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Making All Classes Important, Here is How i would Do it

Making Every Class in Ashes Unique, Here is How i Would Do It.

There are two pillars that make an MMORPG’s combat interesting to most gamers. One is the balance, and the other is how well archetypes work together. I think most gamers would agree if these two things aren’t well met that that game’s particular combat will be broken, or unfair to some. For example, if the game isn’t well balanced, then some archetypes will reign supreme while those archetypes who are on the unfortunate side of the balancing wheel will always be inferior, or second picks. On the other hand, if some of the available Archetypes function well within a team, while others don’t, then those archetypes that are less effective in a team combination will be less desirable, or be second picks for anything that requires heavy coordination and team work. I think Ashes of creation needs to get these two aforementioned pillars, especially the second one right in order to have a good and engaging combat. After all, this is an MMO where systems such as Node leveling, Caravan escorting, and Node Sieges are core systems that all encourage team-play rather than solo play. Therefore, it will be absolutely necessary to have all main archetypes be important to some degree when playing team oriented content. The good news is that Ashes will not suffer from such problems. Steven, I can’t recall where, implied that all main archetypes will be important for team play. And that each archetype will bring something unique to the table that will make them desirable. So, I felt an impulse to assist in bringing this dream to live.  That’s why I am writing this. In this post, I will be suggesting a system to ensure that all archetypes are important and necessary to triumph in all team oriented situations.


How Will This System Work? 

This system will work by giving a passive to each main archetype. Nothing special; however, what makes it unique (not really) is how well these passives blend together. It’s like an ecosystem where every passive depends on others. Simply put, this system will work by giving every main archetype some gimmick that makes them a good team player. Some of these passives, as you will see in the summoner section, are intended for single player situations, but can still be modified, or used such that it can be useful for team play. This read will be long, so pare with me. If you would like to add something to this, quote the specific part you would like to improve/change, and then write what you’ve to say. Please be constructive. I know this system is by no means perfect, but together, we can work on it and make  something transformative. This is all a suggestion I would love to see in the game. Not literally, but a modified version of it. Lastly, i don't own the art. Without further ado, let’s begin.

Edite: Keep in mind that the numbers I mention here can be modified to balance these passives such that no one passive is extremely overpowered. Also, you can suggest names in the comment section. The names I used here are just what I thought would be appropriate, go wild :). Also, you can directly go to section discussing the class that interests you most :)


Mage Passive “Transmit Orbs”

Passive Description

Every 20s, an orb materializes and revolves around the Mage. These orbs can stack up to 3, and will orbit the mage. So, a minute for all three to come out. These orbs can be positioned on the ground, and have a 40s duration once placed on the ground. They can be used for various things such instantaneous teleportation, stat bonuses to the activator as well as allies, and many more.

An idea of How it will Function.

First, the orb(s) can be placed in a circular region that has a 30 meter radius. This circular region will have its centre (0, 0) placed on where the Mage is standing. To place an Orb, the player has to click an skill icon that is on top of the quick access bar. Like the place where the pet activation icon was from WoW. 

This icon, if right clicked, will initiate the orb(s) placement UI. The diameter of this placement region is 60 meters, and once the player right clicks the icon representing the transmit orbs, the camera will zoom out (60 meters is really far, and the player needs to be able to view a larger region to adequately place the orbs). Once the camera distance is sufficient enough to cover 60 meters, the player can place the orbs. This zooming out process doesn’t take long to allow flexibility during combat. Milliseconds make all the difference.Once the player gets a stack of 3 orbs, the orbs stop materializing.

  1.  Once the first orb is placed on the ground, the clock starts again so to replenish the orbs  
  2. Placing the first orb is instantaneous, and doesn’t require casting    
  3. Placing the second and the third orbs requires casting (4s, 5s, 6s).  Each orb has a thousand health points. 50% = 500 hp, and can be attacked by players.

The Uses of the Orb(s)

