This is a Toxic Community?

ArchivedUser

There is this idea that once an MMO goes into Open beta, the community of that MMO go from completely friendly to less friendly. Let me explain the thought process. Community members, prior to launch, have no reason to hate each other due to the lack of competition. It is competition that drives hatred towards others. Competition for Honor,  Resources, goods and the like.  Right now, the AoC community is in that state where no one Is toxic towards others because there is no reason to (no competition).

 However, this will not, according to the idea, be the case few weeks after launch and that is due to tensions rising among all the opposing coalitions. That is why toxic trash talks will be unavoidable once the game gives people a good motive. What's more is AoC will give people a reason to be toxic with it is Node sieges and open world PvP systems. When an alliance  destroys that node you sunk hundreds of hours developing , you will turn to a keyboard Zerk and insult ( be toxic) to them. When you get ganked by a whole guild of gankers, you will rage and be toxic.  Of course there will be those who will not, but they will still feel hatred towards the enemy.  

So, how toxic do you think this community will get once the game is officially released (OBT)?

ArchivedUser

too true,  people at the moment don't have anything to complain about.  Since they are not balancing 1v1 I expect the level of whinging/toxicity  to reflect the forums on other mmo's.  Once it goes into open beta. 

ArchivedUser

Well since persistent Alpha stage 1 will have a max population of around 5k people and the beta will get a much larger jump, you are going to see lots of people having to interact with each other than once the Live launch is done will never see each other again. Since servers will be separate and changing servers will be an onerous task not to be taken lightly, those bad feelings and those people you may have such a toxic relationship with you might never see again. Those playing in Europe, US, and OCE depending on which server they choose will have very different experiences. The plan is for the alpha/beta server to become the public test server. Everyone starts fresh on Live. Even the 2 day headstart people won't really have that much of an advantage, since node development will be turned off for those two days.

My point is that once we get to our local servers people will have more incentive to not piss off the people they play with. Like classic mmo's before the glut of open group/raid finder cross-server killed having to know people, you will need to play nice if you want to get stuff done. People who are dicks and act like it will get a server rep, and while they may find other dick-oriented guilds, those will be an unsustainable part of play in a game that will require people working together to gather, gear, craft, and defend.

ArchivedUser

People become toxic because they think others are a hindrance to their progress. You can't progress alone in AoC. However, it won't prevent some people from not understanding that akaLeague. Anyway, most of the time I drink people's tears and enjoy their trash-talking. Why? Because it's chat. You just can ignore it and let the guy speak alone or ignore/mute him when you're not in the mood to savor it. And unlike League where you're stuck with the same people until the end, you can just kick the toxic element and recruit someone else.

ArchivedUser

Aren't people as a people mostly toxic, but ofc people will complain always and forever, but this community is full of people I shure that most of people hire know how to deal with toxic people and trolls, so yea, we can fix that toxic idea in this community

ArchivedUser

So far the game's not quite toxic, but only the alpha/beta will tell us how many assholes the game will attract. I hope it still remains clean.

ArchivedUser

One way to remedy this is to not have as much competition. People are working together to build up their node. I am hopeful this creates a sense of comradery. As well as rivalry, but you won't see that for a while. Not until Metropolises are starting to come out.

Another way would be to not force, but encourage people to group up together. Only examples I can think of that come close (Due to lack of experience on my part) Are the old vanilla WoW quests. Where humanoids were packed. You could certainly do it alone. But it would be a whole lot quicker, better, and easier to do these things together. Then there were the elite quests.

Only in recent years have I been feeling a sense of frustration (hatred is too strong a word) upon seeing other players constantly killing my quest mobs. 

If they keep those things in mind, I don't fear for the toxicity, or becoming toxic to others.

Also, if they keep the servers relatively small, toxic behaviour will be naturally punished by players. Someone can be notorious for whatever toxic behaviour, and find grouping quite difficult. Same goes if you make a good name for yourself.

The answers are out there.

ArchivedUser

I find that a lot of toxicity comes from

1. When the game is full of bugs and flaws that make game difficult to play. Hopefully alphas and betas will help smoothen this out - providing players are reminded that this is what alpha and beta stages are for. We've a great community participating in the persistent alpha - so hopefully we can work well together to help Intrepid deliver a great game.

