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Weight Limit and Impact on Movement

I think they've already said there's going to be a weight limit, but can we implement it in a better way, than just overweight = slow.  For instance in BDO you have a limit of 100 (for example), now at 99 or 100 you move just as fast as if you had a weight of 10, then soon as you hit 101 you move like a snail.  I'd like to see a "sliding scale" for weight v's movement, the heavier you are the slower you are.

I'd also like to see different classes, races and armour all play a part in movement speed.  So if your an agile, leather wearing, Elven rogue you move a dam sight faster than a plate wearing, short legged Dwarf (no offence to Dwarfs).

As a balance certain classes, races will have better strength/stamina to counter the weight penalties to some extent.

For example in Game of Thrones Bronn fights Ser Vardis, he chooses not to take armour and a shield, but use his leather armour and greater mobility to defeat one of the best swords in the land.  Same as the Mountain v's The Viper, the Viper was winning quite easily until he let his guard slip.

This is not to say Tanks can't win against Mediums etc, they'll traditionally have bigger health pools, harder hitting attacks, and of course better armour to negate a lot of incoming attacks. It'll just make combat more dynamic and interesting, you would end up with 3 or 4 players trying to take down one tank, or the tank holding a "choke point".

Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Nice idea, but one problem I see from the get go:

    If you spec as a tank then you probably wear plate/mail, which by your logic would slow you down. Then if you wanna craft/gather as a tank, you either have to drop the armor and be way more exposed or carry less items around when gathering. How would you solve that problem? (<-- I have no idea, but I agree that a sliding scale would make more sense in some ways).
  • The problem I see is if your race or class determined speed then most would choose the fastest.  I think it would then become a balance issue.  Given certain perks or abilities to enhance movement at times for example by a mages spell, a bards song, with timers or a rogues ability to leap ahead would be fine.  A buff that momentarily increases combat speed is usually available also.  

    Iscoed1815  You say,  "As a balance certain classes, races will have better strength/stamina to counter the weight penalties to some extent."

    But that gives an unfair advantage to those trying to runaway from a pker or monster.  Strength and stamina aren't going to cut it when you need to run fast.

    Weight and back pack space is more attuned with being aware of your limitations and being immersed in your surroundings and actions IMHO.

    Boy don't we all know what being over burdened is like!  Deciding what items to toss to the wind!

    CylverRayne

  • With regards to the gathering/crafting, you could have specific light armours with added buffs for those particular tasks, BDO has something similar.  And yes you may be at the mercy of others, but this is supposed to by an MMO, so you either group up to do your gathering or hire players to protect you, giving the game added player interaction.

    And while plate wearers would be slow, it wouldn't be by much, say 5% and light armour would get say an added 5% movement speed, so in all a swing of 10%.  But it's in the combat it should matter, a light armour class should be able to "dance around" plate wearers, but should they get hit, it's going to hurt.  Classes could then have variants depending on weight, so you could have a "light tank", mail and sword medium, plate and 2 or 1 hander, heavy, plate and sword and board.  This could follow through for all classes, it would add an extra dimension to the characters, instead of just have "cookie cutter" builds.
  • Nice idea, but one problem I see from the get go:

    If you spec as a tank then you probably wear plate/mail, which by your logic would slow you down. Then if you wanna craft/gather as a tank, you either have to drop the armor and be way more exposed or carry less items around when gathering. How would you solve that problem? (<-- I have no idea, but I agree that a sliding scale would make more sense in some ways).
    Either what @Iscoed1815 suggested... or forgo some realism for the sake of player convenience and make the weight difference between plate and cloth minor. 
  • Maybe instead of being encumbered by what you carry it just limits your bag space:

    instead of bag slots where one item= one slot, your bag instead records weight. Once you reach your weight limit your bag will register as full.

    if people don't like that then keep the normal bag system but don't allow players to carry beyond the weight limit. If you have 100lbs of ore and 14 empty slots remaining, then you need to remove that ore to unlock bag space 
  • I agree with everyone's points that although the idea is great it's not perfect with reasons already mentioned.
    However i still don't want to evolve into a snail like bdo. There will be a solution somewhere!

