Will the military node destroy all?

ArchivedUser

So if you are leet at pvp then the military node is where you will most likely find other leet pvpers. 

And if the best pvpers are citizens of the military metropolis then all other nodes will most likely need to submit or be destroyed or both. 

Earths history had not been shaped by who is the most studious, religious or richest. Its the civilization that is military the strongest.  And a metropolis that is hell bent on being military superior as its primary focus;   how in the hell are other metropolis going to oppose this?

ArchivedUser

Actually I would argue the civilizations with the best military's normally had them because they paid them. But as with anything you could name plenty examples on both sides. 

But as far as the node goes...in order to start a siege there will be a lot of PvE, grinding, and wealth involved in even starting a siege. I do not think at this point we can even say which node will be the most dominant. I imagine it will change from server to server and will be more reliant on strong guilds and alliances. 

ArchivedUser

I think the balance to this is the players choose the direction the world takes and the fact that each Metro brings something different to the table so even if the elite pvpers go Military at first they will expand into other Metros to experience different content.  

Not to mention up to 5 cities can become Metros if I'm not mistaken so if they truly feel threatened then they can band together to fight off the Militaristic Node. That is part of the player driven game is forging alliances to either defend or attack.

That is the great thing about this game is that the direction the world takes is completely player driven. So yah maybe they succeed a few times in the beginning but then maybe the players get tired of it and form an alliance to defeat that node at every turn whether its rouge type guilds attacking caravans constantly or groups hitting them at grinding spots then finally attacking the node it self. 

ArchivedUser

Civilisations that are studious, have been far less inclined to go to war, they used to focus on the bettering of all humans. That being said.

A bow over a spear, was a scientific discovery. The use of tools in general are scientific. Designed to make a task easier. Look at Native Americans, when the west forcibly took the land. Science made that possible.

ArchivedUser

Ariatras said:

Civilisations that are studious, have been far less inclined to go to war, they used to focus on the bettering of all humans. That being said.

A bow over a spear, was a scientific discovery. The use of tools in general are scientific. Designed to make a task easier. Look at Native Americans, when the west forcibly took the land. Science made that possible.

Ouch, I wouldnt use that example. Historians estimate that they were up to 20 million indians when the europeans came and 80-90% of them perished as a result. Noone knows who killed the most, smallpox or the guns, so what you are saying is like Holocaust times 3 

ArchivedUser

I agree with @Sintu - the military node (as you described, with a lot of PvP players) will have a hard time to organize a siege.

AFAIK: the resources required to start a siege depend on the level of the node (that they want to attack). A node where only PvP players exist probably won't even reach a metropolis level, ever.
If all the players are pure PvP players, the acquisation of resources will take an eternity.

ArchivedUser

By the grace of god will will make the heathens join our ranks of dead 

ArchivedUser

I think the strongest metropolis will be the economic ones. The people with the money can pay for defense. They may not be the best fighters but that doesn't matter when you can pay a bunch of mercenary guilds and hire a bunch of npc guards.

ArchivedUser

I think they will all have their perks and what makes them stand out. It is too early to tell, which would be the best of them all.

ArchivedUser

Egolego said:

Ariatras said:

Civilisations that are studious, have been far less inclined to go to war, they used to focus on the bettering of all humans. That being said.

A bow over a spear, was a scientific discovery. The use of tools in general are scientific. Designed to make a task easier. Look at Native Americans, when the west forcibly took the land. Science made that possible.

Ouch, I wouldnt use that example. Historians estimate that they were up to 20 million indians when the europeans came and 80-90% of them perished as a result. Noone knows who killed the most, smallpox or the guns, so what you are saying is like Holocaust times 3 

I didn't want to be insensitive, or something. And I think shoving that part of history under the rug, rather than learning from it is a mistake. But I get your point. I just couldn't come up with a different example on the fly. I do apologise for any offence I've given. 

ArchivedUser

I am super keen on PvP and have an extensive PvP background, no intention of residing in a Military node currently.

ArchivedUser

Leet PvPers will go live in Economy node so they have cash to upgrade their gear.

ArchivedUser

I think a big contributing factor to difficulties with military nodes is that their governance puts people at odds in a combat situation.

I can see a lot of citizens who might be unable to compete for power (through combat in a military node or those who can compete but aren't quite best of the best) leaving the node or, at least, not working cohesively with the group that just destroyed them for node governance.