2. From new players joining the community that don't understand how the game works. It's really important for us to ensure that new players are treated fairly and that we do our best to provide the answers for their (yes repetitive) questions in a supportive and friendly manner

ArchivedUser

@SethGure you got a point about not having any competition gives no toxic community and when the competition comes you will get a toxic forum.
There will always be toxic players and of course the increase of toxic players will come (most) in Beta because the player base also are increasing. Mostly the toxic players are new players that don't understand the game concept, that all what you do in the game have a risk in it. You take a risk and you die or get rewarded for it. fortunately we are not a MOBA game community, so while we are playing, we are not stuck with the same persons like @Waysm  was talking about. That means we have a better change to throw the trash talking player in the trash can haha
Yeah you can create toxic players when their house is destroyed, but that is what the game also are about. Gives the balance between destruction and creation, because then the players seek revenge and plot a destruction plan. 

What we can do about toxic players? that's a good question 

Could be what @Diura is saying - Let the new players get treated well and also let them know how the game is working. If you decide you want to go alone and die for it.... That's a risk you have taken and you died for it. 
To kill a toxic community, it's about listen to the toxic players and give them an answer. Not what they want to hear, but the truth. Ex. You got ganked and you died " you took a risk going alone and not skilled enough to deal with it yourself". IF they complain further about same subject then ignore them, because you gave them an answer and don't throw yourself into that bullshit. If we all do that and more persons are giving around the same answer, then the toxic community can be treated.
But hey it's easier said than done, but why not try?   

ArchivedUser

I think there are two different type of communities: the one gathering now and a another that will come at, or just prior to, the release. The latter usually searching for a quick superficial quick then moving on, like a locust just swarm.

ArchivedUser

Two elements that are making this community a toxic-free environment:

1) We really like what the devs are doing and we trust them.Some of us trusted them with hundres of dollars out of their pockets. People don't spend money on a game that is going to be released in a few years just to get into the forums and spread toxicity;

2) The guys at IS are doing a great job at keeping the community safe and healthy. They know how to make customers satisfied. Trust me, I don't shy away from complaining when I feel there is the need to do it.

It is unlikely the community will ever become toxic. All members, both from the company and customers, are very committed at preserving it as it is.

ArchivedUser

I've already seen some toxic threads. Hopefully it'll get better and not having cross realm technology will help somewhat with toxicity.

ArchivedUser

I agree it will stay nice and friendly till after launch and then there will be more smack talk towards the community. Everyone is trying to be nice at the moment so they can get in to alpha and beta and there is nothing really to fight about.

ArchivedUser

I don't think all people are toxic, and I don't feel as though "you weren't strong enough to go at it alone and that's on you" is an appropriate response. People that are intentionally rude or disrespectful are that way because that is where they are in maturity. If you have to use name calling and shouting to explain a point most people will respond negatively to that point, sometimes even if it makes sense. If losing a video game moves someone to rage they are lacking fundamental coping skills.

I agree w/ @Diura and would also encourage those community members that are here and positive and friendly now stay that way and treat each new member the way they would want to be treated.

It will suck to be ganked for no reason, but that can be said for many things in life that are mostly out of our control. Also, negative generalizations about people based on a comment they made encourages toxicity even if the original comment doesn't.

Competition does breed trash talk, but trash talk can be respectful and a beneficial way of blowing off steam in the community. Some people will be negative and hateful because they want to and some because they know no other way. @WhyMe2000f brings up a solid point, they can be ignored.

ArchivedUser

Once the game is fully released and guilds are exerting dominance over servers, controlling markets, commanding nodes and their expansion, etc. The salt will flow. Trust me. There will be salty kids crying or flaming. Then they'll get the boot and we'll all just giggle.  

ArchivedUser

WhyMe2000f said:

What we can do about toxic players? that's a good question 

Could be what @Diura is saying - Let the new players get treated well and also let them know how the game is working. If you decide you want to go alone and die for it.... That's a risk you have taken and you died for it. 
To kill a toxic community, it's about listen to the toxic players and give them an answer. Not what they want to hear, but the truth. Ex. You got ganked and you died " you took a risk going alone and not skilled enough to deal with it yourself". IF they complain further about same subject then ignore them, because you gave them an answer and don't throw yourself into that bullshit. If we all do that and more persons are giving around the same answer, then the toxic community can be treated.
But hey it's easier said than done, but why not try?   

