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Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Bounty Hunting
Hello fellow Ashes lovers!
I've been spending a lot of time pondering the ways I'd like to enjoy the game, as I'm sure we all have. My imagination of character creation and love for PvP often leave me considering the execution of this "bounty hunting" that the Intrepid team often talks about.
I absolutely love the idea of this and haven't had the privilege of playing an MMO that included such a system. However, I am finding its mechanics questionable. Through watching the Q&A and the videos surrounding the game, it seems as though the "corruption" punishment for griefing is already going to be quite high, even before considering that there are players who will be "hunting" you for their bounty hunting objectives.
My question (which could have already been answered. If so, I am sorry and please direct me to it) is: With the huge burden already put on the plays through the "corruption" flag, is there anything that will promote or enable griefing? I have this feeling that, shortly after release, people will recognize how easy it is for your griefing to be punished and because of that, completely stop doing it. If that happens, what happens to the bounty hunters?
Cheers to 13,000 (almost 14,000) backers!
I've been spending a lot of time pondering the ways I'd like to enjoy the game, as I'm sure we all have. My imagination of character creation and love for PvP often leave me considering the execution of this "bounty hunting" that the Intrepid team often talks about.
I absolutely love the idea of this and haven't had the privilege of playing an MMO that included such a system. However, I am finding its mechanics questionable. Through watching the Q&A and the videos surrounding the game, it seems as though the "corruption" punishment for griefing is already going to be quite high, even before considering that there are players who will be "hunting" you for their bounty hunting objectives.
My question (which could have already been answered. If so, I am sorry and please direct me to it) is: With the huge burden already put on the plays through the "corruption" flag, is there anything that will promote or enable griefing? I have this feeling that, shortly after release, people will recognize how easy it is for your griefing to be punished and because of that, completely stop doing it. If that happens, what happens to the bounty hunters?
Cheers to 13,000 (almost 14,000) backers!
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Comments
Steven & The Developer's wants something meaning full!! They want PVP to have a meaningful reason to engage actions
not just some random person killing people because who cares right...... ( why the bounty hunter system was added to punish this kind of action!! )
I honestly doubt that people will just stop going corrupt personally if it was this easy to kill a troll then their would be no more trolls!!
Steven & The Developer’s wants something meaning full!! They want PVP to have a meaningful reason to engage actions
not just some random person killing people because who cares right…… ( why the bounty hunter system was added to punish this kind of action!! )
I honestly doubt that people will just stop going corrupt personally if it was this easy to kill a troll then their would be no more trolls!!
</blockquote>
Thanks for the response!!
I know it's early, but I didn't want to assume this question wasn't answered. While I know I have been keeping up with the streams and Q&A, it's always possible for something to sneak through the cracks of my understanding.
I know that, personally, outplaying someone in a 1v1 is the ultimate reward in a game like this. For that reason, the reduced combat effectiveness of the "corruption" would be enough to keep me from trolling. I guess I'm just giving the population too much credit to think that giving something like griefing no reward would dissuade people from doing it. However, like you said, there will always be the trolls for the "bounty hunters" to stay busy with.
:)
I know Intrepid has spent a lot of time on the topic of "meaningful conflict" and that's what worries me the most about the bounty hunting. There is no meaning behind griefing other than, as you mentioned, being a troll. It's possible that I am giving the community too much credit to think that something like the corruption flag having no bonus and all negative effects would, in itself, deter people from griefing before the aspect of player guided "bounty hunters" would ever cross their mind.
Just a theory that I was mulling over in my head, but as you said, wayyy to early to form any concrete opinions.
Thanks for the response!
As Intrepid wants to encourage some RPVP, what would be the incentive to go after players who are flagged Combatant? Please let's know in advance that getting a player to leave your mob grinding spot, etc... is already considered, by me.
(i.e. Giving the Corrupted Player some chance to escape )
However, In order to depict this ... "Thrill-of-the-Chase" ... I'd always figured that they would have to implement other ideas - such as Environmental Interactions - like Climbing Trees, Running along the Treetops, Swing on Vines, Swimming underwater passages, etc ... All-in-all, trying to stall time until Corrupted Name is gone and Loot is kept
Rather than Evasive-Action ... i suppose it'll also be based on Combat Style and/or Animation too ?
How do you envision a Bounty Hunt? Just "Seek-&-Destroy" without any other elements in the MMO World ?
2. murder hobos will no enjoy this system as repeated murder would make them useless.
3. Assassins are not so crippled, as their action is targetted, one off event, trying to influence the node rather than attacking people for the fun of it.
