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Some real questions ?

Hi,

Im an oldschool MMORPG player who surrendered and stopped to play any kind of game called "MMORPG" 3 years ago... cause obviously this kind wasn't existing anymore, it was only themepark, and some lowcost sandbox.
The truth is both are label that reduce the whole game experience, because a real MMORPG got some "themepark", some "sandbox" but most of all everything else !

Im the lead of a gaming community and before pledging, i have some very specifics questions for the AoC team and the fans...
Since every MMORPG i tried after Lineage II(2005-2008) where huge disappointement (TERA, Archeage, Black Desert)

1-The game will have instanced content ?
(for me any instance or channel is a NO pledge, those "feature" destroy the point of any open world and his persistant meaning, and we all know in the end it will only atract selfish & solo players who seek for instanced PvE dungeon)

2-There will be different server style ?
(different server style is a NO pledge, if a MMORPG can run only by his PvE or his PvP, it mean those feature are not actualy designed from the begining to be part of the game core !)
 
3-The game will be open PvP ? any safe zone ?
(required Lv cap, big friendly zone, PvP/PvE stuff, everything that reduce the player free will is for me a NO pledge point, of course some area should be "safe" or concidered has no hostility, like capital and big towns when it comes to trading)

4-The PvP/Pk system & rules will be close to Lineage II ?(by far the best one for me)
(Jailed PK, labor PK are not fun. Player Killing(no consensual PvP) must be something risky but not punished by some "freezing" feature... Lineage II in his begining handled PKing perfectling, with full loot upon death and the need for the PK to repay for his sins outdoor ! The hunter being hunted circle, this is FUN, this dangerous, and this is unforgiving for griefer.

5-The game will have any global auction house ?
(It's a NO pledge, this "handy" feature just kill every trading/commerce aspect and the whole point of PvP for ressources(to craft etc)... It's also bring market exploit and goldselling issues)

6-The game will focus on teamplay content ?
(MMORPG is about community, if you can soloplay with more efficiency people will exploit it and don't bother team up. SOLOPLAY can be a possibility, but it must NOT be the usual path !
Soloplay must be harder and less rewarding than people who are working together. This is the root of MMORPG that has been forgotten since a decade.)

I think those are my main concerns about MMORPG.
If AoC answer to them my guild and i, will gladly pledge for it.









 

Comments

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    Hello, and welcome! I'll attempt to answer what I can, as best I can. I can tell you that there will be people who have better/more info than I do, so I'm sure they'll chime in.

    1. Yes, there will be instanced combat in the form of dungeons and raids. Other than that, no, it's all open world, and the combat and conditions change. There are many videos out there that have a great deal of info, but basically, you will have an environment where you go through a "year" (seasonally) in a month. One week Spring, one Summer, one Autumn, one Winter. With the change of these seasons, the offerings of what happens in that area changes. Further, the Node system so far indicates that Node establishment and their growth also impacts the game. All of this is OW.
    2. All servers will be based on the same ruleset
    3. The game will be OWPvP, with harsh penalties for PK. In essence the flagging system has three states; combatant, non-combatant, and bounty. If a combatant engages a non-combatant (nc from here forward), the nc has the option to fight back (thus flagging as combatant) or to refuse to. There will be an XP deficit applied to the nc for not fighting back upon death, but a harsher penalty, including a stat reduction to the initiator of the fight. I believe that that person will also then be flagged as a bounty, show up as red spots on the map and be open to being hunted by other players.
    4. Never played Lineage before, so no idea how to answer to that
    5. The economic environment will be specific to each zone, there will not be any global economy. Some places will be better known for product A, some for Product B, and so on. This encourages the usage of Caravans, which will transport goods from Point A to Point B and be a source of potential PvP combat. Players can choose to guard or attack the caravans.
    6. I believe that the game will cater as much as possible to all gameplay styles. There will be team-based content, but there will be options for those players who wish to explore and engage with the world on their own.
    Hope this helps. Again, I absolutely strongly recommend you go through the streams that've been done, as there's a wealth of information in them.
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    Basicly what Isende said, point 4 is point 3 really in this case and the only thing I will expand on. It has a karmaish approch yes.
    When you die in pvp you drop a portion of whatever gatherable ressources you are carring around, no matter what state you have. That's the reward
    If you do initiate on a non combatant you will gather corruption that will trigger you into, what Isende called, a bounty state. That's the risk
    If it didn't change since I lost touch a bit, that means the higher your corruption goes the weaker you will get through combat-penalities, and at a certain point it will be possible that you drop your gear on death.

    Well I'll expand on 6 too a bit.
    If you bother to look around a bit you will see that there is a lot of interconnection and specialization in this game. I'll take crafting as an example, you can specialize in gathering, processing or crafting. You can mix and match but they are very clear about it that you will have to dedicate a lot of time into one part (crafting splits up into different things too) to become a true mastercrafter/processor/gatherer and get whatever benefits that brings with it. It's just hints really, but the game is built with a lot of interconnections in mind and while they do want everyone to enjoy their own group playstyle, they are clear about it that grouping up is the way to achieve stuff in the game.
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    I'm not in the mood to play with this forum, it ate my post again, so very short summary to expand on point 3 aka. 4
    It has a karmaish approach, you die in pvp, you lose ressources you carry around. You PK people you gather corruption and possibly drop loot at some point while getting combat penalties.

