Monster Coins: Emersion breaking?

ArchivedUser

In many ways, I've been pleased to hear in the Q&A's, that AoC will be trying to avoid very "gamey" mechanics that break immersion from the game (no log in rewards, no P2W cash shop, limited/no fast travel, etc.). I'm concerned about Monster Coins. While cool in theory, is there any lore that backs up the use of these items? Are they transmutation coins that are suppose to change the form of the individual for a strategic purpose enabled by powerful magics or is it more gimmicky than that?

ArchivedUser

Some things are just awesome.

ArchivedUser

I imagine this is just one of those things where some one went: "Oh we can do this with UE4, and quite easily? Then let's do it", it might be gamebreaking/emmersion breaking. But on the other hand you could easily make it be part of the lore:

"Log 3, day 324 of the Imperial calender:
As more and more of our men go missing, one can only wonder should we really have taken that treasure of mysterial golden coins?

Anyhow its far too late now as the men disappear, savage and seemingly intelligent monsters appear. I fear we are not long for this world..."

(please excuse my horrible lore skills )
Hopefully there will be some small lore, and honestly it easy since its a completely unknown world, and we more or less shape the lore as we please. They could literally set it in the real world and just go "oh yeah in the year 2100 we invent spacegates and magic, ohh and we wipe out the world so we have to leave". Then we return to a heavily radiated world finally in balance and no theres strange creatures everywhere

ArchivedUser

I imagine this is one of those things where some dev went: "Oh we can do this easily with UE4? That seems cool lets do it". Sure it might be emmersion breaking, and for some people that really matters. But you could also easily make it a part of the lore:

"Day 232 of the Imperial Calender,
I fear we are not long for this world... It is the fifth day we have been pestered with horrible monsters, each one seeming more intelligent than the other. One can only wonder if somehow we have been hit by the curse of the golden coins, we raided from the tombs last week.
The soldiers are losing their nerve, and as more and more brothers disappear, it becomes increasingly difficult to keep them in line. It is only with the promise of the gold that I seem to keep them together..."

Please excuse my lore skills, some one better could probably make something that makes more sense . The lore should be easy though, as it is a blank canvas. The players arrive in an unknown world, where anything is possible lore wise. It is also filled with ancient constructs of unknown powers.

ArchivedUser

The lore is that they're part of a world event. Players can take the role of a monster during this event. If no player uses their monster coin then the monster is a npc. Apart from that i'm not sure lore-wise how they fit in just yet.

ArchivedUser

Corruption is the keyword for me. Maybe the coins as an item appear immersionbreaking, but the concept of a sudden burst of corruption enabling you for a limited time to take over/summon/controll the body of a powerful monster is not something I feel as if it is just pulled from thin air. I can see a number of more reasons, but this alone should cover everything already.

ArchivedUser

Mr.C said:

The lore is that they're part of a world event. Players can take the role of a monster during this event. If no player uses their monster coin then the monster is a npc. Apart from that i'm not sure lore-wise how they fit in just yet.

I don't think I would call "part of a world event" lore, thats more of the underlying mechanics. 

@Grisu
Corruption, curse or whatever you wanna call it, seems like a perfect lore setup. We/you/I/They don't understand the world yet, so there might be unknown factors. Imagine not being able to see the item text (as you character wouldnt), but something compels you to rub that shiny shiny gold, once that happens you get cursed and you become a monster. Once a monster you won't "think" like you character, cause well you're a monster, so you do monster stuff

ArchivedUser

You ever feel the pull of the void when looking at a pile of coins? You ever feel like gouging out your neighbors eyes just so that they can't have any of what is rightfully yours?
No? Well then you must be a saint, and deserve the Angel skin.
But if you're human, then you know what I'm talking about, and you know exactly how far greed and jealousy can drive a man. Give someone a special object that they know naught about, even make it look shiny and valuable, then they will go to great lengths to keep that object in their possession and away from the rest of the world.

Now, curse that object, and you got the greatest weapon to bring out the true manifestation of evil/corruption within all of our hearts, to the real physical world. Imagine the damage and chaos that one can cause when all of their deep hidden needs are brought to the light of the world.

That is what these coins do, and how it can still fit and not be immersion breaking :P

ArchivedUser

I can imagine the roleplayers really enjoying this mechanic. RPers have used transformations in WoW and GW2.
The coins will just add something to do and benefits mostly everyone.

