning to other races xD
    Classic Example - Adult Human sees Adult Hobbit as a Child and finds it very difficult to see them as an adult because they are so small 'like a child'.
    So to a dwarf a 'child elf' might look like an adult but to an 'adult elf' they look like a child.
    So not only will age be influenced but the concept of time and laws of nature, but also varies with the sociological construction of all races :D
    Therefore you can have fun writing your own ideas if lore doesn't bring an answer for you xD
  • O.O < My face right now form reading this topic .

    Anyways - everything that JcTruper said in terms of the AoC universe I agree with xD

    In addition - words and the meanings behind "child" and "adult" are social constructions by people which varies over time - for example back on the days when 'kids' were working in mines were more seen as adults than children where as today they would 100percent be categorised as children. Usually when a species hit s puberty that is when they are considered to be adult. However the exciting thing about humanoid intellectual species is that we can really talk about mental development - which develops differently at a different pace for everyone. Hence being a child is cut of at 18 now usually and heck your still a young adult till your about 25 because your brain is still maturing then boom your finally seen as an adult. But it varies for individuals and through out history our perspectives change.
    Sooooo in terms of magical creatures the concept of child and adult will vary species to species and be even more complex because species will apply their own social meaning to other races xD
    Classic Example - Adult Human sees Adult Hobbit as a Child and finds it very difficult to see them as an adult because they are so small 'like a child'.
    So to a dwarf a 'child elf' might look like an adult but to an 'adult elf' they look like a child.
    So not only will age be influenced but the concept of time and laws of nature, but also varies with the sociological construction of all races :D
    Therefore you can have fun writing your own ideas if lore doesn't bring an answer for you xD
  • O.O < My face right now form reading this topic .

    Anyways - everything that JcTruper said in terms of the AoC universe I agree with xD

    In addition - words and the meanings behind "child" and "adult" are social constructions by people which varies over time - for example back on the days when 'kids' were working in mines were more seen as adults than children where as today they would 100% be categorised as children. Usually when a species hit s puberty that is when they are considered to be adult. However the exciting thing about humanoid intellectual species is that we can really talk about mental development - which develops differently at a different pace for everyone. Hence being a child is cut of at 18 now usually and heck your still a young adult till your about 25 because your brain is still maturing then boom your finally seen as an adult. But it varies for individuals and through out history our perspectives change.

    Sooooo in terms of magical creatures the concept of child and adult will vary species to species and be even more complex because species will apply their own social meaning to other races xD

    Classic Example - Adult Human sees Adult Hobbit as a Child and finds it very difficult to see them as an adult because they are so small 'like a child'.

    So to a dwarf a 'child elf' might look like an adult but to an 'adult elf' they look like a child.

    So not only will age be influenced but the concept of time and laws of nature, but also varies with the sociological construction of all races :D

    Therefore you can have fun writing your own ideas if lore doesn't bring an answer for you xD

    I tried editing this so many times to make it post .-. Come on cookiepost monster :/
  • O.O < My face right now form reading this topic .

    In addition to everything said above -words and the meanings behind "child" and "adult" are social constructions by people which varies over time - for example back on the days when 'kids' were working in mines were more seen as adults than children where as today they would 100% be categorised as children. Usually when a species hit s puberty that is when they are considered to be adult. However the exciting thing about humanoid intellectual species is that we can really talk about mental development - which develops differently at a different pace for everyone. Hence being a child is cut of at 18 now usually and heck your still a young adult till your about 25 because your brain is still maturing then boom your finally seen as an adult. But it varies for individuals and through out history our perspectives change.

    Sooooo in terms of magical creatures the concept of child and adult will vary species to species and be even more complex because species will apply their own social meaning to other races xD

    Classic Example - Adult Human sees Adult Hobbit as a Child and finds it very difficult to see them as an adult because they are so small 'like a child'.

    So to a dwarf a 'child elf' might look like an adult but to an 'adult elf' they look like a child.

    So not only will age be influenced but the concept of time and laws of nature, but also varies with the sociological construction of all races :D

    Therefore you can have fun writing your own ideas if lore doesn't bring an answer for you xD
  • O.O < My face right now form reading this topic .