  • Once the orb is placed, the mage can instantly teleport to where the orb is (Total freedom as to where you can place these orbs within the circular region.) However, once the Mage teleports to where the orb is, that particular orb will lose 50% of its health. If the orb doesn’t have 50% health remaining, then the Mage can’t teleport to it.
  • A blue arrow appears on the feet of the player indicating where the orb is. These or this arrow will work to guide the player as to where the orbs are. Clicking Shift+ (WASD, the appropriate direction) will teleport the player to the orb.
  •  Each orb sends a beam of light to other neighboring orbs that are created by that player. If the player, for example, places the orbs in a pyramid like shape, then beams of light will connect the orbs, and a pyramid like shape will form. This pyramid shape is the Mage’s region of influence.
  • This influence region, within the pyramid in last example, can grant bonuses to the Mage as well as any allies within it. Moreover, it will stop any Rogues from stealing the Mage’s passive (Transmit Orbs). More on that in a bit.
  • Any allies that have a Mage primary archetype will receive a damage bonus if they step within the Main Mage’s region of influence. Additionally, these players could (Could) maybe unlock some exclusive skill alterations that are only available when a primary mage steps in the region of influence of a Main mage.
  • Additionally, any allies (including the Mage) within the region of influence, even those who have a mage primary, will receive a shield based on what type of damage their main archetype does. So, a fighter will gain physical shield, shielding them from physical damage. Whereby an ally Mage would receive a Magic shield, shielding them from magic damage etc..  This shield is a onetime shield, and if removed, will not be re-applied until all the orbs disappear (40s). This remains the case even if the player exits the region of influence and returns to it.
  • The player who activated these orbs gains a bonus movement speed, and bonus magic damage in the region of influence.


That’s it for the mage passive. Add, or adjust anything you would like, but keep it balanced. Never go full op :D


Rogues Passive: Knowledge lifting

Passive Description

In most fantasy mmos, Rogues are thieves, which makes them really observant people. So, this passive makes sense lore wise.

  • “Knowledge Lifting” is an active skill that requires special circumstances to activate, and if the Rogue uses it on any hostile player, they gain the ability to use their passive. 
  • The passive “Knowledge Lifting” enables the Rogue to steal any passive, however, it has a 120s cooldown time, and a 40s duration. So, the Rogue will have the stolen passive for 40s, and will have to wait 80s to steal another passive. The passive can’t be removed once it’s stolen, so as Steven says “Choose wisely”.
  • The Rogue will always gain half the effect a passive has on stats. For example, if a passive gives 5 magic damage when its original owner is using it, then the Rogue will get 2.5. However, if a passive enables its owner to access a certain mechanic that doesn’t have effect on stats, then the Rogue will gain access to that mechanic completely. Like the teleportation from the transmit orbs.
  • The player whose passive is stolen won’t actually lose their passive. It’s just that the Rogue now has their passive.
  • “Knowledge Lifting” grants nothing other than passive stealing.
  • If a Rogue steals a passive from a player, say a Mage, then other Rogues can steal the mage  passive from that Rogue. In other words, if a Rogue is outplayed :D, then they completely lose the stolen passive.
  • When a Rogue is within the Region of influence of a well place “Transmit Orbs”, the Rogue will not be able to steal any Magic user’s passive. So, the Rogue won’t be able to steal the passive of Mages, Bards, Summoners etc.. However, they can take the passives of Fighters, Tanks, and Rangers assuming Ranger is a physical archetype like Fighters and Tanks. 

An idea of How it will Function. 

  • The passive “Knowledge Lifting” is an active skill. To use it, the Rogue has to stun-lock the target, and get behind them. Once the target is stunned, and the Rogue is placed behind them, using the active skill “Knowledge Lifting” on their target will give them the specific passive of their target. “Knowledge Lifting” is a single target skill. 
  • I feel this passive is overpowered, but in reality I have placed many constraints, and ways other archetypes can counter it. A mage can just place his orbs really well and hide in the region of influence, and as we will see below, most other archetypes have ways to deal with this.  

Summoner Passive: Subdue detestation 

To understand this, we need to understand elemental effects. I think Steven said something about how they will be in the game, so this is how they can be harnessed. Say a monster’s natural habitat is near a volcano. Without a doubt, that monster must be resistant to fire damage. Therefore, when a Summoner uses “Subdue Detestation”, and tame that creature, they get their resistance to fire damage as a passive. In other words, once a summoner summons a monster, they get that monster’s passive as their own passive. This will require that monsters in the game have their own passives. Anyways, moving on. 

Passive Description 

The passive Subdue Detestation allows Summoners to tame humanoid creatures. Not to mount them, but to have them turned into minions that can fight alongside the Summoner, and grant passives.

An idea of How it will Function.

- Monsters in the game have tiers. Tier l monsters are monsters that don’t have any passives. However, monsters that are tier ll and above offer passives that can grant elemental bonuses. Tier l monster that lives near a volcano offers no passives i.e. resist to fire damage. Whereby a tier ll monster that lives near a volcano offers a passive that gives fire resistance once summoned.

- Subdue Detestation is an active skill that has a casting of 50 seconds. During this time, the summoner is subduing the hatred in the monster’s heart, and purifying it. (Beg for the RNG gods) Upon completing the purification process, the monster turns into an skill icon that can be put on a quick bar for quick access, or summoned from a window containing a list of all tamed monsters/creatures.