I think you have stated this very well.  Unfortunately there are some people who are habitual trolls, bullies and complainers who get enjoyment  from rousing others ire. Ignoring them if they persist with complaints or bullying tactics is by far the best way to deal with them. Give them the truth once and don't argue with them because that is what they attention they crave.   If enough people do this they disappear.   It also helps to take note of their name and if you see them continuing to be toxic make sure they are not invited to any group or gathering you are in.   

ArchivedUser

While I agree that this is a relatively positive environment, I would not say toxic free.  Considering some of the ways that I have seen a few people treated, I can already see what it will be like at launch.  The treatment of a certain fashionista from what I recall has kept her from posting from further.  I pray that I am wrong about things to come, yet you don't need a crystal ball to see that Axis Chemicals will fully be open for business when the Kickstarter Alpha comes out.

The only thing we can do is control our own actions, and through those hopefully influence others to act in a similar manner.

Locke

ArchivedUser

There's no community without a few toxic personalities but so far the forums have been mostly positive. After launch things may change if ganking etc. becomes more prevalent as people victims turn bitter and deviants thrive on the tears. Let's just hope that won't happen!

ArchivedUser

There's another reason forums change when a game launches.  Prior to launch, everyone's here (or on Discord) because there's no other connection to the game.  We're all excited and trying to get our fix.  

After the game launches a great many people simply don't visit the forums as much as they're busy in the game.  The game completely fulfills their need and they don't feel compelled to spend time on the forums any longer.  Sadly, the people who often remain on the forums are the trash talkers and complainers.  

This is why there is a noticeable shift in the tone of a game forum after launch.

ArchivedUser

While it is possible for there to be topics of contention, and we do encourage healthy debate, should there be an issue where a thread or member becomes toxic, we MOD's will do our best to address it asap. So far we have been blessed with an amazing Community and has so few cases where anything has become toxic. Lets keep it going

ArchivedUser

Ariatras said:

" ... Also, if they keep the servers relatively small, toxic behaviour will be naturally punished by players. Someone can be notorious for whatever toxic behaviour, and find grouping quite difficult. Same goes if you make a good name for yourself.

The answers are out there. "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAAlDoAtV7Y

I had to i couldn't resist >~>

ArchivedUser

Eragale said:

Ariatras said:

" ... Also, if they keep the servers relatively small, toxic behaviour will be naturally punished by players. Someone can be notorious for whatever toxic behaviour, and find grouping quite difficult. Same goes if you make a good name for yourself.

The answers are out there. "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAAlDoAtV7Y

I had to i couldn't resist >~>

Hahaha, that's what was in my mind when I wrote that last part Thanks for noticing! 

ArchivedUser

I've been in several very early communities and compared to those (FF14, SWTOR and Archeage) this community is really not that toxic yet, even when compared to other pre-Alpha communities been a part of.

I think alot of that has to do with how engaged Intrepid is with us. I don't think I've ever Snap Chatted with a game company before. (BTW sorry for all the shirtless pics of me holding fruit in front of a fire.)

ArchivedUser

avsniper said:

" Once the game is fully released and guilds are exerting dominance over servers, controlling markets, commanding nodes and their expansion, etc. The salt will flow. Trust me. There will be salty kids crying or flaming. Then they'll get the boot and we'll all just giggle. " 

Lols, @avsniper , I can confidently say thats a fallacy 

5 - 10 Players using an Epic Level Monster Token at the same time in order to demand that Node to be taken down - and since the " Monster " is not A.I. - that  " Monster " knows who to attack first - their Healer(s). 

Regardless of how many times the Tank(s) taunt - oblivion is coming   

EDIT: In short, there's too many variables to consider. One of the Guild(s) could try to betray the other too 

ArchivedUser

It's the internet.  As long as you can be anonymous behind a computer screen, toxicity will be more prevalent.  The community thus far has been mostly positive, and I think you can attribute a majority of that to the passion everyone in this community has towards the game.  Most of the people in the community right now are the people who want to see IS succeed.

