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Is mob lvl a good thing for ashe ?

<em>Firstly, I want to apologize for my horrible english, wich is not my native langage. I hope your eyes won't bleed a lot while reading those lines. </em>

I have seen the last Q/A video from the dev team, when they explain that there is level both for players and mobs, like a lot of RPG. It's a very traditional thing. But Ashe is not a traditional themepark MMO, so I wonder if mob level is a good mechanism. My main concern is the node system, because the world will react if the node grows. If each node have is own range of levels (for example : 20-35, or 45-55), the "HL" nodes will be much more attractive than the others. This is not a good thing for trade. It's not a good thing for war nodes (players will protect the HL node, not the others). And all servers will probably chose the sames nodes to create metropolis.

So what if the node as differents kind of lvl ? HL players that live in this node will be too powerfull if a low level event is triggered. For example a low lvl zombies invasion on the node, there will not be any challenge because HL players need to defend their home. And low players will feel useless if an HL event is triggered.

Another possibility is mob's levels grows when the node is improved. I think this is the more elegant solution, but the main problem is that cities will be very attractives for HL players and much less for lowers ones. To avoid problems with trade, it will require crafts use low tiers ressources for high tiers crafts. And it will be difficult for low rank node to siege a bigger one, because their own base players will be lower level, so world risk to be a little statics.

I understand that PC evolution is an important thing, your caracter need to learn new things and improve his skills. But i'm not sure that level is the best way to do that with the node system...

So... What do you think ?


  • <blockquote>Another possibility is mob’s levels grows when the node is improved.

    As far as I know this is exactly what the developers have in mind. There will not be regions designed for specific level-ranges. Instead especially higher tier nodes will suply content to low-level-players as well as for high-level players. They kind of want the server to level up with its population.

    I think this was answered during one of the QnA Streams. I'll look for it later, can't do it right now.

    As for my opinion: The way the developers make it sound, sounds perfect!
  • It was answered here :

    That's why I have opened this thread. I think it s a mix between 2 and 3. Perhaps i didn't understand it well, however (again, english is not my native langage... I may misunderstood).

    But those 2 methods have some weaknesses. If cities make mobs grows in level, it mean that those cities will attract more HL players. So it will be difficult for smallers towns to siege thoses cities with low level players...
  • There is the summary of that QnA - Question 18

    Not the one I meant, though it does answer the question.

    15/05 QnA Question 19

    <blockquote>How will the world map be structured in relation to level progression?
    What’s been done in the past is world map works in a circular fashion towards a center, we’re working away from that.
    There are difficulties in all types of regions, and monsters are tied to the progression levels of the node as well.
    The monsters will advance with the stage
    It will expand as the node progresses.
    High level nodes such as with a metropolis will include both lower scale and highest scale monsters and events
    Goal is to have the server level up with the population, not have there be specific places for lvl 10, lvl 20 and so on.
    Backbone of the system is introduced as the node progresses and is diverse across nodes</blockquote>

    As for your weakness: It should not be possible for a low level node or group of players to siege and successfully win against a high-level node. Low-Level players may play and level up in that node (as seen above), but you can see a HighLevel Node as an enemy equal to monsters that are above your level. Engaging is usually a bad idea.

    Level up on your on, besiege nodes that are your level and when ready, besiege the metropolis. That's quite the normal kind of progression and since only 5 metropolis-state-nodes may exist at the same time it should work pretty well.
  • People in smaller towns will want to form alliances with enough other people to have sufficient numbers to win the siege.
    But, the only people not allowed to participate in the siege are the citizens of the city being sieged.
    The size of the town declaring the siege doesn't really matter.

    Also, even a small town could be filled with max level adventurers.

    Attracting more HL characters means the town can grow more quickly - that's a good thing.
    More for the lowbies to do. Helps the lowbies level faster.
  • I've been having some technical difficulties with the forum, so I hope this gets through.

    I feel that the developers have considered this well, and what is left to hash out about the system will get done through the Alpha and Beta testing.
  • @Dygz Everything you say is true, and that is good. Although I guess even if loooots of lowbies would rally they would not have a chance against.. well.. probably still quite many high level chars defending a metropolis or castle, especially as usually the defending party does have home-bonus.
    But in no way it's only metropolis vs metropolis
  • But when a node grows, it prevent the others to gain XP in it's area. So why max lvl player will go to a node that cannot grow anymore ? It's not attractive for them. Cities and metropolis have a radius where they stole XP from the others nodes, in order to create rivalries. I'm not sure that level system is really effective with this objective in long term, when cities will be established, it will be difficult to contest, I think...

    If a high node have both low and high quests and mob, HL player will defeat ennemies easily in order to defend their cities, and low players will feel useless when an high level event is triggered. And only high lvl will have significant impact on thoses cities... It doesn't sound perfect, to me. I've not the perfect answer, but I think there's something wrong, with that.
  • <blockquote>But when a node grows, it prevent the others to gain XP in it’s area.</blockquote>

    I don't think this is necessarily true. They even talked about neighboring nodes competing for metropolis-state, so that would mean until the highest level a neighbor can grow and probably is only limit by the servers max metro count.