4. The corruption penalty associated with assassination, still marks you out for bounty hunting and weakens you with potential gear loss to a less degree. But the bounty hunter accuracy is also determined by their skill level as a bounty hunter, and assassins will have rather beneficial skills at their disposal to help in this regard.
That's the way I see it anyway. I hope you can now see the difference between meaningful PvP and mass ganking.
In one you attack the player for fun.
In one you attack a position of office for a reason.
</blockquote>
Please correct me if I am wrong because I admit to not knowing every minor detail.
With that being said, my concern is less with the mechanics, and more with incentives which make a "bandit" want to risk the "corruption" flag. I have not read, nor heard, much about players dropping items upon death outside those who have a heavy multiplied corruption flag which was listed by the dev team as a punishment for such tag.
When you mention the above, what loot does a "bandit" potentially keep if he does manage to evade the bounty hunters and allow his corruption debuff to expire?
Also, the term "bandit" was mentioned. Has the dev team mentioned that as another possible job type avenue (like bounty hunting)? My impression was bounty hunting was just a deterrent to the griefers.
<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/bounty-hunting-2/#post-30213">Rune_Relic wrote:</a></div>1. The need for assassination of a person in office who has influence over a node vs mass murder. You need to allow sporadic assassination without allowing mass murder. You do that by scaling the penalty.
2. murder hobos will no enjoy this system as repeated murder would make them useless.
3. Assassins are not so crippled, as their action is targetted, one off event, trying to influence the node rather than attacking people for the fun of it.
4. The corruption penalty associated with assassination, still marks you out for bounty hunting and weakens you with potential gear loss to a less degree. But the bounty hunter accuracy is also determined by their skill level as a bounty hunter, and assassins will have rather beneficial skills at their disposal to help in this regard.
That’s the way I see it anyway. I hope you can now see the difference between meaningful PvP and mass ganking.
In one you attack the player for fun.
In one you attack a position of office for a reason.
</blockquote>
These are great reasons that I hadn't thought of before. With political influence being as heavy of a theme as it is in Ashes, I could see this giving a person reason enough to take the corruption tag.
However, switching the focus to mechanics. I know it may be too early to present a question like this, but outside of an RP objective, has there been any discussion about the effectiveness of assassanatkng a party leader? I theory, the "cutting the head off of the dragon" theory in organized combat would have huge effectiveness. However, in the real world, you know that mayor is going to be in discord with people and his presence won't simply vanish because his in game charecter has died.
(Apologies for any formatting issues or typos. Responding from a phone)
</blockquote>
Please correct me if I am wrong because I admit to not knowing every minor detail.
With that being said, my concern is less with the mechanics, and more with incentives which make a "bandit" want to risk the "corruption" flag. I have not read, nor heard, much about players dropping items upon death outside those who have a heavy multiplied corruption flag which was listed by the dev team as a punishment for such tag.
When you mention the above, what loot does a "bandit" potentially keep if he does manage to evade the bounty hunters and allow his corruption debuff to expire?
Also, the term "bandit" was mentioned. Has the dev team mentioned that as another possible job type avenue (like bounty hunting)? My impression was bounty hunting was just a deterrent to the griefers.
<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/bounty-hunting-2/#post-30213">Rune_Relic wrote:</a></div>1. The need for assassination of a person in office who has influence over a node vs mass murder. You need to allow sporadic assassination without allowing mass murder. You do that by scaling the penalty.
2. murder hobos will no enjoy this system as repeated murder would make them useless.
3. Assassins are not so crippled, as their action is targetted, one off event, trying to influence the node rather than attacking people for the fun of it.
4. The corruption penalty associated with assassination, still marks you out for bounty hunting and weakens you with potential gear loss to a less degree. But the bounty hunter accuracy is also determined by their skill level as a bounty hunter, and assassins will have rather beneficial skills at their disposal to help in this regard.
That’s the way I see it anyway. I hope you can now see the difference between meaningful PvP and mass ganking.
In one you attack the player for fun.
In one you attack a position of office for a reason.
</blockquote>
These are great reasons that I hadn't thought of before. With political influence being as heavy of a theme as it is in Ashes, I could see this giving a person reason enough to take the corruption tag for an assassination.
However, switching the focus to mechanics. I know it may be too early to present a question like this, but outside of an RP objective, has there been any discussion about the effectiveness of assassinating a party leader? In theory, the "cutting the head off of the dragon" idea in organized combat would have huge effectiveness. However, in the real world, you know that "mayor" is going to be in discord with people and his presence won't simply vanish because his in game character has died.