Perhaps some will stay and be happy reaper the rewards/perks of the node as passive citizens, but just anecdotally, I'm finding a lot of military node lovers who want to "rule" a node and might not take kindly to not being in power after failing to prove themselves to be the best.

ArchivedUser

I just felt a disturbance in the Force.

ArchivedUser

Do not forget, that in military society, if a madman is the strongest wins everyone and governs, he can ruin everything for the laughter

ArchivedUser

I think that with there being a possibility of multiple military nodes that it won't end up being all the military type guilds/people in one trying to rule the entire server  but rather different military nodes in competition with each other for the top spot as a military node

ArchivedUser

I would expect all of the node types to be equally balanced when it comes to defensive capability but how that defense is done will differ from node to node.

Military - Obviously the most heavily armed up front but having a slower economy and less tech might be how they are balanced. They should however be the best equipped to go on the offense so if you see a military node show up next to you, that should be a red flag.

Divine - Having the support of a god on your side. What else can you say? Maybe the god will send down support troops in time of need or even a powerful Avatar?

Economic - The ability to quickly gather, build and repair assets along with hiring mercs to fight for you.

Scientific - Their walls will be made of better/stronger materials and while you bring bows to the fight they will respond with cannons! (yes I know there won't be gunpowder driven devices, it's just an example). Might also be the most magically orientated. Depends of what "science" is in AoC)

ArchivedUser

PlagueMonk said:

I would expect all of the node types to be equally balanced when it comes to defensive capability but how that defense is done will differ from node to node.

Military - Obviously the most heavily armed up front but having a slower economy and less tech might be how they are balanced. They should however be the best equipped to go on the offense so if you see a military node show up next to you, that should be a red flag.

Divine - Having the support of a god on your side. What else can you say? Maybe the god will send down support troops in time of need or even a powerful Avatar?

Economic - The ability to quickly gather, build and repair assets along with hiring mercs to fight for you.

Scientific - Their walls will be made of better/stronger materials and while you bring bows to the fight they will respond with cannons! (yes I know there won't be gunpowder driven devices, it's just an example). Might also be the most magically orientated. Depends of what "science" is in AoC)

A smart leader will take their particular node's strengths and weaknesses into consideration when trying to build their nodes and defenses.  Build what is weak and maintain what is strong.  It's not going to be easy.  
The biggest thing they will need to build on is their citizen loyalty.  A happy citizen will work for and defend what they believe in.    Cooperation and 

ArchivedUser

CylverRayne said:

PlagueMonk said:

I would expect all of the node types to be equally balanced when it comes to defensive capability but how that defense is done will differ from node to node.

Military - Obviously the most heavily armed up front but having a slower economy and less tech might be how they are balanced. They should however be the best equipped to go on the offense so if you see a military node show up next to you, that should be a red flag.

Divine - Having the support of a god on your side. What else can you say? Maybe the god will send down support troops in time of need or even a powerful Avatar?

Economic - The ability to quickly gather, build and repair assets along with hiring mercs to fight for you.

Scientific - Their walls will be made of better/stronger materials and while you bring bows to the fight they will respond with cannons! (yes I know there won't be gunpowder driven devices, it's just an example). Might also be the most magically orientated. Depends of what "science" is in AoC)

A smart leader will take their particular node's strengths and weaknesses into consideration when trying to build their nodes and defenses.  Build what is weak and maintain what is strong.  It's not going to be easy.  
The biggest thing they will need to build on is their citizen loyalty.  A happy citizen will work for and defend what they believe in.    Cooperation and 

That opens up an interesting thing. Namely, whomever gets chosen as a leader of a node, might have to make strategic decisions in regards to defence placement, almost like a mini rts. For example, if you place an armoury at the East end of your metropolis, but the soldier garrison is at the opposite end, it'll take quite a while your troops to get mobilised etc, and for reinforcements to come, arrows to be restocked. etc. 

So now I am hoping, that there's some degree of control in regards to where buildings are placed, and that it's not just a set setup. I'd even be okay with WoW garrison type placement, just on a larger scale, and with more options. 

ArchivedUser

Ariatras said:

CylverRayne said:

PlagueMonk said:

I would expect all of the node types to be equally balanced when it comes to defensive capability but how that defense is done will differ from node to node.

Military - Obviously the most heavily armed up front but having a slower economy and less tech might be how they are balanced. They should however be the best equipped to go on the offense so if you see a military node show up next to you, that should be a red flag.

