Rejoice!! no more grey, junk, inventory clutter, bag filler.

ArchivedUser

First problem I see with this idea is that if we don't have filler items, there might be hours and hours before we see any items at all. And they have to keep people interested in getting items too. I'm sure though, that they can somehow balance this out. Neat idea overall, had not thought of this myself.

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

Yep. Another long post about stuff that Ashes isn't planning to do anyways.

Shhhhh.....if you reveal the man behind the curtain, they won't have stuff to keep them enraged and engaged for the next year till they get some actual game to bash on.

ArchivedUser

Whocando said:

Killing humanoids drops currency but beast don't..so we need junk filler, NO.

Eh, I'm not following your logic. Who cares if they don't drop "realistic" stuff every single time. It's not as if the game is based in reality from the start. It's fantasyland. In fantasyland, a wombat can drop a broken kettle pot if it wants to. That doesn't mean YOU HAVE to loot it and waste your precious time. No one is forcing you to loot the grey junk. You could just leave it to rot. I suppose, that is too much of an inconvenience though. Best to whine and complain about having it there in the first place. 

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

Dygz said:

Yep. Another long post about stuff that Ashes isn't planning to do anyways.

Shhhhh.....if you reveal the man behind the curtain, they won't have stuff to keep them enraged and engaged for the next year till they get some actual game to bash on.

lol Well, if Dygz didn't do it, you certainly did, with this post.  Also...

...I just took a good look at your signature, after usually just glossing over it...

Smh, @UnknownSystemError. smh... lol

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

Should be easy enough to have it always useful for building camps and villages.

This. I like this idea. 

My opinion on this goes both ways. I do hate when my bags get full of useless junk as well and I end up having to delete/destroy/drop stuff to make room for better if Im far from a vendor. On the other hand, all of us at some point have flat out destroyed or vendor'ed max level kinda-uber stuff because we already had the ultra-uber version of it. It was awesome to us at one point but then became useless when we get better stuff and its BOP. Granted this is a little off the main point but just stating, we all have different definitions of useless and useful. 

ArchivedUser

This post is a perfect example of how desperate we all are for a great MMO. I mean, we are talking about grey trash items...  don't get me wrong I am in the same boat as us all but it just made me chuckle to think we are actually having good open dialogue...on grey items. 

PS  I actually agree and would prefer these not to be in the game. 

ArchivedUser

Kinork said:

Whocando said:

Killing humanoids drops currency but beast don't..so we need junk filler, NO.

Eh, I'm not following your logic. Who cares if they don't drop "realistic" stuff every single time. It's not as if the game is based in reality from the start. It's fantasyland. In fantasyland, a wombat can drop a broken kettle pot if it wants to. That doesn't mean YOU HAVE to loot it and waste your precious time. No one is forcing you to loot the grey junk. You could just leave it to rot. I suppose, that is too much of an inconvenience though. Best to whine and complain about having it there in the first place. 

You seem to be following my logic just fine.

In fantasy land the wombat can drop a broken kettle. If the developers want to invest time and resources on coding the broken kettle in the first place, why bother making it redundant?

Secondly let me or my friends either repair the broken kettle or salvage it into its component value...is that so hard to logically comprehend?

why bother making a utterly useless item in the first place only to be avoided and or inadvertently collected to clutter an otherwise functional inventory system.

I don't believe i have whined or complained any more or less if at all than you have in response.

Whether it is mandatory or avoid  to loot items is irrelevant.

ArchivedUser

Whocando said:

Kinork said:

Whocando said:

Killing humanoids drops currency but beast don't..so we need junk filler, NO.

Eh, I'm not following your logic. Who cares if they don't drop "realistic" stuff every single time. It's not as if the game is based in reality from the start. It's fantasyland. In fantasyland, a wombat can drop a broken kettle pot if it wants to. That doesn't mean YOU HAVE to loot it and waste your precious time. No one is forcing you to loot the grey junk. You could just leave it to rot. I suppose, that is too much of an inconvenience though. Best to whine and complain about having it there in the first place. 