    I loved your game of thrones example xD Made me chuckle :3
  • Weight limits ( Burden ) is not a new idea. Asheron's Call had a system wherein you strength stat determined what you could carry so Melee classes that relied on strength as a primary stat that they relied on for damage could carry more. However since they were always in melee combat as burden ramped up there melee defense, run speed and jumped were all very affected by the burden so you could not afford to carry it as you stamina would drain quickly if you were overburdened from dodging etc. the effect was the same for everyone butt keep in mind that for a long time melee classes would have to wear heavy armor so there was balance there. Additionally there ability to self buff was impacted because they put there stats into strength coordination and quickness. This of course created a symbiotic relationship between casters and melee ( meat shields) who physically blocked the mobs and prevented them when possible form accessing the lightly armored casters. If you died you stats were also effected by vitae ( 10% flat reduction in stats each death up to 40%) until you worked it off by fighting mobs and gaining it back as the xp rolled in. So the consequences of Burden in the right system make a ton of sense. Also you have to take into consideration in most PVE areas you won't face a player threat  (PVP) but you will face a threat from mobs who should enjoy a hearty meal courtesy of the overburdened Toon walking by. 

    You could of course introduce a mechanic where you could hit a Flee button and drop some back packs that would decay to public loot status after x minutes. That would be fun. You could even have the packs marked as belonging to player x so if i were to find one i could return it to you for a required reward or keep it and skulk off with my new found treasure. Further if the pack did decay the surrounding mobs would take possession of your goods and you could forcibly retrieve it from them lol  NOW that would be fun!!!!!!!
  • I think weight limit has no place in an MMO. Sure, it adds a practical realism aspect, but it is as much of an illusion as infinite bag space is. If you're really harsh, it hinders players and usually follows with complication (such as adding more code that can break and following formulas for X str = x weight carry limit and attempting to set a max str constibution), if you're lenient, it breaks the suspension of disbelief as much as infinite bag space (DnD's bag of holding idea is fairly well accepted these days in modern MMOs).

    A huge component of MMOs is collecting items, be it gathering or looting gear, and bag space is the primary control for how many items you can carry. If you institute weight limit, then you might as well drop the concept of "bags" in that X bag gives you X slots. In coding this, usually an item in a slot is assigned to it as item XXXX in the database, and X quantity of an item. This is practical on the data side, and gives players a clear idea of what to expect to hold in the bags and how to manage it. Clearing out bags are already enough of a hassle in modern MMOs without having to do math on the amount of weight you can carry, and what you have could drop to be under X movement penalty. If you don't want people to carry a lot of things and keep that particular suspension, you should limit bag slots, and how much a player needs to carry in general.

    You also don't want to end up in bag-ception like GW2, where you loot bags of loot that stack up to 250, then open them, salvage the bad gear and remotely deposit/sell the leftovers. The only interaction you have to make is take a trip to pick up gold from the Auction House or manually deposit gear you want to keep in the Bank, and these can be done remotely as well with pay/rng reward oriented services.

    TL;DR To sum it up, I think it is best left to single-player games where you could be expected to keep more of a strict suspension of disbelief, but keep inventory size down to something manageable. (WoW actually has a pretty good system, especially with the addition of the collection UI for permanent "item" unlocks, the void storage and bank space is their main weakness)

    I think it is also important from a design standpoint to follow a few principles, such as keeping the code/systems efficient (the KISS principle) and also considering positive reinforcement psychology. Spaghetti Code is something to avoid, especially with so much scope and resource requirement on this project, just as much as running players off with punishment systems vs reinforcements (see this Gamasutra article on Blizz game design principles under "Make it a Bonus": http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/118583/GDC_Blizzards_Core_Game_Design_Concepts.php ).