Divine - Having the support of a god on your side. What else can you say? Maybe the god will send down support troops in time of need or even a powerful Avatar?

Economic - The ability to quickly gather, build and repair assets along with hiring mercs to fight for you.

Scientific - Their walls will be made of better/stronger materials and while you bring bows to the fight they will respond with cannons! (yes I know there won't be gunpowder driven devices, it's just an example). Might also be the most magically orientated. Depends of what "science" is in AoC)

A smart leader will take their particular node's strengths and weaknesses into consideration when trying to build their nodes and defenses.  Build what is weak and maintain what is strong.  It's not going to be easy.  
The biggest thing they will need to build on is their citizen loyalty.  A happy citizen will work for and defend what they believe in.    Cooperation and 

That opens up an interesting thing. Namely, whomever gets chosen as a leader of a node, might have to make strategic decisions in regards to defence placement, almost like a mini rts. For example, if you place an armoury at the East end of your metropolis, but the soldier garrison is at the opposite end, it'll take quite a while your troops to get mobilised etc, and for reinforcements to come, arrows to be restocked. etc. 

So now I am hoping, that there's some degree of control in regards to where buildings are placed, and that it's not just a set setup. I'd even be okay with WoW garrison type placement, just on a larger scale, and with more options. 

If we have any control or options  how or where things are built then  we need to hope that whoever is in charge knows what he/she is doing. Strategy and being able to think ahead is important.
Again I say,  emphasis should be placed on good communication  and treating the populace well. 
Give them value and a reason to want to defend and support the node.  It's going to take a lot of cooperation and planning.  Small groups and individuals can be enticed to be look outs and report what they see.  Word can get out and people will answer a "Call to Arms" if their homes are being threatened.   

ArchivedUser

@CylverRayne You could make it a council thing, not to mention, things like a scientific node hold democratic elections,

ArchivedUser

If you mean "leet pvper" to imply the highly skilled assassin, with the ego the size of James Cameron, and the mentality of a twelve year old, then in a word, NO.

1) The PVE only crowd (Make a PVE Only Server Please Group) would never be a part of it.  Finding such persons so nauseating as to never bend a knee to such a ruler.  PVX will come and go based on interests, and what other options are available. Though the  PVE Heavy and PVP Occassionally crowd would be scarce to find.  Not saying that all PVPers would flock there either.  Plenty of Alpha Males would go elsewhere after losing their chance for the crown.  Not even count the numbers of PVP only individuals who have other reasons for being elsewhere, like with their friends in another node.  Their population may have some of the most skilled fighters on the server, but with such a massive loss of production minded citizens, it will take vastly more time for that node to level up.  Even then, the time to raise the resources to raid their neighbors will put them at an out-sized disadvantage.

2) Numbers matter.  Regardless of the 300 inspired philosophy of skillz over numbers, reality proves differently.  There is no doubt an army composed of some of the best PVPers the server has to offer will be formidable.  Certainly one could entertain they could be victorious over a foe twice their number.  Yet as stated in Point 1, their numbers will not be terribly great.  So the potential for them to be outnumbered 3 to 1 is easily surmised.

The node to fear, unless there are specific game mechanics as yet unannounced, is the Economic one.  Wealth is power.  With the institution of their Stock Exchange, such power will be unbalancing.  I could easily see an Economic node rolling a Military one if the Node Benefits as stated are not changed, or added to.

Locke

ArchivedUser

Mostly what I gathered from this is that I should make my inn at a military node and reap the rewards because there will be little to no competition since everyone there will undoubtebly be focused on killing everyone around them.  Hey... even murderers gotta eat.

ArchivedUser

Germrot dijo:

Sobre todo lo que recogí de esto es que debo hacer mi posada en un nodo militar y cosechar las recompensas porque habrá poca o ninguna competencia ya que todo el mundo sin duda se centrará en matar a todos a su alrededor. Hey ... incluso los asesinos tienen que comer.

But in a military node you will surely be charged more taxes than in the economically richer.

ArchivedUser

No.


simple answer~

ArchivedUser

I would think it would be in a Military node's better interest to form alliances with non-Military nodes in order to have allies that shore up their weaknesses.

Also, I doubt all of the PvPers of all the different races in the game are going to want to move to the same city and "be PvPers together", or whatever...  I'm not a PvPer, but that just doesn't sound like typical PvPer behavior to me (based on observation).