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Confusion over labels for Class/Crafting/Etc

It's been mentioned that there's a lot of crossover in what "Class" means, with everything from "Tank" to "Artisan" being referred to as a part of the class.

I was thinking that it might be beneficial to come up with some labels that can be used, which can more properly expand on what's being discussed.

There, my ideas run short, so I thought, "Wow, we've got a great community, lots of smart people, so why not toss this out to them?"

In brief, here's what I'm thinking:

Class
Denotes the archetype of the character; Tank, for instance, is self-explanatory, but it's also recognized, commonly, as the "Class" of a character. Tank, Cleric, so on and so forth, would fall under class. This would include the class/class combos, which may also eventually develop their own names.

Profession
This will be the crafting portion, and when referring to the player doing it, that player would be referred to as a Professional. A professional may gather, may smelt/bind/etc, or may create items. But all people doing this, in their role of doing this, would be referred to as a Professional, and this avenue of their activities would be referred to as their profession.

Beyond that? I dunno. Is "Profession" the right word? Maybe, maybe not. But I leave you with this as I set out to unkink some peoples' necks & backs, and when I come home tonight, we'll see what all you wondermous people have come up with.

Then, with hope, we can maybe present something to the guys at IS, so that when they speak of these things, we know what they're talking about.

Comments

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    So for Ashes 

    Class is known as your ARCHETYPE - which is broken into two PRIMARY AND SECONDARY ARCHETYPE

    Profession is know as your ARTISIAN SKILL/CLASS

    :3 Just to confuse and make everything clear xD
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    Why do we have to have labels? lmao
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    My character will have no class, or style, whatsoever ;)
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Yeah. Of course, I think it would be nice to have terms defined for Ashes.
    And have them used consistently. Makes discussion easier.

    But, we can't seem to get the devs to use terms consistently, so it's difficult for us to comply.
    Especially when class is easier and quicker to type than archetype.

    Class/Archetype/Profession/Role
    Rank??

    It seems to me that the devs use Class for Artisans and then interchange Class with Archetype when referring to Adventurers.

    Profession seems to be the sub-class of Artisans: Cook, Blacksmith, etc.
    Gathering, Processing and Crafting seem to be Artisan roles.
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Dygz said:
    Why do we have to have labels? lmao
    Darn it you beat me too it!!!  @Dygz 1 Sintu 0.  :)

    Get out of my head!  Or am I in yours?  Not sure which is scarier.
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    See names and labels for things, rather than people, that's fine :)


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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
     :|   :p   <3
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    Artisan is a better word than Professional in my opinion.
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    Dygz said:
    Why do we have to have labels? lmao
    Without labels nobody will know what the **** you're talking about. :tongue:
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    Dygz said:
    Why do we have to have labels? lmao
    Because, dear @Dygz, people communicate in concepts that must be shared with others, and "labels" are the only way we have of communicating those concepts. If I say "look at the grey sky," you can then assume a few things; it's couldy, or stormy, or early-early morning. If I further say "look at those dark clouds in the grey sky," you know I'm talking about a storm. Without labels, communication becomes muddy.

    In this case, the request is to address the current muddy references made by the team at IS when they start talking about what we would label "Professions." While speaking of these things, they delve into "class" this and "experience" that, where it all kinda starts flowing from one thing to another. I'm asking for commonality of labels so that we can see the distinction between the two more clearly, and know what parameters exist in each role.

    I started this thread so we could hash things out to a point that we can go to @GMSteven & co and say "Hey, this makes sense to us; can you explain things to us in this light?"

    Artisan is a better word than Professional in my opinion.
    The reason I didn't choose Artisan, rather than Professional, is because my understanding of the Crafting is that Artisan is a level to be achieved. If I begin at the Basic BS level, I aspire to achieve Artisan level, but I'm still a Professional engaged in the act of Blacksmithing. And I'm using Professional arbitrarily here, until we can maybe come to some form of agreement on what makes sense.
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    That was a rhetorical question. :p
    You know I love me some labels!
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    Dygz said:
    That was a rhetorical question. :p
    You know I love me some labels!
    Duh. I wondered what prompted it, lol! Ok, I'm a goof!
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    No worries.   :)

    I think the label Artisan corresponds with the label Adventurer:
    Blacksmith is a subset of Artisan as Predator is a subset of Adventurer.
    I've never heard the devs use Artisan as a level or rank. 
    The devs refer to the Artisan class; not the Artisan level.

    Seems like ranks/levels would be more like Apprentice/Journeyman/Master.
    But, I don't think I've ever heard the devs refer to names for ranks/levels.

    We will see.
    I don't really care what labels we actually use as long as we can get the devs to use terms consistently.
    <3
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    Dygz said:
    No worries.   :)

    I think the label Artisan corresponds with the label Adventurer:
    Blacksmith is a subset of Artisan as Predator is a subset of Adventurer.
    I've never heard the devs use Artisan as a level or rank. 
    The devs refer to the Artisan class; not the Artisan level.