ArchivedUser

Eragale said:

5 - 10 Players using an Epic Level Monster Token at the same time in order to demand that Node to be taken down - and since the " Monster " is not A.I. - that  " Monster " knows who to attack first - their Healer(s). 

Regardless of how many times the Tank(s) taunt - oblivion is coming   

EDIT: In short, there's too many variables to consider. one of the Guild(s) could try to betray the other too 

Monster coins don't quite work like that.  Players who use them don't get to choose when and where they'll go.  Here's how they work:

1. Event spawns.
2. Next eligible monster coin in the queue (they have their own ID numbers) is offered the opportunity to play as a monster in the event.
3. Player is transported from their current location to the event in the role of the monster.

Players will not be able to exploit monster coins to attack a specific node they want to bring down.

ArchivedUser

From my point of view -> some people will argue more, some people will troll more but on the other side... Many people will bond together and form some kind of friendships while playing together. 
So maybe negative emotions will be more visible but the good emotions will also be stronger

Trolls and agressive people are everywhere on the Internet because they feel anonymous :P.

ArchivedUser

@Possum Still too many Variables to consider - anything could happen.
And ... lols" Leader of Men " Packages explicitly states you will get 1 Epic Monster Tokens.
" Braver of Worlds " states that you'll get 5 Elite Monster Tokens. Even though Elite Monsters aren't that strong ... then just have more People ?

10 - 15  Players using Elite Monster Tokens in order to remove a Node.

Sure it won't be like that after Players have consumed their Rewards, but if they're smart about it and wait until it's the right time ...


Imagine 15  of these happening in 1 Node ... and worse   

ArchivedUser

Eragale said:

@Possum Still too many Variables to consider - anything could happen.
And ... lols" Leader of Men " Packages explicitly states you will get 1 Epic Monster Tokens.
" Braver of Worlds " states that you'll get 5 Elite Monster Tokens. Even though Elite Monsters aren't that strong ... then just have more People ?

10 - 15  Players using Elite Monster Tokens in order to remove a Node.

Sure it won't be like that after Players have consumed their Rewards, but if they're smart about it and wait until it's the right time ...


Imagine 15  of these happening in 1 Node ... and worse   

The devs spoke to this in one of the live streams.  The monster coins won't be setup in such a way that you can plan a group and attack a specific target.  You simply are offered the opportunity to participate in a random event that spawns, if your coin's ID is next in the queue.  With a system like this, it will be nearly impossible for a group of people to plan a coordinated attack using monster coins.

I'm at work and don't have the time to search for the referenced live stream, but I assure you it's out there.  Someone else may be able to find it and post the link.

ArchivedUser

Possum said:

Eragale said:

@Possum Still too many Variables to consider - anything could happen.
And ... lols" Leader of Men " Packages explicitly states you will get 1 Epic Monster Tokens.
" Braver of Worlds " states that you'll get 5 Elite Monster Tokens. Even though Elite Monsters aren't that strong ... then just have more People ?

10 - 15  Players using Elite Monster Tokens in order to remove a Node.

Sure it won't be like that after Players have consumed their Rewards, but if they're smart about it and wait until it's the right time ...


Imagine 15  of these happening in 1 Node ... and worse   

The devs spoke to this in one of the live streams.  The monster coins won't be setup in such a way that you can plan a group and attack a specific target.  You simply are offered the opportunity to participate in a random event that spawns, if your coin's ID is next in the queue.  With a system like this, it will be nearly impossible for a group of people to plan a coordinated attack using monster coins.

I'm at work and don't have the time to search for the referenced live stream, but I assure you it's out there.  Someone else may be able to find it and post the link.

This is true and they said you won't able to delevel or destroy a node, just buildings in it.

ArchivedUser

Sure it was already stated in a stream that Monster Coin Monsters cannot de-level nodes only damage the buildings and infrastructure in some way.

Also this whole thread is a discussion about 100's of different things that could be defined as player toxic behaviour. To one person being kicked from a PvE group or not invited is toxic, to another it would have to be extreme behaviour as in constant hate messages or abuse of ingame mechanics to effect another player.

If you are to discuss any concept you have to clearly define it first. Or people just end up discussing totally different interpretations of that concept.