Stealth mechanics

ArchivedUser

Hello Everyone,
Not sure if this has been asked or if we have any info on it. I tried searching it on the forums but I didn't find anything. So here goes. 

How will stealth work in Ashes? will it be close to WOW where the rogue can stay invisible indefinitely and will not be spotted unless he is literally on top of the other player? Or will there be a timer on the stealth (I forget which game I played that did that)? Will other classes have abilities to reveal them? will guards have better detection? . Often rogues can be a huge source of imbalance, cheesing mechanics, ganking, and a lot of fun as well. I just wanted to know if we had info on the design philosophy. Really any info would be great. Maybe I missed something because it was said on discord or a live stream and I am apologize if there is already a thread that I missed

Thank you. 

ArchivedUser

Nothing I have been able to find but i'm hoping it's a toggle type skill that slowly takes from MP. Also drastically lowering defenses while in use

ArchivedUser

Cannot stay invisible forever. Some form of timer.
Some classes will be able to counter/detect invisibility.
Whether guards have better detection will depend on the class of the guard(s).
Info is from a Livestream.

ArchivedUser

Please no timer, other games have added toggle and it works great. If you use it too long and waste your mana than you aren't going to do much afterwards

ArchivedUser

I don't much care for stealth that is timed, stealth offers an ability to go afk suddenly if you have family that is intolerant of video games or children that may suddenly need you. Now I'm not saying give me super op stealth, you need to be aware, cautious of your distance to mobs and have to be creative to keep it from being broken and of course class detection for pvp scenarios or bosses that can sense you.

ArchivedUser

As a player of rogues I have tried many different stealth systems and I have reached the following conclusions: Stealth should have a cost. This cost should be a function of conditions (movement rate, shadows, day/night, available cover, what the stealth character is equipped with and proximity and orientation of observers). Observers should have the options to develop a counter ability. And lastly attacking from behind and from stealth should have a bonus to damage.

ArchivedUser

If you limit stealth it might as well not exist. If you make any type of visibility players will alter their screens to see you better. they will find loopholes. a rogues only chance is going to be being up close and personal if you think your going to be a mage and fight a fair fight against a rogue who has to run up to you clear as day that to me just sounds ridiculous.

You are asking to take away from what makes a rogue, a rogue!

ArchivedUser

WinterAssassin said:

If you limit stealth it might as well not exist. If you make any type of visibility players will alter their screens to see you better. they will find loopholes. a rogues only chance is going to be being up close and personal if you think your going to be a mage and fight a fair fight against a rogue who has to run up to you clear as day that to me just sounds ridiculous.

You are asking to take away from what makes a rogue, a rogue!

I agree completely.  I remember when WOW nerfed their rogue class in response to whining from other classes.  I understand that it is frustrating to get killed by a player that has the ability to be invisible, but stealth is what makes a rogue a rogue.  

It's not really different than being killed by a mages magic or losing a fight to a warrior because his armor provides him so much damage mitigation that you can barely hurt him.  

It was like WOW Devs pandered to all the crybabies by giving every other class an easy ability that totally negated any advantage a rogue had due to their stealth ability.  Like mages spamming aoe in arenas because they know it's either a Rogue or Druid they are going up against.  Or increasing a Paladin's damage output to rival that of a rogue or Mage.  I mean, C'mon really!  Pallys already had Plate armor, healing spells, Impenetrable Bubble, and a spell that raised their health back up to full.  Haven't played WOW in a long while, so not sure if they ever balanced anything out.

Stealth gives the rogue an advantage due to the element of surprise, but that is useless when the rogue's opponent knows the rogue is there, and can bring him out of stealth with a spammable ability before the rogue even gets close. (Like in arenas)

By nerfing stealth you basically cripple the rogue class.  Unless they plan on making rogues badass even when they are out of stealth.  

ArchivedUser

I won't mind a timer if the cool down was lower do you can just reapply your stealth

ArchivedUser

Karthos said:

I won't mind a timer if the cool down was lower do you can just reapply your stealth

I think my only issue is there shouldn't be an issue with a toggle. By the time the toggle has been applied for the length that the cooldown version lasts, the rogue will start to hurt on mana. So, if the rogue decides to then attack, he will be limited on how much damage he can do because of the lack of mana.

@Havenshade
I hope they aren't just "badass". I like the play style of rogues too much. they are typically squishy but it takes good execution to pull off some of those kills

ArchivedUser

I have no problem with how stealth worked in WoW. A toggleable stealth is fine in my books

ArchivedUser

Stealth in my opinion, can make or break the game for rogues. It will have a cooldown and I believe a duration.

Coming from an rogue/assassin like player, I never liked how easy it is for the user freely use stealth. I hope they implement two different types of stealth. Battle Stealth that can be used in combat and passive stealth that can only be used outside of combat. I want stealth to be one identity for rogues and shouldn't be just the core mechanic that defines a rogue.  Perhaps the rogue can be more into melee combos, stun locks,or trapping players with traps. Also you can maybe spec your rogue to be just for stealth like gameplay but I feel it should be more spread out to the players' play style more than anything.

ArchivedUser

im hoping to be able to use a combination of both skills and environment to sneak as a rogue. given that mages get an illumination skill, nights should be pretty dark at times, i hope.

ArchivedUser

I want to be able to hide in a bush and it would affect a player, where all of a sudden your character goes gray once you're in the bush from being "stealthy".

ArchivedUser

I would like to see rogues have to stick to the shadows for stealth, no way they should be able to vanish in broad daylight.

ArchivedUser

im just going to leave this here