    6. You need to take a look at all the info given out, there is an insane amount of interconnection a single person can not achieve alone. If you really want to play this game you will have to work with lot's of different people from different categories. (Can't be a mastercrafter and a mastergatherer and a masterprocessor to reap all 3 benefits)
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    Oh yeah and not gona edit now, ISende basicly covered everything else well.
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Pretty much what @Isende, and @Grisu, said.

    The only thing I would add some possible clarification on is the "open world" issue.

    If I'm not mistaken, "normal" dungeons are also open world, along with most everything else.  The only thing I'm not sure of are raid dungeons, and whether they're "open" or "instanced".

    Steven said he wanted to make the world as open as possible, with little to no instancing, or invisible walls.

    Also, regarding PvP penalties, there will be xp "debt", as opposed to a "deficit".  There is no threat of de-leveling, from multiple deaths.  Though, you will have to work off the "xp debt" you accrued, before any xp is applied to your character, normally.
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    First thanks all for your answers.

    1-Please you must clarify thing about instanced stuff, battleground, instanced dungeon/raid, or arena PvP(beside tournament PvP) are a totaly NO NO.
    My guild and i will not play a game if some players can grind/hide/farm/gather ressources in an alternate world for their conveniance.

    2-This is a very good thing

    3 & 4-PvP with flaging system seem's very similar to oldschool MMO and so Lineage II, another good point.
    Still need to know if there is any "noob protection" or safe zone in the game...
    Not that i like killing low/newbie players(its actualy the opposite), but i despite when the game reduce players free will with stupid feature, while protecting beginer should be the role of players(this only work with a good PvP/PK system thought)

    5-Black Desert promised(during Korean CBT) the same thing and roll back to a global AH for player conveniance again... I hope AoC will keep the economy as a game pillar.

    6-You guy's didn't convinced me this much on the last point... This is somehow related to the first question. Since instanced feature are mostly oriented for casual and solo players.
    Like i said Soloplaying is totaly fair to me and should be possible as long as it's not the usual path... the game must not bend to it, it's the player that have to bend, and adapt to the game and not the opposite. We saw this in every last MMORPG where dev throwed everything away to keep their whale playing.


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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Kreyd. said:
    First thanks all for your answers.

    1-Please you must clarify thing about instanced stuff, battleground, instanced dungeon/raid, or arena PvP(beside tournament PvP) are a totaly NO NO.
    My guild and i will not play a game if some players can grind/hide/farm/gather ressources in an alternate world for their conveniance.

    2-This is a very good thing

    3 & 4-PvP with flaging system seem's very similar to oldschool MMO and so Lineage II, another good point.
    Still need to know if there is any "noob protection" or safe zone in the game...
    Not that i like killing low/newbie players(its actualy the opposite), but i despite when the game reduce players free will with stupid feature, while protecting beginer should be the role of players(this only work with a good PvP/PK system thought)

    5-Black Desert promised(during Korean CBT) the same thing and roll back to a global AH for player conveniance again... I hope AoC will keep the economy as a game pillar.

    6-You guy's didn't convinced me this much on the last point... This is somehow related to the first question. Since instanced feature are mostly oriented for casual and solo players.
    Like i said Soloplaying is totaly fair to me and should be possible as long as it's not the usual path... the game must not bend to it, it's the player that have to bend, and adapt to the game and not the opposite. We saw this in every last MMORPG where dev throwed everything away to keep their whale playing.


    1 - We really can't clarify; what information is out there is all we've got to work with, and you must understand that this game is still, currently, pre-alpha

    3 - I believe they've spoken of sanctuary type locations, but someone else will be better able to answer that for you

    5 - When BDO was launched, we were told many things that the publishing company later changed their minds on. They've been wishy-washy with that game, using it as a cash-grab more than anything else. I don't get that sense from IS.

    6 - You speak of what the game must and must not do; IS does have very strong ideas and opinions on the game they are creating. I strongly, strongly urge you to go through the casts of the Twitch Streams they've done, as well as read up as much as you can. Relying on we, the interested community, to be able to satisfactorily answer all your questions is actually not a good idea. Why? Because different things are bringing us to the game for different reasons. The things that are important to me may be absolutely unimportant to you. In reviewing the streams and information which is out there, for yourself, you will be able to make the best determination, for yourself, as to whether the game as the developers are presenting it will closely match, or not, what you and your friends ... require.
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    The concern about "soloplay" is valid but I feel logging into a game that's a massive multiplayer game and expecting to be able to do anything you want alone is unreasonable. 

