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Options
Events, Corruption, Gods and Dynamics.
A few thoughts after stream
Events.
Week long invasions / events. So for events, do you think they will be smaller scale 'Rawr, the dragon attacks!' ... For one hour. Event over. Or will it be like the older events of Warcraft in which you had week or sometimes month long sieges such as the floating Naxxramas releasing skeletons every hour to attack the town. I'd love to see sieges based on events occur over long spans. Perhaps you have to defeat the Dragon, but you can only actually weaken it after smaller events which take days of prep occur - All other fights only hold it off.
Multiple solutions to an event, or story paths winthin it. In the idea of meaningful conflict and dynamic events - @DeathsProxy brought up an excellent concept : Multiple options of resolving an event. They described this system would be to complex...
Perhaps a simplified version. Event A triggers. Event option X and Y pop up and the players can choose which side they support. If Events are more long spread like the above...
Say the Dragon awakens, One option could be restoring or gathering something which would appease the dragon - Or restore it to it's natural home. Maybe correct the wrong sort of way. These players may get a more political or religious reward. Option two could be reap the rewards of the situation - Prepare to kill it so it does not rise again. The rewards would be more towards crafters for rare items, materials or bartering options... Or PvPers, killing it spreads corruption in a town similar to the Forest Spirits in Princess Mononoke.
Though the dragon could be inherently corrupted and the only way is to put it down... Perhaps what is done with the remains is a major event in and of itself along those same lines.
Monster coin events. Why not corruption coins? I still get this very ... Out of place feeling from the coins. Sure this is a game, but one that seems to pride itself on immersion. Or at least that's the hope I had. These monster coins just being artifacts... Hopefully they'll get more lore. As it stands right now, even being tied into a major event - Sure it's a cool game mechanic... But why would any character choose to be corrupted in such a way. Sure it's a player decision, but that breaks immersion of a roleplaying game. I dunno, rubs me wrong so far.
On the same topic of Monster coins, I yet again agree - Where is the meaningful conflict? Sure it's conflict, sure it's rewarding, ... But meaningful? How? How does this change a player or characters lives beyond sweet loot? If you're going to dump a feature like this in at least make it flow with the concept of the world. Give it that these cursed coins play into the darker desires as they described of corruption. Allow them to control the corruption, if only briefly. Let it be something that players can react in an immersive way... Another person was taken hold by the corruption and rose up to be a driving force for it? Monster tokens should be able to have a strategic use to give them value, beyond simple cosmetics - Though I'm expecting them to be a readily available cash shop item as to why this feature won't work in this method. I expect it to be very.. Meta, item. Which is sad.
Also ...Do you think monster coins will be tradable? I personally don't like the concept, but wouldn't hate the idea of dungeon delving for one and selling / trading it to someone who does.
Corruption
Rewards for Corruption. That brings me to Corruption. Sure, you get a small amount of resources from PKing. Assuming you can carry the amount decently it's a way to give you the option of a minor reward while not fully incentivising it.
Why not? I mean, sure I get why not for PKing. Perhaps gain corruption in other ways. Maybe there are corruption based events you can take part in to sabotage a Node. I find this aspect very cool. This would make it so the player isn't in a Good/Evil rather a Beneficial/Malicious playstyle. Perhaps there are rare event spawns that are usually snuffed out - However if a handful of players works on the opposite side of the event, they can push the negative effects forward.
Sure, this might be able to be broken and abused. There would need to be limiting factors to the corruption design, but I feel it's a concept that should be at least explored since it's such an integral part of the world.
I really want to see the game have the ability to harness corruption... Even if it's in the style of the Warlock who harnesses it for his own needs, and not exactly for evil. Perhaps a Tank/Rogue will be able to be that 2H corruption death knight style who augments himself with the vile corruption to fight it. I love this concept of infecting yourself for gains in a risk-reward playstyle.
Dynamics
Story driven, or non-linear dungeons? Another thing not really answered even though asked. I love the idea of delving to a dungeon without seeing the same scripted scene everytime. Going back to that dungeon should feel different. Sure maybe a mini cinematic death scene is fine, but not one player specific. Not your hero reaching out every time to save some random person from falling.
