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Will This be Another Themepark MMO?

I have several questions that will determine whether or not Ashes of Creation will be another tasteless virtual world.

1. Will players lose exp upon dying? Will players lose items?

2. Will encounters be locked? For example, if I attack a mob, will players be able to steal the kill (with its exp and loot)?

3. Will there be instanced dungeons? If so, how many? Will every dungeon be instanced?

4. Will players be able to hit level cap in a relatively small amount of time?

5. Are there factions? Answer: no, according to the FAQ

6. Will monsters be on an aggro leash? And when they go outside of it, they turn invulnerable and run back to camp--or something along those lines.

7. Is training monsters possible?

8. Will end-game be the most important part of the game?

See, the modern-day MMORPG typically follows the formula: weak penalty (or no penalty) for dying, instanced dungeons, no or weak faction system, monsters on an aggro leash, impossible to kill steal, impossible to train monsters, end-game is the most important part of the game, and finally, easy to hit level cap. And this is why the genre is stale. A MMORPG that follows most or all of the aforementioned formula is doomed to being a boring themepark MMORPG.

Currently, I only see one MMORPG in development that doesn't follow the aforementioned formula and it's called Pantheon: Rise of The Fallen. Let me know if this game is one as well (or if you know of any others).

Comments

  • Going on memory so hopefully this helps. Remember this is pre alpha so information is pretty scarce on specifics. 

    1.)  So far we know that there will be a penalty for death but it will not allow you to lose a level. Nothing more specific was given I believe. 
    2.)Undecided 
    3.)There will be some instance dungeons but nothing on how many. 
    4.)I believe the time estimated was 6 weeks that they are shooting for. But someone may have a better memory then me on this one. Might be Level 50 but undecided right now. 
    5.)You answered. 
    6.)Don't know
    7.)Don't know
    8.)End game is a bad word for the developers and they try not to use it. They are aiming for not just vertical but horizontal progression. 

    Hope pe this helps get you started on your answers. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Thank you for the response.

    Unfortunately, I've learned from my experience following numerous developing MMORPGs that developers are usually weak on any details with respect to the fundamentals of the game, which is strange when you think about it. At this stage they should have (and should provide) the answers to these questions, because they're foundational. If they don't know these fundamental questions, then they don't have a game.

    They don't know (or won't share) the fundamentals, but they have shared with us their gimmick for the game (nodes). Isn't that weird? You'd think the opposite would be true. The gimmick sounds interesting, don't get me wrong, but the fundamentals are more important. In the past, I've been drawn to a game's gimmick, only to find out later that the fundamentals were garbage. I'd be really surprised if this game were any different. My prediction is that later on we'll find out the answers to these questions and they'll fall under the typical formula for the modern-day MMORPG.

    I hate to bring up Pantheon again, but on the dev's website, they have an in-depth FAQ that lays out the fundamentals of the game.
  • Sintu said:
    Going on memory so hopefully this helps. Remember this is pre alpha so information is pretty scarce on specifics. 

    1.)  So far we know that there will be a penalty for death but it will not allow you to lose a level. Nothing more specific was given I believe. 
    2.)Undecided 
    3.)There will be some instance dungeons but nothing on how many. 
    4.)I believe the time estimated was 6 weeks that they are shooting for. But someone may have a better memory then me on this one. Might be Level 50 but undecided right now. 
    5.)You answered. 
    6.)Don't know
    7.)Don't know
    8.)End game is a bad word for the developers and they try not to use it. They are aiming for not just vertical but horizontal progression. 
    @Sintu's awesome answer says it all!
  • Gestas said:
    They don't know (or won't share) the fundamentals, but they have shared with us their gimmick for the game (nodes). Isn't that weird? You'd think the opposite would be true. The gimmick sounds interesting, don't get me wrong, but the fundamentals are more important.
    They have shared a great deal of information on how the node system works. Here is a summary of info collected about nodes and node sieges:

    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/34405/information-nodes-and-sieges

    Intrepid have been very open about their plans, so if you can't find what you are looking for in the many videos they have released, feel free to ask any specific questions you might have :) 
  • i suggest going and watching some of the streams and visiting the discord, they have talked about tons and tons of the core mechanics of the game.  from what i see about all of your inquiries have been answered or discussed in one form or another already, most of them many many months ago.  

    as far as pantheon, it's going to be eq1 with a new skin and a few scattered updates for technology advances.  stand still turret mmo, stuff like they made back in late 90s early 2000s, so hate to burst your bubble, nothing new there, just revisiting the old. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    i suggest going and watching some of the streams and visiting the discord, they have talked about tons and tons of the core mechanics of the game.  from what i see about all of your inquiries have been answered or discussed in one form or another already, most of them many many months ago.  

    as far as pantheon, it's going to be eq1 with a new skin and a few scattered updates for technology advances.  stand still turret mmo, stuff like they made back in late 90s early 2000s, so hate to burst your bubble, nothing new there, just revisiting the old. 

    I’ve looked at a few streams for Pantheon and it does resemble EQ in some ways, but so does every MMORPG. EQ was the pioneer of 3D MMORPGs. So, I’m not exactly sure what you mean when you say the game looks like EQ with a new skin. As for it being a stand-still turret MMO: I’m not sure what you mean by that either. I’ve seen streams of the gameplay and it appears to be dynamic enough. Plus, the dev’s have said that they’re focusing on the fundamentals of the combat system before they start adding in more complexity, which is a wise move.

    And you’re not bursting my bubble when you say some of the game’s core mechanics are similar to EQ, since many of the core mechanics in EQ are superior to what you find in many of today’s MMORPGs. I don’t care if something is old or new, just as long as it works and it’s fun. Mathematics and logic are very old and yet, we still use them today (some of us anyway).

