Changing your secondary class

ArchivedUser

Steven has confirmed that you'll be able to change your secondary class, so what's the best way to go about it? 

*Update*

Some particularly strong suggestions so far have involved a 2 tier system, which involves:

1) Doing a one-time quest to unlock the ability to use a particular secondary class

2) Being able to swap the unlocked secondary classes at a trainer. This could be combined with one of the other mechanisms such as cooldowns and/or fees. Or, it could just involve swapping with no penalty other than the fact that you have to level up each secondary to max level (if exp / skill points apply to Ashes' augment system).

I can't change the poll aside from making a new one, so please select the NPC Quest or Other if you're in favor of the 2 tier system but just specify in your post that you're voting for the 2 tier system and what mechanism you want to see it combined with.

E.g.

2 tier; cooldown 

2 tier; fees

2 tier; no penalty other than leveling 

Or, just elaborate whatever way you please in your own words.

I also think it'd be repetitive if you had to do the same quest every time you swapped!
Thanks for your contributions thus far

Notes
*fee means in-game currency such as gold, as otherwise it’d be p2w. 

ArchivedUser

this one might be happening as said in a Q and A 

ArchivedUser

i don't think a fee or a lockout are the way to go. i would do it in a two part way, first you have to do a quest per sub class and you can only swap between those which you finished that quest. 
then it depends if there is a progression system with your second class, levels/mastery or however it may be called, so, would you need to level up the second class after each swap? if so, this is payment enough in my opinion

ArchivedUser

OneWingedAngel said:

this one might be happening as said in a Q and A 

Aye, Steven mentioned it as one of the ideas with which they were toying, so I included it in the poll. I think I'm in favor of this idea but Enrif's two tier system is also intriguing.

ArchivedUser

Think I'd go with a mix of option 1 & 2. Quest NPC which gives a quest with a cooldown after completion.

ArchivedUser

Enrif said:

i don't think a fee or a lockout are the way to go. i would do it in a to part way, thirst you have to do a quest per sub class and you can only swap between those which you finished that quest. 
then it depends if there is a progression system with your second class, levels/mastery or however it may be called, so, would you need to level up the second class after each swap? if so, this is payment enough in my opinion

I like that idea. You would have to do a quest initially to unlock a given secondary class as an option, then you could combine that with another mechanism such as cooldown.

I'm sure they're still debating on whether or not to re-set your skill augments after each swap. I would argue against such as penalty though. If your character took the time to become a Fighter-Cleric (Paladin), it wouldn't make sense to lose all your knowledge of self-healing just because you tried Fighter-Rogue for a while.

ArchivedUser

If they do an npc quest things could get interesting as some nodes may not have the npc you are looking for but i think that would be part of the fun. "My apprentice you are not a capable mage go across the mountain and find the giant he will teach you the ways of a tank"

ArchivedUser

If you want to change your secondary  class that should be less dificult than changing your primary however you should still have to earn the changed skills not just switch willy nilly. 

ArchivedUser

I'd like to see a system similar to Final Fantasy. Meaning you can swap freely but you will need to level each class (primary-archtype + secondary-archtype = class) seperatly.

ArchivedUser

If the quest was dynamic and different to do each time, then I would agree. However if the same, it may become monotonous to repeat for each change.

The economy will need currency sinks, so agreed with paying.

ArchivedUser

I don't know if it's been talked about yet, but if there are skill ranks, it would be useful to have skill decay... so if you decide to change secondary classes, your effort to learn it would be reset to 0 if you were to go back to it in the future. There would be a slow decay timer in the background (i.e. not instant).

ArchivedUser

I voted for swap freely. i just want to switch on the fly. o look a world boss lets make a pure pew pew dps class. damm im getting ganked i better get some extra defence or self healing.

ArchivedUser

It would be fun to have a quest designed for the "cleansing" of a character's secondary class, allowing for the introduction of a more preferable choice.  The quest given will reflect the secondary class you wish to switch to.  

Of course, no action should be taken lightly.  The higher the character/class level, the more difficult the task set before you.  

Once completed, there's a CD for when you can perform such a ritual, again.  2-4 months, real time, perhaps?

ArchivedUser

I hope there is a quest. I always loved doing the class quests in Ragnarok Online. A quest can really help you feel like you are developing your character and provide an understanding of the class. I think after you've proved your worth, you should be able to switch between them freely. (or at least by visiting an NPC in a village node or higher.) Or perhaps save 2-3 favorite "builds" similar to Rift.

ArchivedUser

I would like to see a system similar to what WoW did with their requirement to pass the trials in Pandaria.

Step 1: Remove your secondary class.
Step 2: Pick a new secondary.
Step 3: Transported to an instanced arena where you try your new skills out on mobs.
Step 4: Confirm your changes and you're good to go.

ArchivedUser

Personally a fan of being able to adapt to an upcoming situation. Minor fee is ok too if the secondaries feel that big of an effect to have consequence.

Without having seen the game in action to know exactly how tit all works. Rift is really my inspiration on a lot of how in game events can happen if the world is not static. There are times when I might be solo farming something and suddenly there is a group event. So maybe I trade some of my dps away for self survival or I notice the healer ratio is low. (With the restriction of being out of combat for however long of course.)

But there is also the possibility the dual system is flexible enough to do that without secondary switching.

ArchivedUser

Make a little work, more content. 