I actually really like the thought of Non-linear dungeons, once you have to stumble through, find the right path. Dungeon crawler style without some NPC holding your hand. I'd like to see this be true for all levels of dungeons. If a world first raid of this content guessed the wrong wing to fight based on there not being anyone to explore beforehand... They should have that struggle of being pushed back and forced to retreat. This type of game should have the story focus on the world, not the individual. You're not a special snowflake here. You're a humanoid returning and rebuilding your world, just like everyone else.
Gods
Oh man. This one rubbed me raw for sure. Firstly from a standpoint of Gods probably going to end up being a 'Meta' requirement, to removing player agency of choice.
Sure, you can choose a god. I guess. Why give me the option to choose a god but not Technology, Science, or even Corruption to pay homage to? Let me be a scholar or researcher of the world. Let me be a villain and draw in corruption for an old god style being.
Look - I don't hate the idea of gods. What I don't like is there not being a contrasting option to be able to take other than gods to gain these specific type augments. Maybe I'm a animistic shaman who revere's the lifestream and things the gods are actually harmful to the world? I'm sure there will be nature god... But what if I'm an orc, and that god is decidedly favoring elves? ... While I like the system, I don't like the concept.
My secondary point to it is... Why do I get this vibe... This always looming no-lifer style vibe of meta. I sort of forsee, from the descriptions we've gotten so far, gods being a generic 'Gain some favor!' repeatable daily. Whelp, gotta go bring the god lunch today so I don't lose my augment. Or, 'You can't join our raid as a healer without worshiping [God of Healing] for the [Meta Healing] augment.
They've said they don't want to limit player choice. But they've also said they will have options which will clearly be sub-optimal choices. From the sounds of it, for example, Shield tank VS other tanks. If classes don't get weapon specific skill sets like Guild Wars 2, and Tank ends up being 60% Shield based skills... How is that giving me options? Giving me garbage options VS optimal ones... Isn't really fair to call choice.
Anyway, What are your thoughts?
Events.
Week long invasions / events. So for events, do you think they will be smaller scale 'Rawr, the dragon attacks!' ... For one hour. Event over. Or will it be like the older events of Warcraft in which you had week or sometimes month long sieges such as the floating Naxxramas releasing skeletons every hour to attack the town. I'd love to see sieges based on events occur over long spans. Perhaps you have to defeat the Dragon, but you can only actually weaken it after smaller events which take days of prep occur - All other fights only hold it off.
Multiple solutions to an event, or story paths winthin it. In the idea of meaningful conflict and dynamic events - @DeathsProxy brought up an excellent concept : Multiple options of resolving an event. They described this system would be to complex...
Perhaps a simplified version. Event A triggers. Event option X and Y pop up and the players can choose which side they support. If Events are more long spread like the above...
Say the Dragon awakens, One option could be restoring or gathering something which would appease the dragon - Or restore it to it's natural home. Maybe correct the wrong sort of way. These players may get a more political or religious reward. Option two could be reap the rewards of the situation - Prepare to kill it so it does not rise again. The rewards would be more towards crafters for rare items, materials or bartering options... Or PvPers, killing it spreads corruption in a town similar to the Forest Spirits in Princess Mononoke.
Though the dragon could be inherently corrupted and the only way is to put it down... Perhaps what is done with the remains is a major event in and of itself along those same lines.
Monster coin events. Why not corruption coins? I still get this very ... Out of place feeling from the coins. Sure this is a game, but one that seems to pride itself on immersion. Or at least that's the hope I had. These monster coins just being artifacts... Hopefully they'll get more lore. As it stands right now, even being tied into a major event - Sure it's a cool game mechanic... But why would any character choose to be corrupted in such a way. Sure it's a player decision, but that breaks immersion of a roleplaying game. I dunno, rubs me wrong so far.