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    @Gestas
    Like @lexmax, and @Wizard_Beard, have  suggested, you can find a plethora of information about the game from Discord, Reddit, and from other forums on this site, such as Announce,ments& Headlines, Ashes of Creation Design, Ashes of Creation Lore, and Ashes of Creation Systems and Mechanics.  

    Also, I would like to answer some of your questions, though the information is subject to change, as the game is still in pre alpha.

    1.  Upon death, players will accrue "negative xp".  Though there is no de-leveling, normal xp cannot be gained, until negative xp has been worked off.  In cases of PvP death, players can be looted, but only materials.  There is also a "corruption" mechanic, as a deterrent to ganking.

    2.  Undefined.

    3.  Devs have stated that all dungeons will be open world.  

    4.  That's a relative question, as it depends on how much time one invests in the game.  The dev's have given a soft cap of lvl 50.  Though, they're still deciding.  Also, players will be able to level a variety of classes, from Adventuring, to Artisan.  

    5.  The only factions in the game, will be the ones that the players themselves create.  Ashes of Creation will have no "out of the box" pre-prescribed factions.

    6.  Undefined.

    7.  Devs have said that training monsters is possible.  How this possibly relates to question 6, I do not know.

    8.  Devs have stated many times, that Ashes has no "end game".  There will be content of varying levels, from low to high, but there is no "ride the rails to the end" themepark objective, in Ashes.  

    Steven has described Ashes as a "themebox" game, with elements of themepark, and sandbox games, all mushed together, with a smidgen of "no pay to win" added in.  Granted, while the devs have been open, and answered a lot of questions, there is still much to learn going forward.  With a game in pre-alpha, and about 2 yrs away from official launch, that's to be expected.  

    I hope this answers some of your questions.  Good luck.
  • We need the search function fixed sooo bad
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    @freespiryt All dungeons won't be open world only. They'll have a mix between open world and instanced.

    From the google doc:

    Will there be instanced dungeons and raid content that will require a set of amount of players to follow mechanics properly to defeat, or will it be more open world where you can go in with any amount of players?

    • Both.  As it stands now, many dungeons in the world have an open world component, with several instance access points that parties can participate in.  We want to maintain the open world feel while being able to capitalize on the benefits of instanced mechanics.  We will go into more depth in a blog soon.
  • @freespiryt All dungeons won't be open world only. They'll have a mix between open world and instanced.

    From the google doc:

    Will there be instanced dungeons and raid content that will require a set of amount of players to follow mechanics properly to defeat, or will it be more open world where you can go in with any amount of players?

    • Both.  As it stands now, many dungeons in the world have an open world component, with several instance access points that parties can participate in.  We want to maintain the open world feel while being able to capitalize on the benefits of instanced mechanics.  We will go into more depth in a blog soon.
    A good blend is always the best approach in my opinion.  A complete open world with a theme park built in.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    1. Will players lose exp upon dying? Will players lose items?

    -Yes, you will lose experience upon death. If you attack a non combatant you will gain corruption stacks which will effects your stats. You will also lose some items in your inventory if you get looted.

    2. Will encounters be locked? For example, if I attack a mob, will players be able to steal the kill (with its exp and loot)?

    -I do not think we have been given this information yet. It would be a good question for the live streams.

    3. Will there be instanced dungeons? If so, how many? Will every dungeon be instanced?

    -Yes there will be instanced dungeons and there will be open dungeons. The devs said they want dungeons that are important to the story to be instanced and I agree with them.

    4. Will players be able to hit level cap in a relatively small amount of time?

    -I think they said it would take about 3 months of solid play to reach level cap, but its pre alpha. Anything can change.

    5. Are there factions? Answer: no, according to the FAQ

    -You are correct. The devs do not want factions. They want meaningful conflict. We will fight over resources, land, loot, and for whatever other reasons we choose.

    6. Will monsters be on an aggro leash? And when they go outside of it, they turn invulnerable and run back to camp--or something along those lines.

    -I do not think they have answered this question yet. This would be another good question to ask in the live stream. I would think it would be dependent on the type of mob though. Like a really tough mob would have the guts to chase you further than a weak mob.

    7. Is training monsters possible?

    -I think they said there will be certain mobs that can be tamed and used as pets in the animal husbandry crafting tree.

    8. Will end-game be the most important part of the game?

    -No, the devs do not want to have an end game. They will have multiple ways to progress your character and the world will always be changing. That dungeon you ran a week ago may not be there any more, or it may have moved. The mobs that dropped that rare crafting item may be gone the next time you go back there. Your node may be attacked and degraded to a lower tier so you node's ZOI decreases. There will always be stuff to do and new things to explore.

    It is not a themepark MMO. In a themepark MMO everything is static. You go down a linear progression path and quest your way to cap. That NPC you talked to at level 10 a few months ago will always be there. In AoC the world is ever changing. As you advance your node your Node's ZOI grows as well. New NPC move into the node and those NPC's will give you new quests. The ZOI growth will spawn new dungeons, new world bosses, new crafting nodes and all that fun stuff.
  • Ashes is a themebox.

    I don't think Ashes is going to have any kind of tagging that prevents "kill stealing".
    Everyone is working towards progressing and protecting the nodes.
    Just as we won't be able to claim a mine in the open world, we won't be able to claim mobs in the open world.

    When a spider demon attacks the town/city, players nearby will work to defend their home. The concept of "stealing the kill" doesn't fit well in this game design. Expect everyone who participates in the battle to gain xp.
    Rather than the first person who hits a mob locks it from other potential attackers.
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