    Anyways - everything that JcTruper said in terms of the AoC universe I agree with xD

    In addition - words and the meanings behind "child" and "adult" are social constructions by people which varies over time - for example back on the days when 'kids' were working in mines were more seen as adults than children where as today they would 100% be categorised as children. Usually when a species hit s puberty that is when they are considered to be adult. However the exciting thing about humanoid intellectual species is that we can really talk about mental development - which develops differently at a different pace for everyone. Hence being a child is cut of at 18 now usually and heck your still a young adult till your about 25 because your brain is still maturing then boom your finally seen as an adult. But it varies for individuals and through out history our perspectives change.

    Sooooo in terms of magical creatures the concept of child and adult will vary species to species and be even more complex because species will apply their own social meaning to other races xD

    Classic Example - Adult Human sees Adult Hobbit as a Child and finds it very difficult to see them as an adult because they are so small 'like a child'.

    So to a dwarf a 'child elf' might look like an adult but to an 'adult elf' they look like a child.

    So not only will age be influenced but the concept of time and laws of nature, but also varies with the sociological construction of all races :D

    Therefore you can have fun writing your own ideas if lore doesn't bring an answer
  • O.O < My face right now form reading this topic .

    Anyways - everything that JcTruper said in terms of the AoC universe I agree with xD

    In addition - words and the meanings behind "child" and "adult" are social constructions by people which varies over time - for example back on the days when 'kids' were working in mines were more seen as adults than children where as today they would 100% be categorised as children. Usually when a species hit s puberty that is when they are considered to be adult. However the exciting thing about humanoid intellectual species is that we can really talk about mental development - which develops differently at a different pace for everyone. Hence being a child is cut of at 18 now usually and heck your still a young adult till your about 25 because your brain is still maturing then boom your finally seen as an adult. But it varies for individuals and through out history our perspectives change.
  • :( cookiepost monster won't let me respond to this thread D:

    O.O < My face right now form reading this topic .

    Anyways - everything that JcTruper said in terms of the AoC universe I agree with xD

    In addition - words and the meanings behind "child" and "adult" are social constructions by people which varies over time - for example back on the days when 'kids' were working in mines were more seen as adults than children where as today they would 100% be categorised as children. Usually when a species hit s puberty that is when they are considered to be adult. However the exciting thing about humanoid intellectual species is that we can really talk about mental development - which develops differently at a different pace for everyone. Hence being a child is cut of at 18 now usually and heck your still a young adult till your about 25 because your brain is still maturing then boom your finally seen as an adult. But it varies for individuals and through out history our perspectives change.

    Sooooo in terms of magical creatures the concept of child and adult will vary species to species and be even more complex because species will apply their own social meaning to other races xD

    Classic Example - Adult Human sees Adult Hobbit as a Child and finds it very difficult to see them as an adult because they are so small 'like a child'.

    So to a dwarf a 'child elf' might look like an adult but to an 'adult elf' they look like a child.

    So not only will age be influenced but the concept of time and laws of nature, but also varies with the sociological construction of all races :D

    Therefore you can have fun writing your own ideas if lore doesn't bring an answer for you xD
  • O.O < My face right now form reading this topic .

    In addition - words and the meanings behind "child" and "adult" are social constructions by people which varies over time - for example back on the days when 'kids' were working in mines were more seen as adults than children where as today they would 100% be categorised as children. Usually when a species hit s puberty that is when they are considered to be adult. However the exciting thing about humanoid intellectual species is that we can really talk about mental development - which develops differently at a different pace for everyone. Hence being a child is cut of at 18 now usually and heck your still a young adult till your about 25 because your brain is still maturing then boom your finally seen as an adult. But it varies for individuals and through out history our perspectives change.

    Sooooo in terms of magical creatures the concept of child and adult will vary species to species and be even more complex because species will apply their own social meaning to other races xD

    Classic Example - Adult Human sees Adult Hobbit as a Child and finds it very difficult to see them as an adult because they are so small 'like a child'.

    So to a dwarf a 'child elf' might look like an adult but to an 'adult elf' they look like a child.

