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Dry firing abilities
ArchivedUser
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<strong>Will we be able to "dry fire" (use without target) all spells and abilities?</strong>
I fully understand that some games disallow this by default, since if you miscast your ability on a small pebble during a critical boss/PvP fight, it will be frustrating. However, the games which handle this well do something like allow you to hit Shift + Skill key to override target requirements.
Furthermore, I find it to be very immersion breaking and lazy UI design the way some games simply have a message "target required" pop up. I know a skill like life-drain or teleport-to-target can be tricky to convey without a target, but having something like the ability to cast life-drain with no target, and instead the grass around you turns brown and you gain 1hp, is vastly more fun, immersive, and better storytelling than having text pop up.
I fully understand that some games disallow this by default, since if you miscast your ability on a small pebble during a critical boss/PvP fight, it will be frustrating. However, the games which handle this well do something like allow you to hit Shift + Skill key to override target requirements.
Furthermore, I find it to be very immersion breaking and lazy UI design the way some games simply have a message "target required" pop up. I know a skill like life-drain or teleport-to-target can be tricky to convey without a target, but having something like the ability to cast life-drain with no target, and instead the grass around you turns brown and you gain 1hp, is vastly more fun, immersive, and better storytelling than having text pop up.
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So I want say yes their will be some free aim spells ( game is still in pre-alpha so not alot of information is given out yet! )
Hope this helps
Very common example: a melee-type skill that has a warrior jump at the target. If there's no target, you can handle this in several ways:
1. Completely refuse to let player use skill; have an error message pop up on screen
e.g. "No valid target" message - this is what I consider the worst option. It blocks logical utility and breaks immersion.
2. Have a symbolic representation of the skill with minimal effect
e.g. take a mini-jump half a step forward. This still curbs utility, but at least is much better design feedback than a text error.
3. Have the player jump directly, maybe not to max distance, but 3/4 of it or so.
This requires some additional programming to prevent exploitation, but it is vastly more immersive. If my character is a warrior who can leap onto enemies, it makes perfect sense that he would be able to leap that way even if an enemy wasn't there.
Those options aside, there is still a key consideration that players often do not want to have a tab-target skill used free-form, since it can mean an important skill doesn't hit the right target. The solution most games that address this use, is to have the player press something like SHIFT + [skill hotkey] to use a tab skill in free-form. It's far less about action combat than it is for immersion and occasional utility, but it's much more fun in general to be able to play around with and test skills without needing a specific enemy present to achieve a desired effect.
<strong><ul>
I'd like to also point out that this is HUGELY important for anyone who makes machinima.</ul></strong> The ability to have characters behave as you need them to do so (in terms of normal game performance) without juggling another enemy is crucial.
So, that's pretty much my point and concern. It's not so much a game mechanic/playstyle issue as it is a design issue.
Very common example: a melee-type skill that has a warrior jump at the target. If there's no target, you can handle this in several ways:
1. Completely refuse to let player use skill; have an error message pop up on screen
e.g. "No valid target" message - this is what I consider the worst option. It blocks logical utility and breaks immersion.
2. Have a symbolic representation of the skill with minimal effect
e.g. take a mini-jump half a step forward. This still curbs utility, but at least is much better design feedback than a text error.
3. Have the player jump directly, maybe not to max distance, but 3/4 of it or so.
This requires some additional programming to prevent exploitation, but it is vastly more immersive. If my character is a warrior who can leap onto enemies, it makes perfect sense that he would be able to leap that way even if an enemy wasn't there.
Those options aside, there is still a key consideration that players often do not want to have a tab-target skill used free-form, since it can mean an important skill doesn't hit the right target. The solution most games that address this use, is to have the player press something like SHIFT + [skill hotkey] to use a tab skill in free-form. It's far less about action combat than it is for immersion and occasional utility, but it's much more fun in general to be able to play around with and test skills without needing a specific enemy present to achieve a desired effect.
<ul>
I'd like to also point out that this is HUGELY important for anyone who makes machinima.</ul> The ability to have characters behave as you need them to do so (in terms of normal game performance) without juggling another enemy is crucial.
So, that's pretty much my point and concern. It's not so much a game mechanic/playstyle issue as it is a design issue.
Very common example: a melee-type skill that has a warrior jump at the target. If there's no target, you can handle this in several ways:
1. Completely refuse to let player use skill; have an error message pop up on screen
e.g. "No valid target" message - this is what I consider the worst option. It blocks logical utility and breaks immersion.
2. Have a symbolic representation of the skill with minimal effect
e.g. take a mini-jump half a step forward. This still curbs utility, but at least is much better design feedback than a text error.
3. Have the player jump directly, maybe not to max distance, but 3/4 of it or so.
This requires some additional programming to prevent exploitation, but it is vastly more immersive. If my character is a warrior who can leap onto enemies, it makes perfect sense that he would be able to leap that way even if an enemy wasn't there.
Those options aside, there is still a key consideration that players often do not want to have a tab-target skill used free-form, since it can mean an important skill doesn't hit the right target. The solution most games that address this use, is to have the player press something like SHIFT + [skill hotkey] to use a tab skill in free-form. It's far less about action combat than it is for immersion and occasional utility, but it's much more fun in general to be able to play around with and test skills without needing a specific enemy present to achieve a desired effect.
<strong>I'd like to also point out that this is HUGELY important for anyone who makes machinima.</strong> The ability to have characters behave as you need them to do so (in terms of normal game performance) without juggling another enemy is crucial.
So, that's pretty much my point and concern. It's not so much a game mechanic/playstyle issue as it is a design issue.