- This skill looks like a solo-oriented skill, but it can be used such that it’s useful in a team fight. For example, if a summoner tames a cleric like monster that has some skills to heal other monsters, then the summoner might gain the cleric like passive that this cleric like monster could offer. Likewise, we all know being a primary cleric offers a self heal. Well, this priest like monster might offer a passive that increases the amount of HP this self heal recovers. The possibilities are limitless.

- Subdue Detestation allows summoners to tame creatures that aren’t tamable by conventional means. I recall Steven said you can’t tame humanoid creatures. However, this passive will enable summoners to tame most untameable creatures in the world such as humanoids. Keep in mind though; this taming isn’t to mount these creatures, but to use them as battle companions. Riding a humanoid wouldn’t look normal :D. Maybe a giant, but regular sized creatures shouldn’t be mountable.

- A Rogue can never steal the passive “Subdue Detestation”, summoner’s passive. However, once the summoner summons a monster, and gains the passive of that monster, the Rogue can steal the obtained passive.

- If the summoned/purified monster is within the region of influence of a well shaped transmit orbs, then they will receive a physical or magical shield depending on the type of damage that monster does.

Cleric Passive: Passive Temperance.

Passive Temperance is a passive buff that can be automatically activated by healing an ally with or less than 50% health to 100% Health. Its effect is pretty apparent from the name, and that it tempers the passive of every main archetype.

How it works?

Once the player successfully heals the ally to max health, the cleric will act as the center (0, 0) for a circle with a 40 meter diameter. Any Ally ( In a party, or raid) that is being attacked in the open world, or by a monster who is within this circle will obtain the effect of Passive Temperance. Passive Temperance has a cooldown time of 120s and lasts for 40s.

  • This effect will be active for each archetype while they’re in the region of influence. If they’re outside the region of influence, then the player can no longer have the effect applied.



How it will temper each passive?

  • For a Mage, the effect will be as follows

§ One extra orb. This orb materializes instantaneously once the mage steps into the circle. However, if the mage steps out of the circle, then the obtained extra orb will disappear instantaneously.

           §  If the region of influence of a cleric overlaps with the region of influence of a mage’s transmit orbs, then the bonuses granted by the the mage’s region of influence will double. Or increase by a certain amplifier.

           §  Once the mage is in the region of influence of a Cleric, placing the second orb is instantaneous i.e. doesn’t require casting.

  • For a Rogue, the effect will be as follows

           §  The Rogue will have the option to remove any stolen passives once in the region of influence of a Cleric’s Passive Temperance.

             §  The cooldown to steal another passive will be reduced from 120s to 80s, which will lower the waiting time from 80s to 40s.

             §  If a Rogue steals the passive of a Cleric and enters the region of influence of another cleric’s passive temperance, then that Rogue can no longer keep his/her stolen passive temperance. However, both influence regions can overlap. It’s just that the rogue has to stay out of the ally, or enemy Cleric’s region of influence or else.


  • For a Summoner, the effect will be as follows

            §  The summoner can instantly cast “Subdue Detestation” instead of casting it for 50s. This is the case because Clerics are holy and their sheer presence negates evil.

            §  Rogues will not be able to steal the passive of the summoner once they’re in the region of influence of a Cleric. Keep in mind, Rogues can’t actually steal “Subdue Detestation”, summoner’s passive. Rather, they can steal the passive summoners obtain by summoning a tamed creature. As we discussed above, each monster offers a passive, and once a summoner summons a monster, they gain that passive. Rogues can’t steel that once the summoner is in the region of influence of a Cleric.

  • For a Ranger, the effect will be as follows

              §  The cooldown time of Involuntary Response will be reduced by 50% and the duration will be increased by 50%. Therefore, 40s cooldown time and 15s duration.

              §  The region of influence will be magnified to be (preferably 40 meters).

  • For a Tank, the effect will be as follows

              §  The base stats “Impending Sacrifice” grants will be doubled, or increased by a certain amplifier.

  • For a Fighter, the effect will be as follows

             §  The consumption rate of blood will decrease i.e. the duration of blood imposter will be increased.

            §  Blood imposter will have double the PvE effects. However, the effects obtained by killing players will not double.


Ranger Passive: Involuntary Response

Passive Description

Once a hostile target inflicts crowd control on an ally (preferably Within 20 meters), the Ranger involuntarily comes to assist his ally. This Passive grants the Ranger increased movement speed, and attack speed while reducing the time an ally is being crowd controlled by 50%. Like most passives here, this passive has a region of influence, and any allies outside the region of influence (preferably 20 meters) will not receive the CC reduction time.