    I guess the nodes will just be far enough from each other, that they may still have some influence over each other.. well, or the bigger over the smaller.. but the smaller will still be able to generate its own content that can be played and leveled.

    If you are nearer the smaller node, even if it might be in the reach of influence of the bigger node, all progress will probably go to the smaller node.

    Just speculating here though.
  • You are thinking that anyone who doesnt join the all powerful node will be wiped from the map ?
    That new nodes will be filled with low level players and therefore easy victims ?

    Initially I was thinking you could ally with the PvE attacks to take down such a powerful siege.
    But we were told monster attacks will not synchronise with a siege.

    So I dont know.
    They have said siege requires different mechanics for different size groups.
    So that could take number differences out of the equation to some degree.
    But then the large node could legitimately ask, why has my power been nullified ?
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    These are the limitations for neighbors pic A town is level 4 pic2 So ive been wrong. You can progress the nodes to a certain point and then the bigger node will halt all progress.
  • Yep, this is intended to create player's rivalries. That's why I wonder if level system is really a good thing with this aspect of nodes in long term.

    A possible solution tu use lvl is to make solution 3 and add a sidekick system to bring the players at a "virtual level" coherent with the node (A little like GW2 dynamics event that down the players stats and level). And obviously ensure that low level node have some points of interests or exclusives ressources that are used by high level players.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    As far as I understand it (can't/won't find sources right now), they wanna go for as you mention a bit of everything in every node. 
    Around a large city there might not be any strong monsters cause the city guard cleared them out, but there might be critters or neutral creatures like in the recent gameplay vid (lowlevel creatures).
    Further out where the cities power isn't as strong it there might be higher level mobs, and if you walk to the outerbounds in the woods there might be so many or so strong monsters that you can't pass through.

    To me it makes a lot of sense :smile:

    EDIT: Having a "sidekick" system is IMO really annoying, don't get me wrong its nice to go everywhere all the time. But it also takes away alot of the sense of progression and it seems it gets way harder to balance certain things. Having "dynamic" areas of level would make more sense (IMO).
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    IMHO the best way to tackle this is have new players almost on par with higher players relatively quicker..power wise.
    Then its not so much player power that is the problem but the number of players.
    Boss difficulty should be group size specific rather than player level specific.

    Easy areas are 1 man jobs.....the further in the sticks you go, the more allies you will need.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    That defeats the whole point of leveling up...  And is why there is a starter zone in the first place.  You need a way to teach players how to play the game before you just set them against people who are already high level.  They'd just get wrecked over and over.

    The Devs have already confirmed that there are "levels" of mobs that scale as you venture farther out into the world.  As well as there being dungeons and raids throughout your leveling experience.
  • They do not have traditional zone progression in the first place, this applies to mobs as well as ressources and whatnot.
    So just theoreticlly, you could find a superrare highclass ressource bulk in what you call a "lowlevelzone".
    This is not a prefixed game where you wander through one zone ever 5 levels to the next until you are in one of the 5 endzone of the game where you farm all day long.
    Everything can be the temporary "endzone" for any number of reasons, some great ressources, some great dungeon, continued storyprogression, spawning that worldboss a different server had here, opening up a traderoute because it's just perfectly in between several nodes around.
    Examples where given but I will add another short and clear one.
    You might find a lowby area of level 20 right next to a level 50 ruin.

    So yes, leveling is a perfectly good fit.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Pkfyre said:
    That defeats the whole point of leveling up...  And is why there is a starter zone in the first place.  You need a way to teach players how to play the game before you just set them against people who are already high level.  They'd just get wrecked over and over.

    The Devs have already confirmed that there are "levels" of mobs that scale as you venture farther out into the world.  As well as there being dungeons and raids throughout your leveling experience.

    What difference does it make if you get hammered though inexperience or hammered through stats inferiority ?

    The only reason I see for levelling to exist is to enable specialisation into a preferred build style.
    That progression does not have to add power. So there is no need for new players to be hammered.
    Its just an excuse for veteran players to use as a comfort blanket.
    To keep new or lower level players firmly under foot.
  • Appreciating that the devs likely already have a lot of planning in place for this issue which has been touched on in previous streams, a good solution to this might be a system similar to a recent MMO expansion (which will remain unnamed) where mob level scales with player level, and thereby continues to keep every zone relevant and also avoiding the need for a linear progression path in terms of moving from zone to zone. It might be that scaling would only occur for relevant enemies to avoid a situation where level 50 bunnies would exist (for example)...
    Referring back to the other MMO in which this was recently trialled, it did turn out to be quite a successful system in which players of different levels were still able to group together and each earn rewards/xp relevant to their respective level.
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