You seem to be following my logic just fine.

In fantasy land the wombat can drop a broken kettle. If the developers want to invest time and resources on coding the broken kettle in the first place, why bother making it redundant?

Secondly let me or my friends either repair the broken kettle or salvage it into its component value...is that so hard to logically comprehend?

why bother making a utterly useless item in the first place only to be avoided and or inadvertently collected to clutter an otherwise functional inventory system.

I don't believe i have whined or complained any more or less if at all than you have in response.

Whether it is mandatory or avoid  to loot items is irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant, and it is indeed whining. Rambling about being inconvenienced, irritated, wasting time etc  is whining. I will spell out why it is relevant since it is apparently hard to logically comprehend. It is only a waste of time, and an inconvience having your bags full if they FORCE you to loot the items. Very rarely have I ever seen in a game where they literally forced you to take items no matter what. If you can't handle leaving items to rot due to OCD or something, that's a different story. 
I don't disagree that it would be better to do something with the items. However if you actually paid attention to the live streams, and what the devs say: your post is for nought. As they already said they wasn't planning on implementing such things. Again, I suppose it's easier to whine, than to leave the items or to listen to what the devs have planned. 

ArchivedUser

Let's all take a deep breath. Relax. Groosfaba. Groosfaba...
No need to start taking jabs at each other or be condescending. Jesus, the game isn't even released and people are already getting testy over junk items. Smh

ArchivedUser

@Kinork
Settle down pony you're about to burst an aneurysm  by sheer contradiction.

I live in a different time zone so I do not get live* streams.

I am aware the developers have addressed this matter by DESIGN*not by forced time inconvenience.

is the whole community aware.? should it be re-titled (Rejoice no more junk items)

I was primarily pointing out the cause not the effect.

If my post was for nought ergo junk, then why are you wasting your own time responding by force.

I am encouraged that Intrepid Studios will not perpetuate a JUNK system.

And you are welcome not to perpetuate a JUNK general discussion thread on a forum in regards to JUNK and its relevant rambling irrelevancy.

ArchivedUser

ArchivedUser

Rejoice, No More Junk would be a better title. Yeah.

ArchivedUser

@Dygz Title amendment made. 

ArchivedUser

WhyMe2000f said:

We need the useless junk to feel how lucky we are getting a useful item haha XD

Balance my friend....Balance 

Plus, every copper helps.......

ArchivedUser

I'd like to see gray junk be worth more to specific npcs. A blacksmith might not have a lot of use for bear guts so he might only offer 1silver each but a shaman who uses it in his spells might pay 5 silver each...........now if that shaman happens to live in a node without bears to supply guts he might even be willing to pay 10+ silver each

ArchivedUser

Whocando said:

@MADE I am aware of WoW design and in my opinion its stupid lazy design metric to promote RNG grinding. hence why I made this OP because i feel it's yet another fall back crutch mechanic that needs to be just as obsolescent as its premise.

I would conclude that the 'junk' was not 'clever' but an easy solution to a poor design philosophy.

Understand the Junk and waste is a very modern concept as a byproduct of western culture associated with the advent of plastics for the most part.

Killing humanoids drops currency but beast don't..so we need junk filler, NO.

Beasts drop all sort of useful items and resources that can facilitate industry.

meats, bones, blood, skins, hides, furs, teeth, feathers, scales. sinews, tendons...the list goes on. None of these items are junk or have to be junk....

what about the professions associated too, skinning, butchery,tanning, cooking, weaving, leather working, alchemy, apothecary, etc.

vanquishing a humanoid still does not imply a requirement for a % of items as useless* vendor trash.

If an item is broken* or damaged* let someone have the ability to salvage, scrap or even repair it.

basic loot should not result in junk but basic resources and common constituents with a use.

Even in a profession has a failed attempt the outcome should not result in junk but a proportional loss of ingredients or detriment of quality/duration to the point where the failure itself is the liquidation of assets.