    So not only will age be influenced but the concept of time and laws of nature, but also varies with the sociological construction of all races :D

    Therefore you can have fun writing your own ideas if lore doesn't bring an answer for you xD
  • Nope forum cookiepost monster wins so mega summary xD

    Concept of adulthood and childhood are social constructions changing over time. Example a child going down in the mines back in the day woulda be considered to be an adult whereas today we see as children. Most species are considered adult once they hit puberty but humans are now able to distinguish that humans brain development continues to mature after puberty hence has influenced our opinion on what makes a child a child etc.

    In a fantasy world this could mean multiple social constructions for each race and between.

    Classic example
    Adult human sees a hobbit as a child because they are child like in appearance - but ofc adults.
    Adult dwarf might see a child elf as an adult but to an elf that elf is a child.

    So in short not only do you need to consider laws of nature and boldoigy clocks you got a social aspect to contend with too xD

    So for RP if there is no lore to satisfy you can social construct your own concepts xD
  • Omg I tried to reply like 30 times to this xD mega short summary from my 10 essays
    Adulthood and childhood are social constructions ^^
    Different race might have their own social constructions and with many different intellectual species they may have different points of view.
    Classic example is human adult sees an adult hobbit as a child because they have childlike appearance^^ obviously the hobbit isn't a child,
    So not only does laws of nature and your biological clock play a role on adulthood and childhood - social constructions are equally important and if your stuck with available lore you can always create your own social construction to satisfy your stories xD
  • Nah...you got it right.... all elves are simply dumb ;)
    :D
  • <blockquote>I guess it really comes down to the Lore you are taking from Many games have different type of Lore!!!</blockquote>

    @JcTruper Yeah.. at the end the Lore dictates it, which is why I am interested in what Intrepid thinks about it. The problems are generated when the Lore does not state how it is.
    Example: Dude A thinks to himself "okay... I wanna roleplay an elven guy. But I sure don't pretend that I can believably play him as a hundreds of years old wise guru... so I play him as a 30 year old elven dude"... which is perfectly fine in my opinion. So Dude A wanders around like that and Dude B, learning his characters age, shrieks out "omg, you should totally still be pooping into diapers... you cant be just 30 years old".... aaaand frusttrating discussion with no achievable goal following.

    <blockquote>You also got to take in the Theory perhaps in their eyes time is speed up</blockquote>

    I don't see how that is possible or makes any difference. If it is majorly different, they probably wouldnt be able to even communicate with other races. If you mean: Years fly by more fastly, like its for us humans when we get older (seriously... 1 year seemed much longer 20 years ago), then yes.. that may be, but -- in the moment -- they will experience it at the same pace, right? So it makes no difference!?

    <blockquote> also got to take in account do they use the same method we use!? When counting years etc.. Perhaps 50 years to them is 5 years</blockquote>

    That of course is true and you would have to break the calendar years down to something measurable for both. I only know it, when all races use the same calendar and therefore all races years are equally long. Probably because it's more easy. And all of my arguments base on the same amount of time per year counted, even if they could have racially based different length of years.

    @Diura: Yeah.. that can confuse, too. But that is something you can even roleplay. In character a human might mistake and adult dwarf for a child. Thats totally possible and would probably make for a fun rp-conversation. But what I am getting at is not within the roleplay. It is about misunderstanding of the players that roleplay, and therefore create out of character conflict.
  • I'm not much of a Role player to say, but I can sorta see why this would be an issue talking about age and such!

    @Rune_Relic LOL!!!
  • Well... In mechanics subforum I posted my idea of reincarnation system. I think these 2 systems could be merged in some way :).
  • So I read something a while back that could solve your lore problems.
    While I'm not a biologist and could get some terms wrong, you're going to have to live with it =)
    In super basic form, at the end of each DNA strand is what they call a Telomere, and the rate of Telomere decay is what determines aging rate once you have hit full growth.
    So, the child to young adulthood stage could take exactly the same time for all races, but maybe some of the longer liver races just have super slow Telomere decay rate?
  • @DingoVIII nice.. a biological explanation for my "growing up does not equal aging" statement. Thanks for that.

    In the end I guess this can only then really be solved, if the lore Intrepid creates supports arguments (whatever they might be). If they simply don't there will be unnecessary conflict here and there.

    If they should choose to support an argument supporting elves pooping into diapers for 50 years, roleplay has to adjust for that. I sure hope that won't be the case, though :)
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