    Seems like ranks/levels would be more like Apprentice/Journeyman/Master.
    But, I don't think I've ever heard the devs refer to names for ranks/levels.

    We will see.
    I don't really care what labels we actually use as long as we can get the devs to use terms consistently.
    <3
    Ok, so -- when they talk about Artisan, do they talk only about Blacksmith? Or is there a corollary that we know of, where they talk about a Leathermaker, say, and that subset/rank/level?

    And yeah, that's my goal, that's what I'm trying to do. If we can come up with an offering, maybe that'll help them?
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    The devs usually talk about the Artisan class.
    Then branch down to Gathering, Processing and Crafting
    Then Crafting would branch down to Blacksmith, Tailor, etc.

    I'm guessing Tanner would be the subset of Processing and Leatherworker would be the subset of Crafting?

    I'm not really sure what falls under Processing.
    Seems like Cook could fall under Processing or Crafting.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I don't recall the devs using any labels to refer to ranks/levels of what I would call the profession (Blacksmith, Leatherworker, etc).
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    I agree with @Dygz and would suggest that parts of cooking could be split between processing and crafting. Eg processing wheat into flour and baking (crafting) bread from the flour.

    I also think that the separation of artisan classes is to prevent a single character from being able to gather, process and craft resources, hence making the economy more interdependent.
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    Right. But I expect the profession Cook/Cooking to fall under either Processing or Crafting... not both - but, could fit under either.

    But, if Cook is under Crafting, I dunno what label would be used for the associated Processing... Miller? Butcher? 
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    Dygz said:
    Right. But I expect the profession Cook/Cooking to fall under either Processing or Crafting... not both - but, could fit under either.

    But, if Cook is under Crafting, I dunno what label would be used for the associated Processing... Miller? Butcher? 
    I was thinking exactly the same for processing: Miller, butcher, fishmonger, grocer. Compared to baker and cook, which might fall in crafting. Some would be harder to split though. Where would you put brewer?
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    I keep thinking Brewer should be Crafting.
    But, again get stuck with what would be the Processing associate(s).

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    Dygz said:
    I keep thinking Brewer should be Crafting.
    But, again get stuck with what would be the Processing associate(s).
    Yes, I do recall mention of an artisan class/subclass structure. Having a skill tree associated with each artisan class would seem manageable to me. Are you thinking that artisan subclass might be an augment system too, like with character classes? Eg: Cook/alchemist would let you craft "magical" food?
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    lexmax said:
    My character will have no class, or style, whatsoever ;)
    Soooo . . . Nude villager?
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    lexmax said:
    Dygz said:
    I keep thinking Brewer should be Crafting.
    But, again get stuck with what would be the Processing associate(s).
    Yes, I do recall mention of an artisan class/subclass structure. Having a skill tree associated with each artisan class would seem manageable to me. Are you thinking that artisan subclass might be an augment system too, like with character classes? Eg: Cook/alchemist would let you craft "magical" food?
    Artisans have augments but I don't think it's the  exact same mechanics as Adventurers.
    If I'm being super-precise about terms, technically Adventurer archetypes dual-class while Artisans sub-class. I think.

    By associate, I just mean the processing task that's associated with Brewing - if Brewing falls under Crafting.
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    Dygz said:
    The devs usually talk about the Artisan class.
    Then branch down to Gathering, Processing and Crafting
    Then Crafting would branch down to Blacksmith, Tailor, etc.

    I'm guessing Tanner would be the subset of Processing and Leatherworker would be the subset of Crafting?

    I'm not really sure what falls under Processing.
    Seems like Cook could fall under Processing or Crafting.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I don't recall the devs using any labels to refer to ranks/levels of what I would call the profession (Blacksmith, Leatherworker, etc).
    And that's what I'm trying to ask for; clarification. Speaking of Artisans as a class dilutes the understanding, as we look at Tank/Cleric/Etc as classes.

    I'm thinking, link all the "gathering/creating" as a Profession so that whether you're a BS or a LW or a gatherer, you work from Basic -> Artisan, as I believe (it seems to me, anyway) that Artisan is the top tier of the progression for the crafting/gathering professions. 

    That's the place I'm starting from, anyway.
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Well, Tank/Cleric/etc are supposed to be "archetypes".

    To me, Gathering/Processing/Crafting are roles.
    Blacksmith/Leatherworker/Cook are professions.
    I consider Master to be the the top rank of a profession.
    And I would probably go Apprentice up through Master, but...

    I have no clue what the devs will actually do regarding ranks.
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Gathering/gatherer is getting the raw materials. Nothing gets processed

    Crafting  making an end product that can be used by anyone,

    Processing anything that takes a raw material and makes it something else that is not an end product to be used by anyone
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    Haha. Yes. I think everyone already agreed on that much. :p
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