  • That sounds fun, so you could have a "go bag" which contains all your essentials, so for raids/PvP etc this would be the only thing you carried, it would have a few spare slots for raid loot.  Your other bags would contain your current loot etc, and could be dropped in desperate times.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Nice idea, but one problem I see from the get go:

    If you spec as a tank then you probably wear plate/mail, which by your logic would slow you down. Then if you wanna craft/gather as a tank, you either have to drop the armor and be way more exposed or carry less items around when gathering. How would you solve that problem? (<-- I have no idea, but I agree that a sliding scale would make more sense in some ways).
    I think that would be awesome, and I'd love to see those kinds of choices and tradeoffs for players to make!

    If I'm going out gathering, maybe I carry along my armor but it's not equipped, putting me at risk (and adding weight and taking space in my bag), But by wearing the appropriate gathering clothes, I can do that job much better. This opens up Artisans to progress in things like outfits for crafting, and stuff.

    I'm actually fine with the way weight encumbrance works in BDO. It effectively stops you from carrying unlimited things with you and makes you visit a warehouse or bank often enough to feel like it matters. And you have your Strength stat that can improve to help you carry more, etc.

  • Nice idea, but one problem I see from the get go:

    If you spec as a tank then you probably wear plate/mail, which by your logic would slow you down. Then if you wanna craft/gather as a tank, you either have to drop the armor and be way more exposed or carry less items around when gathering. How would you solve that problem? (<-- I have no idea, but I agree that a sliding scale would make more sense in some ways).
    I see your point but if you are playing a tank spec don't you think they would be a little stronger of a character from wearing all that plate and clad armor and not have a difference on weight as a mage would who only wears a cloth robes and is a lot weaker to begin with. 
  • See this is why I love computers. You can just give all of your rubbish to your miinons while you just walk around without a care in the world 
  • I think weight limit has no place in an MMO. Sure, it adds a practical realism aspect, but it is as much of an illusion as infinite bag space is. If you're really harsh, it hinders players and usually follows with complication (such as adding more code that can break and following formulas for X str = x weight carry limit and attempting to set a max str contribution), if you're lenient, it breaks the suspension of disbelief as much as infinite bag space (DnD's bag of holding idea is fairly well accepted these days in modern MMOs).

    A huge component of MMOs is collecting items, be it gathering or looting gear, and bag space is the primary control for how many items you can carry. If you institute weight limit, then you might as well drop the concept of "bags" in that X bag gives you X slots. In coding this, usually an item in a slot is assigned to it as item XXXX in the database, and X quantity of an item. This is practical on the data side, and gives players a clear idea of what to expect to hold in the bags and how to manage it. Clearing out bags are already enough of a hassle in modern MMOs without having to do math on the amount of weight you can carry, and what you have could drop to be under X movement penalty. If you don't want people to carry a lot of things and keep that particular suspension, you should limit bag slots, and how much a player needs to carry in general.

    You also don't want to end up in bag-ception like GW2, where you loot bags of loot that stack up to 250, then open them, salvage the bad gear and remotely deposit/sell the leftovers. The only interaction you have to make is take a trip to pick up gold from the Auction House or manually deposit gear you want to keep in the Bank, and these can be done remotely as well with pay/rng reward oriented services.

    TL;DR To sum it up, I think it is best left to single-player games where you could be expected to keep more of a strict suspension of disbelief, but keep inventory size down to something manageable. (WoW actually has a pretty good system, especially with the addition of the collection UI for permanent "item" unlocks, the void storage and bank space is their main weakness)

    I think it is also important from a design standpoint to follow a few principles, such as keeping the code/systems efficient (the KISS principle) and also considering positive reinforcement psychology. Spaghetti Code is something to avoid, especially with so much scope and resource requirement on this project, just as much as running players off with punishment systems vs reinforcements (see this Gamasutra article on Blizz game design principles under "Make it a Bonus": http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/118583/GDC_Blizzards_Core_Game_Design_Concepts.php ).
  • I think weight limit has no place in an MMO. Sure, it adds a practical realism aspect, but it is as much of an illusion as infinite bag space is. If you're really harsh, it hinders players and usually follows with complication (such as adding more code that can break and following formulas for X str = x weight carry limit and attempting to set a max str constibution), if you're lenient, it breaks the suspension of disbelief as much as infinite bag space (DnD's bag of holding idea is fairly well accepted these days in modern MMOs).