ArchivedUser

kylesuss said:

In many ways, I've been pleased to hear in the Q&A's, that AoC will be trying to avoid very "gamey" mechanics that break immersion from the game (no log in rewards, no P2W cash shop, limited/no fast travel, etc.). I'm concerned about Monster Coins. While cool in theory, is there any lore that backs up the use of these items? Are they transmutation coins that are suppose to change the form of the individual for a strategic purpose enabled by powerful magics or is it more gimmicky than that?

Monster coins will be tokens you can use to take the place of a large monster which is attacking a node as part of a special event. It won't let you do anything which could unbalance the game and you cant do it against a node where you are a citizen.

ArchivedUser

I think individuals can use whatever lore they want.

Most likely, it will generally be the player making the transformation - not the player character...
Meaning, the player will not be roleplaying that the character loves to transform into monsters. We won't be trying to retaliate against the player characters or the city that those player characters are from.

Generally it will be a player decision, rather than the character's decision.

ArchivedUser

I disagree, I don't think it's immersion breaking now that I've seen today's stream!

In the stream Steven explains that the world has Corruption, which is always trying to seduce the people of the world to "succumb to the dark side" so to speak, and monster coins artifacts that, lore-wise, have this effect on characters (im assuming it's kinda like Slytherin's Locket in Harry Potter, maybe?). If you choose to use the monster coin, it's basically your character temporarily succumbing to that corruption for a little while.
 
Unless of course I'm understanding incorrectly and this isn't what he meant :P

ArchivedUser

I'd always figured that the Monster Coin: Legion was supposed to be a PvP Tactic - you could essentially trick a player into attacking you if you use a Monster Coin and join the a Mob full of the same Creatures you turned into. 

ArchivedUser

@Julemanden The world events will be a massive part of the lore - not just an underlying mechanic.

ArchivedUser

There is enough info for me to believe this is a good addition rather than an unsightly one. Will be keeping a close eye on the development of this and watching how it progresses to ensure it remains so.

ArchivedUser

Yeah, fortunately Deathsproxy asked the same question in the last stream. I do feel a bit better about it now. You can see the answer here: "Ashes of Creation Final Kickstarter Livestream June 1, 2017 Featuring Death's Proxy" http://www.twitch.tv/ashesofcreation/v/148801919?sr=a&t=2431s

ArchivedUser

I too think this will be a good or positive addition to the game. I see it as session play in a PvP area like you had in LOTRO. Sure it could be abused and potentially downright annoying but I truly think it will be a facet of the game which players like and will undoubtedly keep things interesting and unpredictable if implemented correctly.   

ArchivedUser

I'm thinking this could be a viable and fun diversion from every day questing and chores.  The devs explained it nicely in the live stream and I don't see it taking away from the game and making it meaningless to the events and immersion in the game.   It  gives the players another option for enjoyment, and even role playing.   

Have faith.


CylverRayne
(SilverRain)

ArchivedUser

Mr.C said:

@Julemanden The world events will be a massive part of the lore - not just an underlying mechanic.

Yeah it is, but you cant say "The lore is that they're part of a world event" cause thats not lore on the coins, that like the underlying mechanic as to why it happens. It is true the world is shaped by events of different magnitude.
But we are talking specific lore, like "the magician cursed the coins" or "gold is corrupted". (at least that was what I was talking about).

ArchivedUser

 It's possibly part of the inner workings of developing a node, is that you may awaken certain 'monsters' disturbed by the sudden appearance of returning races to the world.  Said monsters come out of their long slumber? Taking time out from murdering bunnies? To come and see what the fuss is all about which creates a world event or node event in which you will have the option to take over the monster to be that evil person you have always wanted to be? Therefore triggering all local players into defending their home, or suffer consequences such as npc quest givers, merchants etc dying and unable to provide you with things you may need.
 The coins themselves may be ancient artifacts, In the live stream video where they enter the dungeon, at the end they pick the coin off a skeleton in what looks like a ritual room?

ArchivedUser

Depends really.

Do you accept you can be ripped from your body and placed in another via a 3rd party agency ?

Part of me feels these are supposed to be fun events to give you a break from the game and let your hair down. So whether they are immersion breaking or not is a bit of a strawman from that point of view.

What the devs are doing is essentially letting you replace the AI for a PvE boss in a PvE event. A PvE boss that you would 'never' otherwise have access to. It gives you a fun thing to do. It helps the players out with the not so intelligent PvE AI issue. Its a mutually beneficial arrangement to me.

Plus the devs can take over the bosses too and we can kick their arses

...or at least try. lol. Alas the Devs cant be everywhere all the time, so have players in their stead is good IMHO.