It is far better to promote the economy and player to player interactions, then inflate/compensate global currency by items of inconvenience sold to specific NPC's for the purpose of inconvenience.

Nope, you don't understand shit, but still talk loots.
You speak about RNG, but what RNG?
In wow, grey item drops basically at a 100% rate from those mentioned NPCs like from beasts, so where is the RNG?

The rest of your post is nonsense. I can't even understand what do you think. Do you think those grey quality items called "garbage" "junk" "thrash" etc. and have a icon of a garbage bag? or what?
In wow(and in most other games) those are called bones, meat, organs etc. items that aren't valuable, but still exist, so what was your meaning again?

If you would know at least a little from the thing that you speak of, you would know that those junk item's aren't replace any loot, it's just addition to the normal loot.
In wow, a npc drops some shattered bones as a grey item, but also may drops meat, and can be skinned for leather, so having a grey quality item doesn't prevent the other.

You speak about "there are no junk", but there is. Just look at that example, if the bone is shattered into pieces, then you can't build anything out form it, so it will be junk for you...

ArchivedUser

Seems to me that Artisans should be able to put shattered bones to good use.
Also could be components for Necromancy.

ArchivedUser

Whocando said:

But it's not another mans treasure it's NPC  vendor at best and an inconvenient waste of space the rest of the time.

I don't appreciate 'luck' when the reward is compromised by random useless superficiality.

presuming a necessity in the unnecessary is flawed perception.

And presuming that all share your views is also a flawed perception. To you it's "NPC vendor at best and an inconvenient waste of space the rest of the time." To others? Not so much. For me, VT has a long and lovely history in games; I see it as "pennies are pennies" (in other words, it sells). Additionally, there are several games which use VT as a vehicle for some forms of lore. I'm all for keepin' it.

ArchivedUser

MADE said:

Whocando said:

@MADE I am aware of WoW design and in my opinion its stupid lazy design metric to promote RNG grinding. hence why I made this OP because i feel it's yet another fall back crutch mechanic that needs to be just as obsolescent as its premise.

I would conclude that the 'junk' was not 'clever' but an easy solution to a poor design philosophy.

Understand the Junk and waste is a very modern concept as a byproduct of western culture associated with the advent of plastics for the most part.

Killing humanoids drops currency but beast don't..so we need junk filler, NO.

Beasts drop all sort of useful items and resources that can facilitate industry.

meats, bones, blood, skins, hides, furs, teeth, feathers, scales. sinews, tendons...the list goes on. None of these items are junk or have to be junk....

what about the professions associated too, skinning, butchery,tanning, cooking, weaving, leather working, alchemy, apothecary, etc.

vanquishing a humanoid still does not imply a requirement for a % of items as useless* vendor trash.

If an item is broken* or damaged* let someone have the ability to salvage, scrap or even repair it.

basic loot should not result in junk but basic resources and common constituents with a use.

Even in a profession has a failed attempt the outcome should not result in junk but a proportional loss of ingredients or detriment of quality/duration to the point where the failure itself is the liquidation of assets.

It is far better to promote the economy and player to player interactions, then inflate/compensate global currency by items of inconvenience sold to specific NPC's for the purpose of inconvenience.

'Nope, you don't understand shit, but still talk loots'.


You speak about RNG, but what RNG?
In wow, grey item drops basically at a 100% rate from those mentioned NPCs like from beasts, so where is the RNG?


The rest of your post is nonsense. I can't even understand what do you think. Do you think those grey quality items called "garbage" "junk" "thrash" etc. and have a icon of a garbage bag? or what?
In wow(and in most other games) those are called bones, meat, organs etc. items that aren't valuable, but still exist, so what was your meaning again?

If you would know at least a little from the thing that you speak of, you would know that those junk item's aren't replace any loot, it's just addition to the normal loot'

In wow, a npc drops some shattered bones as a grey item, but also may drops meat, and can be skinned for leather, so having a grey quality item doesn't prevent the other.

You speak about "there are no junk", but there is. Just look at that example, if the bone is shattered into pieces, then you can't build anything out form it, so it will be junk for you...