Basically the TL;DR of this is: You list an assassination of a major figure as reward enough for the risk of being hunted during your "corruption flag," but has there been discussion of any measurable loot/gear/influence value to that act?
(Apologies for any formatting issues or typos. Responding from a phone)
</blockquote>
Please correct me if I am wrong because I admit to not knowing every minor detail.
With that being said, my concern is less with the mechanics, and more with incentives which make a "bandit" want to risk the "corruption" flag. I have not read, nor heard, much about players dropping items upon death outside those who have a heavy multiplied corruption flag which was listed by the dev team as a punishment for such tag.
When you mention the above, what loot does a "bandit" potentially keep if he does manage to evade the bounty hunters and allow his corruption debuff to expire?
Also, the term "bandit" was mentioned. Has the dev team mentioned that as another possible job type avenue (like bounty hunting)? My impression was bounty hunting was just a deterrent to the griefers.
</blockquote>
Please correct me if I am wrong because I admit to not knowing every minor detail.
With that being said, my concern is less with the mechanics, and more with incentives which make a "bandit" want to risk the "corruption" flag. I have not read, nor heard, much about players dropping items upon death outside those who have a heavy multiplied corruption flag which was listed by the dev team as a punishment for such tag.
When you mention the above, what loot does a "bandit" potentially keep if he does manage to evade the bounty hunters and allow his corruption debuff to expire?
Also, the term "bandit" was mentioned. Has the dev team mentioned that as another possible job type avenue (like bounty hunting)? My impression was bounty hunting was just a deterrent to the griefers.
<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/bounty-hunting-2/#post-30213">Rune_Relic wrote:</a></div>1. The need for assassination of a person in office who has influence over a node vs mass murder. You need to allow sporadic assassination without allowing mass murder. You do that by scaling the penalty.
2. murder hobos will no enjoy this system as repeated murder would make them useless.
3. Assassins are not so crippled, as their action is targetted, one off event, trying to influence the node rather than attacking people for the fun of it.
4. The corruption penalty associated with assassination, still marks you out for bounty hunting and weakens you with potential gear loss to a less degree. But the bounty hunter accuracy is also determined by their skill level as a bounty hunter, and assassins will have rather beneficial skills at their disposal to help in this regard.
That’s the way I see it anyway. I hope you can now see the difference between meaningful PvP and mass ganking.
In one you attack the player for fun.
In one you attack a position of office for a reason.
</blockquote>
These are great reasons that I hadn't thought of before. With political influence being as heavy of a theme as it is in Ashes, I could see this giving a person reason enough to take the corruption tag for an assassination.
However, switching the focus to mechanics. I know it may be too early to present a question like this, but outside of an RP objective, has there been any discussion about the effectiveness of assassinating a party leader? In theory, the "cutting the head off of the dragon" idea in organized combat would have huge effectiveness. However, in the real world, you know that "mayor" is going to be in discord with people and his presence won't simply vanish because his in game character has died.
Basically the TL;DR of this is: You list an assassination of a major figure as reward enough for the risk of being hunted during your "corruption flag," but has there been discussion of any measurable loot/gear/influence value to that act?
(Apologies for any formatting issues or typos. Responding from a phone)
2. murder hobos will no enjoy this system as repeated murder would make them useless.
3. Assassins are not so crippled, as their action is targetted, one off event, trying to influence the node rather than attacking people for the fun of it.
4. The corruption penalty associated with assassination, still marks you out for bounty hunting and weakens you with potential gear loss to a less degree. But the bounty hunter accuracy is also determined by their skill level as a bounty hunter, and assassins will have rather beneficial skills at their disposal to help in this regard.
That’s the way I see it anyway. I hope you can now see the difference between meaningful PvP and mass ganking.
In one you attack the player for fun.
In one you attack a position of office for a reason.
</blockquote>
2. murder hobos will no enjoy this system as repeated murder would make them useless.
3. Assassins are not so crippled, as their action is targetted, one off event, trying to influence the node rather than attacking people for the fun of it.
4. The corruption penalty associated with assassination, still marks you out for bounty hunting and weakens you with potential gear loss to a less degree. But the bounty hunter accuracy is also determined by their skill level as a bounty hunter, and assassins will have rather beneficial skills at their disposal to help in this regard.
That’s the way I see it anyway. I hope you can now see the difference between meaningful PvP and mass ganking.
In one you attack the player for fun.