Cooldown time: 80s

Duration: Activates when an ally (preferably within 20 meters) is CC’ed and lasts for 10s. Works for any other allies that get CC’ed during that time and in that region of influence.


Tank Passive: Soul Bound

Passive Description

The Tank has two passives. A main passive and a secondary passive. His main passive is named “impending Sacrifice”, and the second one is named “ Soul Bound”. Both passives work tangibly to enable the tank to souk up damage, and be a better crowd controller.

“Impending Sacrifice”

Impending sacrifice is granted to all Tanks by the gods due to how ready they are to sacrifice their lives to protect their allies. A noble act. It grants the tank decreased time spent in CC effects, increased armor, and increased health. Nothing special, until you couple that with “Soul Bound”.

“Soul Bound”

How it Works?

  • Firstly, any party member that is within a certain distance from the tank can be soul bounded to the tank. All party members, on the UI, will have a green icon displayed above their names. (only the tank player can see this) This is an indicator that you, as the tank, can bound your soul to that player.
  •  Secondly, there can only be one soul bounding at a time. However, unlike other passives, there is no cooldown and the duration is infinite as long as the bounded players remain within a certain area of effect to each other. The Tank can choose to bound with a player, or remove the bound at any time. No cooldown, infinite duration.
  • The player isn’t asked if they would like to accept a soul bound. It just happens :D
  • Thirdly, the soul bounding amplifies the bonuses granted by the main passive Impending Sacrifice depending on who the tank bounds his soul to.
  •  For example, impending sacrifice will grant farther decreased time spent in CC effect if the tank is bounded with a Ranger. As we mentioned above, the Ranger has Involuntary Response, and can reduce the time an ally is spent in CC. Well, if a Tank is bound with a Ranger, then they could have a great CC reduction. Likewise, if a Tank is soul bound with a cleric, then Impending sacrifice might grant more health, and so on. There are limitless possibilities with this combination, and it’s quite interesting how it can impact the tank Meta.


Fighter Passive: Blood Imposter

Blood Imposter’s effect On Real Players

Once the Fighter assists in a kill or kills a target themselves, they can gather blood bags (Bags containing blood since Blood is confirmed to be part of the game). A kill grants two blood bags, while an assist grants one blood bag. These blood bags accumulate and can stack up to five bags. 

  1.  Blood bags can be used to activate blood Imposter. A maximum stack of blood bags (5) will automatically activate blood Imposter.
  2. The five bags of blood will deplete since they’re being consumed by the Fighter over a period of time.
  3. During that period, the Fighter will have the effect of blood Imposter activated.


How it works?

Blood Imposter grants abilities depending on who the fighter has, and assisted to kill. So,

      o A mage’s blood grants a Magic/Physical Shield, absorbing both kinds of damage.

      o  A Rogue’s blood grants invisibility.

      o  A Tank’s blood grants the ability to soul bound, which activates Impending sacrifices ability (Tank passive) for the period the Blood Imposter is active.

      o  A Cleric’s blood will grant regeneration effect that heals a certain amount of hp (preferably 15%) over the period blood imposter is activated.

      o  A Summoner’s blood will grant the passive of the monster they had once they died.

      o  A Ranger’s blood will grant movement speed increase, and extended range on charge.

      o  A Fighter’s blood will take double the time to deplete as other people’s blood. Therefore, extending the period of which blood imposter is active. It also gives nothing.


  • - Note that if the Fighter kills two players with the same main archetypes, the Fighter doesn’t obtain anything. No extra duration, or increased effects. Just waste of a stack. It can help to activate blood imposter though since the extra duplicate stack counts as a blood bag.
  • -The right combination of kills is necessary to maximize the benefit of this passive. It encourages thinking as to who the Fighter should kill during a massive fight.


Blood imposter’s effect on monsters.

If the Fighter kills five monsters, then they gain one blood bag. Once the fighter kills 20 monsters, then the Fighter should have blood imposter activated. However, this blood imposter is a PVE blood imposter, and plainly increases the Fighter’s stats. For example, it could give the Fighter increased physical attack, or it could increase their health etc…

      o Keep in mind, a mixture of monsters and players can also activate blood imposter. So, a Fighter could kill a mage, a cleric, and five monsters. The resulting blood imposter should grant a Magic/Physical Shield, absorbing both kinds of damage. Additionally, it should grant regeneration effect, and all PVE blood imposter effects.

      o Fighters should think before they attack since the right mix of stats and effects is necessary to be a monster.

 don’t want to come up anything for a Bard since I have never played a bard in any game. Perhaps you can innovate.