I do understand shit, it's a byproduct of digestion and can be used as fertilizer.

As previously stated, I coherently described that junk system is partially  by design an [assistance/facilitator] to RNG not specifically RNG itself. eg; you have to kill 100 bears to get 1 bone but all you get are 99 worthless* bear arses. that could be coded as useful but they aren't. and all bears have  bones.....so why not just make the objective 100 bones.

'items that aren't valuable, but still exist, so what was your meaning again'<-DUH

why?
seriously why bother by design make a system of redundancy and inconvenience.


how about I find a player alchemist to take the shattered bones, who grinds them into, powder to make a potion of intellect which he can sell to you...

as opposed to inventory juggling and dropping grey items to the point where back tracking to the nearest NPC to dump a load and then return to what you enjoy doing.

Just because it's the current industry standard does not imply that it was good to begin with or could not be improved upon.

I am not really inclined to repeat my valid points and criticisms of perpetually bad design systems.

whether you interpret it as nonsense is of you own volition.

ArchivedUser

The point of grey items is that it makes no sense for a fish to drop gold coins. it instead drops fish fins and fish scales that you can vendor in exchange for gold. The basic gameplay is that you get gold from defeating monsters. Also it makes you go back to town to check the vendor, makes the towns feel more populated. These kinds of game systems are there to manipulate (sounds ominous) player behaviour in a way that is intended for how the world was designed.

ArchivedUser

Gokki said:

The point of grey items is that it makes no sense for a fish to drop gold coins. it instead drops fish fins and fish scales that you can vendor in exchange for gold. The basic gameplay is that you get gold from defeating monsters. Also it makes you go back to town to check the vendor, makes the towns feel more populated. These kinds of game systems are there to manipulate (sounds ominous) player behaviour in a way that is intended for how the world was designed.

Simply put, but well stated. Thankies!

ArchivedUser

Gokki said:

The point of grey items is that it makes no sense for a fish to drop gold coins. it instead drops fish fins and fish scales that you can vendor in exchange for gold. The basic gameplay is that you get gold from defeating monsters. Also it makes you go back to town to check the vendor, makes the towns feel more populated. These kinds of game systems are there to manipulate (sounds ominous) player behaviour in a way that is intended for how the world was designed.

To clarify,
Ashes or creation will not be adhering to the junk* system by design which was clarified to me and why I amended the Title of the OP.

Now.
Why do they have to be grey*? Would a town/hub  be more vibrant rather than populated if inventory items were not NPC specific interactions or lack thereof.

Generating currency does not increase value it merely leads to inflation.

There are better ways to deliver story and lore than attaching labels to vendor trash.

ArchivedUser

Whocando said:

Gokki said:

The point of grey items is that it makes no sense for a fish to drop gold coins. it instead drops fish fins and fish scales that you can vendor in exchange for gold. The basic gameplay is that you get gold from defeating monsters. Also it makes you go back to town to check the vendor, makes the towns feel more populated. These kinds of game systems are there to manipulate (sounds ominous) player behaviour in a way that is intended for how the world was designed.

To clarify,
Ashes or creation will not be adhering to the junk* system by design which was clarified to me and why I amended the Title of the OP.

Now.
Why do they have to be grey*? Would a town/hub  be more vibrant rather than populated if inventory items were not NPC specific interactions or lack thereof.

Generating currency does not increase value it merely leads to inflation.

There are better ways to deliver story and lore than attaching labels to vendor trash.

I can see both sides to the argument, and there is no clear "right", or "wrong", in this case.  Merely differing perspectives.

I don't think @Gokki was saying that grey items was a way for devs to manipulate the delivery of story, or lore.  I believe he was stating that it's possible that devs implemented "trash" items, as a way to engender/manipulate players into going into towns/cities to produce an appearance of vibrancy.  Imo.

ArchivedUser

No right or wrong, just better and worse.

ArchivedUser

Whocando said:

No right or wrong, just better and worse.

The true spirit of compromise, at it's finest!