    A huge component of MMOs is collecting items, be it gathering or looting gear, and bag space is the primary control for how many items you can carry. If you institute weight limit, then you might as well drop the concept of "bags" in that X bag gives you X slots. In coding this, usually an item in a slot is assigned to it as item XXXX in the database, and X quantity of an item. This is practical on the data side, and gives players a clear idea of what to expect to hold in the bags and how to manage it. Clearing out bags are already enough of a hassle in modern MMOs without having to do math on the amount of weight you can carry, and what you have could drop to be under X movement penalty. If you don't want people to carry a lot of things and keep that particular suspension, you should limit bag slots, and how much a player needs to carry in general.

    You also don't want to end up in bag-ception like GW2, where you loot bags of loot that stack up to 250, then open them, salvage the bad gear and remotely deposit/sell the leftovers. The only interaction you have to make is take a trip to pick up gold from the Auction House or manually deposit gear you want to keep in the Bank, and these can be done remotely as well with pay/rng reward oriented services.

    TL;DR To sum it up, I think it is best left to single-player games where you could be expected to keep more of a strict suspension of disbelief, but keep inventory size down to something manageable. (WoW actually has a pretty good system, especially with the addition of the collection UI for permanent "item" unlocks, the void storage and bank space is their main weakness)

    I think it is also important from a design standpoint to follow a few principles, such as keeping the code/systems efficient (the KISS principle) and also considering positive reinforcement psychology. Spaghetti Code is something to avoid, especially with so much scope and resource requirement on this project, just as much as running players off with punishment systems vs reinforcements (see this Gamasutra article on Blizz game design principles under "Make it a Bonus": http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/118583/GDC_Blizzards_Core_Game_Design_Concepts.php ).
  • I think weight limit has no place in an MMO. Sure, it adds a practical realism aspect, but it is as much of an illusion as infinite bag space is. If you're really harsh, it hinders players and usually follows with complication (such as adding more code that can break and following formulas for X str = x weight carry limit and attempting to set a max str constibution), if you're lenient, it breaks the suspension of disbelief as much as infinite bag space (DnD's bag of holding idea is fairly well accepted these days in modern MMOs).

    A huge component of MMOs is collecting items, be it gathering or looting gear, and bag space is the primary control for how many items you can carry. If you institute weight limit, then you might as well drop the concept of "bags" in that X bag gives you X slots. In coding this, usually an item in a slot is assigned to it as item XXXX in the database, and X quantity of an item. This is practical on the data side, and gives players a clear idea of what to expect to hold in the bags and how to manage it. Clearing out bags are already enough of a hassle in modern MMOs without having to do math on the amount of weight you can carry, and what you have could drop to be under X movement penalty. If you don't want people to carry a lot of things and keep that particular suspension, you should limit bag slots, and how much a player needs to carry in general.

    You also don't want to end up in bag-ception like GW2, where you loot bags of loot that stack up to 250, then open them, salvage the bad gear and remotely deposit/sell the leftovers. The only interaction you have to make is take a trip to pick up gold from the Auction House or manually deposit gear you want to keep in the Bank, and these can be done remotely as well with pay/rng reward oriented services.

    TL;DR To sum it up, I think it is best left to single-player games where you could be expected to keep more of a strict suspension of disbelief, but keep inventory size down to something manageable. (WoW actually has a pretty good system, especially with the addition of the collection UI for permanent "item" unlocks, the void storage and bank space is their main weakness)

    I think it is also important from a design standpoint to follow a few principles, such as keeping the code/systems efficient (the KISS principle) and also considering positive reinforcement psychology. Spaghetti Code is something to avoid, especially with so much scope and resource requirement on this project, just as much as running players off with punishment systems vs reinforcements (see this Gamasutra article on Blizz game design principles under "Make it a Bonus": http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/118583/GDC_Blizzards_Core_Game_Design_Concepts.php ).
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