In one you attack a position of office for a reason. </blockquote>
These are great reasons that I hadn't thought of before. With political influence being as heavy of a theme as it is in Ashes, I could see this giving a person reason enough to take the corruption tag for an assassination.
However, switching the focus to mechanics. I know it may be too early to present a question like this, but outside of an RP objective, has there been any discussion about the effectiveness of assassinating a party leader? In theory, the "cutting the head off of the dragon" idea in organized combat would have huge effectiveness. However, in the real world, you know that "mayor" is going to be in discord with people and his presence won't simply vanish because his in game character has died.
Basically the TL;DR of this is: You list an assassination of a major figure as reward enough for the risk of being hunted during your "corruption flag," but has there been discussion of any measurable loot/gear/influence value to that act?
(i.e. Giving the Corrupted Player some chance to escape )
However, In order to depict this … “Thrill-of-the-Chase” … I’d always figured that they would have to implement other ideas – such as Environmental Interactions – like Climbing Trees, Running along the Treetops, Swing on Vines, Swimming underwater passages, etc … All-in-all, trying to stall time until Corrupted Name is gone and Loot is kept
Rather than Evasive-Action … i suppose it’ll also be based on Combat Style and/or Animation too ?
How do you envision a Bounty Hunt? Just “Seek-&-Destroy” without any other elements in the MMO World ?
</blockquote>
Please correct me if I am wrong because I admit to not knowing every minor detail.
With that being said, my concern is less with the mechanics, and more with incentives which make a "bandit" want to risk the "corruption" flag. I have not read, nor heard, much about players dropping items upon death outside those who have a heavy multiplied corruption flag which was listed by the dev team as a punishment for such tag.
When you mention the above, what loot does a "bandit" potentially keep if he does manage to evade the bounty hunters and allow his corruption debuff to expire?
Also, the term "bandit" was mentioned. Has the dev team mentioned that as another possible job type avenue (like bounty hunting)? My impression was bounty hunting was just a deterrent to the griefers.
All-in-all, trying to stall time until Corrupted Name is gone and Loot is kept
</blockquote>
Please correct me if I am wrong because I admit to not knowing every minor detail.
With that being said, my concern is less with the mechanics, and more with incentives which make a "bandit" want to risk the "corruption" flag. I have not read, nor heard, much about players dropping items upon death outside those who have a heavy multiplied corruption flag which was listed by the dev team as a punishment for such tag.
When you mention the above, what loot does a "bandit" potentially keep if he does manage to evade the bounty hunters and allow his corruption debuff to expire?
Also, the term "bandit" was mentioned. Has the dev team mentioned that as another possible job type avenue (like bounty hunting)? My impression was bounty hunting was just a deterrent to the griefers.
That or ... they haven't gotten into it yet, and are still focusing on the Environmental Appearance
They have stated the node politics will be heavily determined by political intrigue as there would be no civil war available.
They have said not a thing about the methods of that political intrigue.
Node vs node politics may well involve competition in may ways.
But we do have this for the rogue/rangee hybrid or predator class...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehx6mQ-EiW4
I myself have been on three sides (the greifer/ the grieved/the bounty hunter) of the 'greifer/bounty hunter' scenario. I personally enjoy aspects of each
I myself have been on three sides (the greifer/ the grieved/the bounty hunter) of the ‘greifer/bounty hunter’ scenario. I personally enjoy aspects of each
</blockquote>
I agree with what you said that the idea of bandit/bounty hunter are two roles that I could see myself enjoying both sides of. Therefore, I could see there always being players doing both.
However, the mechanics seem to give less incentives for the "bandits" in that scenario. Which gives me the gut feeling that there will be less bandits
For example, in WoW, often attacking Goldshire/Razor Hill would lead to a high level reaction from the max level players. I loved being the attacker, and being rewarded by drawling out my enemies, and then besting the odds in some PvP. I feel that the aspect of "outplay" is the spice of PvP.
With that being said, the thing that is has made me question this system in Ashes is the lack of reward for the bandit players. By being the "aggressor" and drawling the bounty hunters out, you receive a "corruption" debuff that reduces your combat effectiveness. I don't think anyone likes to PvP with a static disadvantage like that. However, I could be wrong.
(As a disclaimer to all: My comments are based strictly off of the information so far presented. I am completely aware that we are pre alpha and the "Bandit/Bounty Hunter" interaction is most likely still being developed and/or information has yet to be released. I'm simply theorizing and excited to talk about this game with fellow hype train riders)
I personally think that as long as the mechanics exist, then there will be someone using them. if nothing else but to get bounty hunter to chase them. There are many people that get an adrenaline rush from having large amounts of people trying to hunt them down, and that alone is reward enough for them.