ArchivedUser

Enrif said:

i don't think a fee or a lockout are the way to go. i would do it in a two part way, first you have to do a quest per sub class and you can only swap between those which you finished that quest. 
then it depends if there is a progression system with your second class, levels/mastery or however it may be called, so, would you need to level up the second class after each swap? if so, this is payment enough in my opinion

Exactly this. This would be great.

ArchivedUser

Lethality said:

I don't know if it's been talked about yet, but if there are skill ranks, it would be useful to have skill decay... so if you decide to change secondary classes, your effort to learn it would be reset to 0 if you were to go back to it in the future. There would be a slow decay timer in the background (i.e. not instant).

It's an interesting idea if our secondary class augments need to be leveled up via exp or skill point allocation, but I'd only like that system if it's a very slow decay timer you're talking about. Some skill decay would make sense due to the reasoning of "use it or lose it." How long were you thinking would be fair before your work on a prior secondary class is reset to zero? Weeks? Months?  

A Fighter-Mage who swapped to Fighter-Rogue and then came back to Fighter-Mage after a month of real life time should have their character be a little rusty but it wouldn't make sense to have forgotten everything entirely (I'm not sure what conversion rate the devs plan for in game time. In Chronicles of Elyria 1 week RL = 1 year in game).

Also, in such a system where the secondary class could be completely reset to zero, you should be able to re-acquire that secondary class faster if you ever come back to it.

ArchivedUser

I was hoping for something similar to the suggestion from @Enrif.

1. You must go to a trainer and complete a quest to unlock the secondary class to begin with.
2. You must then train that secondary class to unlock the skill augments.
3. Once unlocked and trained, you can switch at any time, while out of combat.  

This would be handy for adventuring out in the world, as well as in raid or PvP scenarios.  You'd be able to make minor adjustments to your playstyle to compliment your team mates and fit a situation, but you'd have to put in the work to train each secondary class before you could be really useful with it.  
Perhaps even increase the in-game currency price and/or quest and class training difficulty with each addition of a new secondary you want to unlock.  You'd have to be Mr Megabucks and a skillful fighter to unlock all 8 secondaries!
  
I see the logic behind the skill decay suggested by @Lethality though I don't know how I feel about it.  

@Solarion
I believe Steven said one week IRL would be one season in-game during a live stream, so about one year per month.  That might have been an off-the-cuff number he threw out though

ArchivedUser

@Virtek yeah, I think leveling up the 8 augments will be tough enough. I hope that's the path they choose. 

ArchivedUser

The game is being designed around consequence, and meaningful decision-making. So, when choosing a secondary, it should not be a choice made lightly. However, since people obviously change their opinions on things over time, you shouldn't be bound to that decision. It should not be an instant swap, however, and you should have to take time to learn about the new secondary before you can switch.

Having said that: I don't know how they should handle repeat swapping. For example, if you are Mage/Mage, and switch to Mage/Fighter, but then want to switch back to Mage/Mage - I don't think you should have to redo the quest EVERY time you swap to a spec that you had used previously. Just my take on it, of course

EDIT: I see that @Virtek and @Enrif had the same idea, so count me on board as well

ArchivedUser

Don't allow for swapping of primary archetype.

ArchivedUser

I'm very fine with the quest idea, but voted for the flat fee as I think it need to be accessible enough for everyone to change secondary class a bit as they want, try out different things, and have the possibility to change their build depending of what they are doing (example assaulting a Node, exploring/questing or raiding)

ArchivedUser

I know it may never come to it but I'd like to see people playing a class from the get and sticking with it so that's why I voted with what I did. I mean until you figure out what you really wanna play it might be nice to swap a few times but at some point I feel it should be set in stone " Like the freehold I am going to build in the mountain" !

ArchivedUser

I've updated the initial post, but unfortunately I can't change the poll itself.

Some particularly strong suggestions so far have involved a 2 tier system, which involves:

1) Doing a one-time quest to unlock the ability to use a particular secondary class

2) Being able to swap the unlocked secondary classes at a trainer. This could be combined with one of the other mechanisms such as cooldowns and/or fees. Or, it could just involve swapping with no penalty other than the fact that you have to level up each secondary to max level (if exp / skill points apply to Ashes' augment system).

ArchivedUser

If you're in favor of a 2 tier system, please consider posting something like:

2 tier; cooldown 

2 tier; fees

2 tier; no penalty other than leveling 
etc.

Or, just elaborate in your text.

ArchivedUser

Lethality said:

I don't know if it's been talked about yet, but if there are skill ranks, it would be useful to have skill decay... so if you decide to change secondary classes, your effort to learn it would be reset to 0 if you were to go back to it in the future. There would be a slow decay timer in the background (i.e. not instant).

This is not something I'd ever thought about and sounds like a great idea! I think the decision to change specs should be something that should not be taken lightly and has significant consequences but still allows freedom to explore different play styles from time to time (but not on a daily basis). 
In terms of the speed of decay, maybe 2-3 weeks of not using the spec for a full reset...

ArchivedUser

I hope there will be flexibility in swapping classes. Otherwises character might die off if the nerfbat hits. 

ArchivedUser

That kind of evolution is constant through the life of the game so there's no point worrying about it. The big bat comes for us all at one time or another.

ArchivedUser

Should also have to be in a town to rest.