Very common example: a melee-type skill that has a warrior jump at the target. If there's no target, you can handle this in several ways:
1. Refuse to let player use the skill; have error message appear
2. Have a symbolic representation of the skill with minimal effect
3. Have the player jump directly, maybe not to max distance, but 3/4 of it or so.
Those options aside, there is still a key consideration that players often do not want to have a tab-target skill used free-form, since it can mean an important skill doesn't hit the right target. The solution most games that address this use, is to have the player press something like SHIFT + [skill hotkey] to use a tab skill in free-form. It's far less about action combat than it is for immersion and occasional utility, but it's much more fun in general to be able to play around with and test skills without needing a specific enemy present to achieve a desired effect.
I bring this up because it is HUGELY important for anyone who makes machinima. The ability to have characters behave as you need them to do so (in terms of normal game performance) without juggling another enemy is crucial.
So, that's pretty much my point and concern. It's not so much a game mechanic/playstyle issue as it is a design issue.
Anyways hmm Thats a good question one I can't really answer I think that be amazing specially for people like you who make content on youtube daily!
I suggest you post that! question <a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/official-livestream-qa-question-thread-may-30-2017/" target="_blank">HERE</a>
and hopefully they will answer that question on Tuesday Live Stream at 3pm PDT
Sorry I couldnt been much help :(
Sometimes its nice just to see which combinations of skills you like, or simply see what happens when you do.
I would want to do it in a safe place though.....or pay the price.
The main problem is the clowns that want to grief people crafting and that kind of thing.
You could say PvP can sort that out.... but many simply aren't always in the mood for PvP.
Especially when they are doing something else....LIKE CRAFTING!
Jumping forward is like a rush or blink... neither of which should require a target. They just literally move the character forward xx feet.
Easy enough to have practice dummies as targets to hone your skills. NWO had them.
Seems like a taunt is going to require a target.
Unless it's an AoE... which again will likely have a "telegraph" that outlines the area affected.
Same for a fireball. Most likely that will require a target. Or it will be an AoE with a "telegraph".
I suppose it's possible there will be some "free aim" abilities where the targets are determined by aiming a reticle.
But, I think those would be separate abilities rather than an ability that changes targeting functionality via a hotkey.
We certainly won't be able to dry fire all spells and abilities.
I've never seen a "target required" pop-up. Seems easy enough to just dim the icon when there is no target and highlight the icon when there is a target, similar to a cooldown.
a) need to be implemented as full working action combat mechanic, which leads to the question why implement tab target combat in first case.
b) let the player perform a scripted animation without any effect, which would be really annoying during real combat situations as it can easily happen to loose a target during combat.
@Rune_Relic how would this support griefing in an extended way compared to tab target the crafting person and attack him anyway?
I was just having vision in the market place firing skills off skills all over the place for the hell of it.
Not just targetting someone specifically.
More by accidental stupidity or general griefing to get a rise out of someone.
Tab targettting you have to pick someone one at a time.
That might be fun to do in the market place. Especially as a fireworks display.
@Dygz I don't think we're completely on the same page, although I understand your point about the grass. I'm primarily talking about allowing skills to be used in a representative way for design, roleplay, and especially machinima purposes. It's not uncommon in games with a tab-target system to allow this in some form. As for games that have a "no target" error appear, it's unfortunately very common in Asian games. Even newer ones like Revelation Online have it, which I consider to be a poor/lazy UI choice.
Since the overall combat system isn't finished, I'm not so much expecting a final answer here, so much as trying to bring up the consideration and importance of planning for design toolsets (esp. for machinima) in advance, as these elements can be very difficult to add after optimization.
A lot to think about!
@dygzI don’t think we’re completely on the same page, although I understand your point about the grass. I’m primarily talking about allowing skills to be used in a representative way for design, roleplay, and especially machinima purposes. It’s not uncommon in games with a tab-target system to allow this in some form. As for games that have a “no target” error appear, it’s unfortunately very common in Asian games. Even newer ones like Revelation Online have it, which I consider to be a poor/lazy UI choice.
Since the overall combat system isn’t finished, I’m not so much expecting a final answer here, so much as trying to bring up the consideration and importance of planning for design toolsets (esp. for machinima) in advance, as these elements can be very difficult to add after optimization.</blockquote>
I think we're basically on the same page... I don't think the devs are going to accommodate your vision.
I think the dev expectation will be that you make machinima by taking advantage of how the abilities are designed to work while playing the game normally rather than special mechanics to change the functionality of abilities for machinima or "theatre RP".
But, I could be wrong. You should definitely ask the devs about their plans for machinima tools and - champion your vision.
Worse case scenario is that they continue to say no. And you might even change their minds.
The devs don't seem to be pulling ideas from Asian games.
That being said, the mage video does show pop-ups for:
"You are not facing your tartget." and "You are too far away."
You might be able to toggle those message off, though, or toggle off the hud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHTWhIF5cqI
The mage bubble barrier seems to be a self-target AoE.
The fireballs and most of the other mage spells I've seen seem to require a target - unless they are AoEs.
Even terrain objects - there was some kind of pit the mage destroyed with fireballs, but that object had health.
There is one clip at mark 1:15, where the mage seems to cast a spell on a rock without the rock being a target, but I don't know how that is triggered. Same for the treasure chest at mark 2:00.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/145224977 mark 32:15 Mage
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/146939268 mark 42:30 Ranger
So far, it looks like it's either self-target AoE or tab-target/point-and-click target.
Even the Ranger's bow is not free aim, like NWO or Landmark.
And for terrain, we can't just target any tree or any rock or the ground itself.
But, it's early, so we just have to keep our eyes open for new videos and also try to get some answers from the devs.