I myself have been on three sides (the greifer/ the grieved/the bounty hunter) of the ‘greifer/bounty hunter’ scenario. I personally enjoy aspects of each
</blockquote>
I agree with what you said that the idea of bandit/bounty hunter are two roles that I could see myself enjoying both sides of. Therefore, I could see there always being players doing both.
However, the mechanics seem to give less incentives for the "bandits" in that scenario. Which gives me the gut feeling that there will be less bandits
For example, in WoW, often attacking Goldshire/Razor Hill would lead to a high level reaction from the max level players. I loved being the attacker, and being rewarded by drawling out my enemies, and then besting the odds in some PvP. I feel that the aspect of "outplay" is the spice of PvP.
With that being said, the thing that is has made me question this system in Ashes is the lack of reward for the bandit players. By being the "aggressor" and drawling the bounty hunters out, you receive a "corruption" debuff that reduces your combat effectiveness. I don't think anyone likes to PvP with a static disadvantage like that. However, I could be wrong.
(As a disclaimer to all: My comments are based strictly off of the information so far presented. I am completely aware that we are pre alpha and the "Bandit/Bounty Hunter" interaction is most likely still being developed and/or information has yet to be released. I'm simply theorizing and excited to talk about this game with fellow hype train riders)
I personally think that as long as the mechanics exist, then there will be someone using them. if nothing else but to get bounty hunter to chase them. There are many people that get an adrenaline rush from having large amounts of people trying to hunt them down, and that alone is reward enough for them.
I myself have been on three sides (the greifer/ the grieved/the bounty hunter) of the ‘greifer/bounty hunter’ scenario. I personally enjoy aspects of each
</blockquote>
I agree with what you said that the idea of bandit/bounty hunter are two roles that I could see myself enjoying both sides of. Therefore, I could see there always being players doing both.
However, the mechanics seem to give less incentives for the "bandits" in that scenario. Which gives me the gut feeling that there will be less bandits
For example, in WoW, often attacking Goldshire/Razor Hill would lead to a high level reaction from the max level players. I loved being the attacker, and being rewarded by drawling out my enemies, and then besting the odds in some PvP. I feel that the aspect of "outplay" is the spice of PvP.
With that being said, the thing that is has made me question this system in Ashes is the lack of reward for the bandit players. By being the "aggressor" and drawling the bounty hunters out, you receive a "corruption" debuff that reduces your combat effectiveness. I don't think anyone likes to PvP with a static disadvantage like that. However, I could be wrong.
(As a disclaimer to all: My comments are based strictly off of the information so far presented. I am completely aware that we are pre alpha and the "Bandit/Bounty Hunter" interaction is most likely still being developed and/or information has yet to be released. I'm simply theorizing and excited to talk about this game with fellow hype train riders)
However, the mechanics seem to give less incentives for the "bandits" in that scenario. Which gives me the gut feeling that there will be less bandits
For example, in WoW, often attacking Goldshire/Razor Hill would lead to a high level reaction from the max level players. I loved being the attacker, and being rewarded by drawling out my enemies, and then besting the odds in some PvP. I feel that the aspect of "outplay" is the spice of PvP.
With that being said, the thing that is has made me question this system in Ashes is the lack of reward for the bandit players. By being the "aggressor" and drawling the bounty hunters out, you receive a "corruption" debuff that reduces your combat effectiveness. I don't think anyone likes to PvP with a static disadvantage like that. However, I could be wrong.
(As a disclaimer to all: My comments are based strictly off of the information so far presented. I am completely aware that we are pre alpha and the "Bandit/Bounty Hunter" interaction is most likely still being developed and/or information has yet to be released. I'm simply theorizing and excited to talk about this game with fellow hype train riders)
I do believe the bounty system should work on the level where if you are killed by a higher level character (like 10 levels above you) or a group v 1, you should be able to pay to add a bounty to a person. As that bounty adds up some people would have a huge price on their head for what others my deem griefing (I just call it pvp). If you dont want the chance of a bounty on your head you fight group to group or levels within a range of your level.
I hope and cant wait to see bounty's.
It seems that my understanding initially was flawed in thinking that the counter-bounty hunters, or bandits, would need to be in equal balance to the bounty hunter population in order to keep the bounty hunters busy.
Now I understand the bounty hunter role as more of a policing exercise that Intrepid has used in a way to almost replace a set of coded rules that say "don't camp defenseless people."
I love how they continue that theme of weighted decision making. I'm so excited.