    Although a game should have options, I agree, it should not "bend" to anyone play style.
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    Karthos said:
    The concern about "soloplay" is valid but I feel logging into a game that's a massive multiplayer game and expecting to be able to do anything you want alone is unreasonable.
    I'd go as far as to say that this is where the latest MMOs have gone wrong. I can get from 0-max and not speak to a soul. There's nothing inherently wrong with that ofc but there needs to be a greater focus on interaction and cooperation, even to the degree where it's not possible to complete aspects of the game unless you do. This surely becomes even more evident through the node system inherent in Ashes.
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    I'd go even further to say that there is something inherently wrong with an MMO in which you go through the main story content without interacting with another player. I agree that this is the point at which MMOs do go wrong now these days and can honestly say that if not for the early group mandatory quest content in the first MMO I played were not there then I would never have stuck with the genre for so many years now. It would be great to see a story design in which there are 'group content road blocks' that need to be completed in order to continue to progress in my personal opinion. 

    To the OP I'm not sure why you're making it sound that we need to sell you on the game, but I would definitely reiterate that which @Isende has said an implore you to watch the twitch content and do a little digging around to see if you can find enough to satisfy you for now. As was mentioned already, you may not yet be able to find the detail that you are seeking as yet, this is because it is very early in development and has not yet been made available to the community.
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    Nothing can force people to directly interact with other players if they don't want to interact with other players.

    Killer/Achievers will only socialize with other players if they are forced to in order to kill or achieve. If they can get that done with socializing, they will solo. Or stay silent even when in a group.

    Socializers will interact and socialize with other players even when they don't group and even when they aren't working on killing or achieving hard-coded objectives.

    Ashes takes care of the group content roadblocks by making it necessary for us to build cities instead of starting with pre-existing cities. We can't build a city by ourselves.
    Same with defending the cities from attack.

    Also, having the cities level along with us and having the homes be open world rather than instanced means we will actually live in the cities amongst the other players who help build and defend it - rather than scattering to the four corners of the world once we complete all the newbie content.
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    I would argue that having some instanced dungeons and raids is a benefit more than a deficit.  Having a majority of it as open world is really cool, but some should definitely stay closed off from external influence.  If there are 10,000 players on a server and 1 out of 10 want to run through a specific dungeon for collectibles or gear or simply the story it contains...there's going to be 1,000 people gunning for that area at various times of the day.  There is so much competition for just experiencing that portion of the content that many will not be able to.

    Steven and Jeffrey said that most content will be open world, but some will indeed be instanced.  If they choose to instance something, it's probably because they foresee many people wanting to complete it and some people would be left out in the cold because of too many others after the same thing.

    Imagine walking into a dungeon with some heavy story elements.  You wade through 200 other people completing the same dungeon and make it to a "boss reveal" room, while someone is engaged mid-battle.  Boss dies, people collect loot and run away, boss resets, and you get the "Grand Entrance" cut scene, which is supposed to be surprising and super nifty but....you are unimpressed because the surprise is gone and there was no control you had over what was going on in the room when you walked in.  

    How about when facing a raid boss?  If the raid is instanced, you and your group have time to plan your attack and run a few trials on the best way to bring it down.  If it is not instanced, it becomes a zerg fest against the boss, with multiple groups just running in as quickly as possible to burn it down.  Where's the fun in that?

    How about when the Intrepid team said that there would be puzzles to solve and some things that require the team to work together with their unique class skills?  How fun would it be to walk into a non-instanced dungeon and just walk through the rotating door created by a constant flow of people?  Discovery factor, reduced to nothing.

    At least a handful of other reasons why some content really should be instanced, but you are entitled to your opinion that it should not be and I won't say that you are wrong for wanting it that way.  I just happen to like instanced content.  It's not for "hiding" so much as ensuring that each person has a valuable and engaging experience, without so many external influences.
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    Isende said:
    -snip-
    Thanks a lot for this I was able to pass this along to a friend of mine who was also interested in the game with some of the same questions!
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    Zelkova said:
    Isende said:
    -snip-
    Thanks a lot for this I was able to pass this along to a friend of mine who was also interested in the game with some of the same questions!
    Join the hype and get them to use your referral link :D
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    @kreyd. I played Lineage 2 for about 9 years, and Ashes is the only game since I quit that has truly said and done all the right things. The pvp & corruption system is basically the L2 system but upgraded. Castle sieges like Lineage 2. I could go on and on. Lineage 2 was the founder Stevens favorite mmo. The team has many players of L2 developing Ashes.

    I have chatted with a few members of the development team over the past few months, and I once told them that it feels like you guys are taking the best from Lineage 2 and a few other old school mmo's and sprinkling a bit of new-age flare and technology to make Ashes. The Intrepid Studio employee I was talking to at the time, agreed.

    Trust me when I say that if this is not the game that will fill the hole left in a L2 players heart nothing ever may. I have basically been following Ashes from day one. I trust this team immensely, they are transparent and a part of the community. It is truly unlike anything I have ever been a part of in the gaming world.
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    The EQNext team was transparent, too.
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Dygz said:
    The EQNext team was transparent, too.
    Was EQnext being ran by a millionaire mmo superfan that was making his dream mmo?
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