On the same topic of Monster coins, I yet again agree - Where is the meaningful conflict? Sure it's conflict, sure it's rewarding, ... But meaningful? How? How does this change a player or characters lives beyond sweet loot? If you're going to dump a feature like this in at least make it flow with the concept of the world. Give it that these cursed coins play into the darker desires as they described of corruption. Allow them to control the corruption, if only briefly. Let it be something that players can react in an immersive way... Another person was taken hold by the corruption and rose up to be a driving force for it? Monster tokens should be able to have a strategic use to give them value, beyond simple cosmetics - Though I'm expecting them to be a readily available cash shop item as to why this feature won't work in this method. I expect it to be very.. Meta, item. Which is sad.
Also ...Do you think monster coins will be tradable? I personally don't like the concept, but wouldn't hate the idea of dungeon delving for one and selling / trading it to someone who does.
Corruption
Rewards for Corruption. That brings me to Corruption. Sure, you get a small amount of resources from PKing. Assuming you can carry the amount decently it's a way to give you the option of a minor reward while not fully incentivising it.
Why not? I mean, sure I get why not for PKing. Perhaps gain corruption in other ways. Maybe there are corruption based events you can take part in to sabotage a Node. I find this aspect very cool. This would make it so the player isn't in a Good/Evil rather a Beneficial/Malicious playstyle. Perhaps there are rare event spawns that are usually snuffed out - However if a handful of players works on the opposite side of the event, they can push the negative effects forward.
Sure, this might be able to be broken and abused. There would need to be limiting factors to the corruption design, but I feel it's a concept that should be at least explored since it's such an integral part of the world.
I really want to see the game have the ability to harness corruption... Even if it's in the style of the Warlock who harnesses it for his own needs, and not exactly for evil. Perhaps a Tank/Rogue will be able to be that 2H corruption death knight style who augments himself with the vile corruption to fight it. I love this concept of infecting yourself for gains in a risk-reward playstyle.
Dynamics
Story driven, or non-linear dungeons? Another thing not really answered even though asked. I love the idea of delving to a dungeon without seeing the same scripted scene everytime. Going back to that dungeon should feel different. Sure maybe a mini cinematic death scene is fine, but not one player specific. Not your hero reaching out every time to save some random person from falling.
I actually really like the thought of Non-linear dungeons, once you have to stumble through, find the right path. Dungeon crawler style without some NPC holding your hand. I'd like to see this be true for all levels of dungeons. If a world first raid of this content guessed the wrong wing to fight based on there not being anyone to explore beforehand... They should have that struggle of being pushed back and forced to retreat. This type of game should have the story focus on the world, not the individual. You're not a special snowflake here. You're a humanoid returning and rebuilding your world, just like everyone else.
Gods
Oh man. This one rubbed me raw for sure. Firstly from a standpoint of Gods probably going to end up being a 'Meta' requirement, to removing player agency of choice.
Sure, you can choose a god. I guess. Why give me the option to choose a god but not Technology, Science, or even Corruption to pay homage to? Let me be a scholar or researcher of the world. Let me be a villain and draw in corruption for an old god style being.
Look - I don't hate the idea of gods. What I don't like is there not being a contrasting option to be able to take other than gods to gain these specific type augments. Maybe I'm a animistic shaman who revere's the lifestream and things the gods are actually harmful to the world? I'm sure there will be nature god... But what if I'm an orc, and that god is decidedly favoring elves? ... While I like the system, I don't like the concept.
My secondary point to it is... Why do I get this vibe... This always looming no-lifer style vibe of meta. I sort of forsee, from the descriptions we've gotten so far, gods being a generic 'Gain some favor!' repeatable daily. Whelp, gotta go bring the god lunch today so I don't lose my augment. Or, 'You can't join our raid as a healer without worshiping [God of Healing] for the [Meta Healing] augment.
They've said they don't want to limit player choice. But they've also said they will have options which will clearly be sub-optimal choices. From the sounds of it, for example, Shield tank VS other tanks. If classes don't get weapon specific skill sets like Guild Wars 2, and Tank ends up being 60% Shield based skills... How is that giving me options? Giving me garbage options VS optimal ones... Isn't really fair to call choice.
Anyway, What are your thoughts?
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