All in all, this was a suggestion I would like the developers to consider. As we all know, Ashes is in early development right now, and I really desire to have an impact on its development. These passives work well and can force people to be team players. However, they’re by no means perfect. I wish my fellow gamers choose to contribute to making this something really good, and something we would all want to be added to the game ASAP. I will see you in the comment section. Keep it civil, and constructive. 


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    This may have been better suited for the Ashes Design forum rather than General. 
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    How did you post that long post in the first place? When I tried to write a much smaller text about crafting I continuously got "post appears after approved" error.
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    MADE said:
    How did you post that long post in the first place? When I tried to write a much smaller text about crafting I continuously got "post appears after approved" error.

     I have no clue :D
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    man that's o lot of work but i like it
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    Very detailed design there. Far too detailed for me to form a reasonable response outside of playtesting. I hope Intrepid takes a look into what you are suggesting :)
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    Incredible amount of thought put into this. I like your ideas a lot but as someone mentioned, I'd need to see the execution and its power over the game. This should be a great read for the Devs :)
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Hot dang you put a lot of time into that.  Great ideas  :)

    Ideally, it'd be nice if you could make a separate thread for each class's passives in the Design section and maybe link them all back to a master thread that briefly explains how each class connects to each other and how the overall philosophy is supposed to work. 

    I like how you're pushing for synergy between classes with your passive system. In a similar vein, I'd like to see synergy for many active skills too and maybe even combos between multiple players like in GW2. I'll make a separate thread for that topic though in case it doesn't already exist.
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    I started reading, nodding my head like, "ok, I can agree with that." scrolling, scrolling... omg still scrolling!  Time to make my phone read it to me...
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    Oh i had no idea this was posted here to ... now i feel dumb >.<
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    This is incredible idea.
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     OK took my phone 30 minutes to read it to me, but I stayed with you. 

     It was a whole lot to process. I didn't see anything majorly fatal in the idea. The only things I made notes of what my phone read was minor balance things, like "why does the rogue go to half strength when they steal the passive?"   With damage boosts, I think people would always have mages, but that can be fixed with balance.

     Want to turn it into a card game for the forums? :)  i'll program, you do the mechanics. :)
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    tugowar said:
     OK took my phone 30 minutes to read it to me, but I stayed with you. 

     It was a whole lot to process. I didn't see anything majorly fatal in the idea. The only things I made notes of what my phone read was minor balance things, like "why does the rogue go to half strength when they steal the passive?"   With damage boosts, I think people would always have mages, but that can be fixed with balance.

     Want to turn it into a card game for the forums? :)  i'll program, you do the mechanics. :)
    Yeah. The reason the rogue gets half the stats a passive gives is to limit it even farther. It doesn't have to be exactly half. It can be 70 percentage and so on. Point is that giving the full ability of passives such as "Impending sacrifice" tanks passive, will just make them really tanky while at the same time doing the insane damage rogues are famous for.  Also, I am interested :)
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    This seems like a really interesting idea.  Of course as others have mentioned would require fine tune balancing to get it right.  It's a lot to digest I may revisit.

    To make this work the benefit of adding each different class would need to be significant to encourage diversity, but not so large that class stacking (cause you can't find a ranger and a mage) isn't crippling to your group.  Tough to get right. 
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Sidiston said:
    This seems like a really interesting idea.  Of course as others have mentioned would require fine tune balancing to get it right.  It's a lot to digest I may revisit.

    To make this work the benefit of adding each different class would need to be significant to encourage diversity, but not so large that class stacking (cause you can't find a ranger and a mage) isn't crippling to your group.  Tough to get right. 
    To be honest, that's something i have not consdered while making this. Luckily some passives can function on their own, and lack of them doesn't really cripple a team. For example, the summoner's passive is to tame most humanoid creatures in the world and summon them to obtain their passive. Well, this works alone, and lack of it won't be crashing to any team.  A Ranger's passive can still works best as solo since it gives increased stats. Same thing, lack of it won't cripple a team. I wouldn't say the same for other passives such as Cleric's passive, Tanks, or a MAge. But then again, what team goes into a raid and doesn't have a Cleric, or what team attempts to counter a node siege without a tank/mage etc..But, there is still a huge problem. I haven't designed this to take that into consideration. Good input :P
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Good God.  :o

    Editing: Now I read all of them. And I love it. This is really really good. Eventhough passives maynot be that way, there should be something like this. 
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