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How to balance PVP and PVE?

ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
in Ashes Of Creation General Discussion
WoW has shown that designing balanced pvp and pve is pretty hard, they even had to basically set aside stats in battle grounds and give everyone standardized stats with minimal differences between gear levels and I think thats a problem that's going to face Ashes of Creation.

I don't honestly know what the best solution is.

Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Ashes is PVX, Splitting in the first place was the problem.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    First of all, WoW is a PvE game, PvP is a minigame in WoW. Whereas a lot more focus will be put into PvP in AoC. WoW neglects their PvP players and don't put much effort into PvP aspects of the game.

    I'm sure they are developing AoC in such a way where both PvE and PvP will be equally as relevant, instead of PvP being a minigame.

    Fear not, child, your player murderous tendencies will be satisfied in the world of AoC.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Deyarn said:
    Fear not, child, your player murderous tendencies will be satisfied in the world of AoC.
    So long as my class is OP, I don't mind all of the others being totally balanced :mrgreen:
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    It's PVX and both PvP and PVE will be treated pretty much the same other then those arenas.  Up to you how you grow your character including the armor.  Will be good to know pve crafters if you want your best I asume.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    I can't recall what was said in the livestream but it was a wheel or something I believe. 
    Start anywhere in the cycle. PVE progresses and defends it from even't and dungeion that will open according to the placement in the Node > PVP defends from enemies and besieges alike while progressing the node too > PVE progresses the "story" while also keeping npc's safe > PvP can alter economy at any time by attacking/defending caravans that heavily affect nodes.

    I may be off by quite a way but it was something like this.

    :)
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    I think the problem a lot of people have, is when something PVE gets nerfed because of PVP. Either skills, or items that do something. GW2 for example had loads of mini fluff items that had effects, but because a few got abused they all just were made worthless (had the fun removed) after much crying on the forums. There's loads of examples from other games, even guns in Destiny. Now I'm not saying that game breaking things shouldn't be addressed...

    ...but I'm *so* tired of everything always being nerfed to the lowest common denominator. SWTOR for example had some cool crafting items / professions at the start, but after much complaining it all became level and boring and worthless.

    This reply is slightly off topic really, but usually things get changed because of how they affect PVP, it's the most obvious place these things come to light.

    Some games put in ridiculous systems where in pve you do like 20,000 crits but pvp you do 2,000 crits, I feel like that just breaks immersion. Other games have the even more ridiculous idea of some kind of PvP defense gear (WoW (later), Rift) where if you don't PvP you can't even hurt someone who does eventually.

    i don't really want to have to put some overpriced pvp jewels in my gear - sacrificing pve stats - to fend off unwanted gankers. So I hope they leave all that crap out, in a game where everything is mixed up I don't want to have to have 2 sets of gear because of some weird system in place.

    It's a tough one, and it's hard to do right I just hope the constant whining which will happen doesn't result in everything being dulled down.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Dunno considering the type of game and all I have heard, why would there be a difference from PvP gear to PvE gear in this game? It's open world basically and anything pretty much goes.  Even an unflagged person can get hit unlike other games so wouldn't he want to be decked out in the best he could get also?  
    Also this is the type of game where you can do both right off.  A PvE player might get caught up in a siege he wasn't planning on.  This game is not like WOW or the others that have staged battle grounds.
    It's not a PvE game with some PvP thrown in. This game is dependent on both.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    There are a couple compilation guides here in the forums that list everything the devs had written or stated in youtube vids with timestamps and everything. Though the search function is borked on the forums atm, you could find out the stated info rather than just speculating. It is going to be a PVX game. No difference in abilities or gear. They are looking at arenas, no definite answer last I saw. But in those arenas there will be no difference in gear or stats or abilities from the pve side. You will exist in one of three states. Non combatant (green) combatant (purple) or corrupted (red). You can be attacked by anyone else at any time in any of the states, just what happens penaltywise to you and the attacker varies on your state. 

    Xephita said: but I'm *so* tired of everything always being nerfed to the lowest common denominator. SWTOR for example had some cool crafting items / professions at the start, but after much complaining it all became level and boring and worthless.

    I remember SWTOR different nerfs to cosmetics back in the day. The reason why was often people exploiting unintended effects. For example, there was a super rare drop that would turn you into a random barrel or crate. I had one of the first ones to drop. The reason they nerfed the shit out of it was that if I was getting my ass kicked in pvp, I could activate it, turn into a crate, and wasn't able to be targetted or attacked. So when a crafty playerbase finds loopholes in what a developer had planned as a fun toy, expect nerfs.

    We are a good, long time out from any sort of testing even. Rampant speculation on what is all subject to change only causes people to get more toxic when their particular vision isn't realized. I can guarantee you though, I will be one of those in testing, trying my best to break/exploit the systems with all my usual deviousness, so that when we do go live people can rest easy. Till of course someone even more devious than me comes along.

    Edit: Went out and found one. There is a better one out there, but having trouble finding it.     https://docs.google.com/document/d/14luppZ3Ub8jmcw_aK65QWxYY4xa8qAo9zRfpYWBxOXE/edit#heading=h.pxqmubh58h1n
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    I'm hoping for the illogical perfect balance. Bar that I'd like it to be pretty clean where only a couple classes might have an issue with being OP or underpowered. Still I'll hold out faith for that mythical balance. =P
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    the problems that come up are that people are born whingers and there will always be someone on the forums complaining that this or that class/skill is OP, when most usually its just that the person sucks at pvp. such as myself... but i know i suck at it so i dont worry too much when i constantly get my arse handed to me.  as long as yuou are aware of your flaws you dont need to get upset about them :)
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    I think it's funny when people believe that balancing would be easy since it is PVX. I do not believe that it is easy and I am not really sure if it is possible especially with the number of class combinations we can end up with. For example, do you balance a tank around their ability to soak up damage from a boss or a player? And if the damage is similar then people will find ways to cheese encounters to get more damage out. Same really goes for healing or DPS. Let alone spells and effects that maybe too OP in PVP or PVE. This is why Blizzard went through so many iterations of talents, gear and templates. I just hope that intrepid can learn from other games and not repeat history.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    @Meudestroy Well your right it's not easy but with clear perimeters to create a rough middle ground that works for both PvE and PvP it is slightly (And I really do mean slightly...) easier to do. The main issue with making separate cultures for PvP and PvE is you split the population. Causes discrepancies you can't easily adjust for in most situations.

    I agree though. All we can really hope for is that Intrepid finds that niche.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    *Spots someone else she hasn't welcomed, so flings a welcoming flash-mob silent-disco at @Meudestroy *

    UnknownSystemError said:
    when a crafty playerbase finds loopholes in what a developer had planned as a fun toy, expect nerfs.

    Yup... and I believe that the trick / difficulty is going to be in remaining focused over the coming years on ensuring that they remain true to their initial intent / ideals. 

    Fingers crossed eh, because no one wants a game full of homogenisation or a game that's ended up somewhere that no-one expected and no-one wanted. :)

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