Skill FX vs Realism, what's your poison?

ArchivedUser

The game looks great but I have to admit I'm a little worried about the spell/skill FX I've seen. They look nice but some seem VERY showy. I think it works amazing for a Mage but when I take my TANK on the front line and I do a shield bash, I favor a good animation(s) (Both player and npc reacting) and solid sound design that really gives me the impression something just got knocked the hell out! Block, parry sound FX with great animations can make a TAB targeting/positioning combat system look like a choreographed fight! 

I don't want to see the huge colourful FX of a giant shield appearing and slamming in my opponent while my actual shield just does nothing, glued to my arm. It really breaks immersion and honestly looks ridiculous in massive PvP battles where the battlefield looks like a rainbow bridge of FX. But that's just me. 

What are your thoughts? Ideas? Complaints? Violent reactions? 

Do you want to see a rogue be actually sneaky or see a massive purple explosion of particles when he backstabs someone? 

~ V

ArchivedUser

When i played ffxiv as a dragoon positioning was very important, and when i got to the late game content there were so many effects that it made it hard to tell where i was reletive to my opponent. i have gotten to the point where i dont mind special effects but i want them to be as minimalistic as possible so that they dont drown out what im looking at.

ArchivedUser

I do think magic animations should be more showy than physical attacks just because of their inherent nature. Magic shouldn'the be over exaggerated, like Final Fantasy, but they should definitely look magical. Physical attacks should instead feel like they have weight behind them. Evert blow should feel like you are colliding with something and should be scaled based off of whether it's just a swinging attack or the whole weight of your body is hitting the enemy.

ArchivedUser

I think we'll have a better understanding of the FX and skill animations at PAX. It's difficult to judge from the videos we've seen already purely because it's pre alpha and we haven't seen much normal gameplay from melee classes yet
Although I like flashy skills - sometimes it can be over the top and just like @Moonspike has said - it can interfere with the gameplay and drown out the screen ^^

ArchivedUser

for me, just my personal preference is...if i'm a melee wielding a 2h greatsword i want "weak" fx as in nothing very flashy just looks like the wind swipe you see in quite a few games....BUT!, if i am a mage/tank with a 2h greatsword i want that thing slingin' around fire and lightning like a champ! I want every swing to explode with something lol.  we'll just have to wait and see what they got in store for some of these weapon skills and the class augments...

ArchivedUser

From prior videos it seems like they are going far in animations and movements, hopefuly they can balance that with the fx since they've promised much in that regard.

ArchivedUser

Physical damage should be sound effects and vapour trails maybe and possible the occasional metal/metal sparks of contact. I expect the combat animations to convey inertia of expected physical reality.

Magical damage depends on what side of the fence you are on. Some want to go the anything in the imagination road. Some want to go the magic is a form of energy and must obey the laws of physics regardless. So fire, lightning, freeze fracturing, gravity well all have expected physical appearances. Drawing talismans and such on the ground in which you sit or where something is summoned is normally just a summoning ritual.

The problem is, for combat to be fun, it must be 'reactive'. Reactive means both parties must be able to react to each others skills. That means all skill must have a build up time before impact. That means all skills must have a unique way to identify what the skill is as it is being applied. That way you can react in the right way at the right time with the right response.

So the problem is we need unique and obvious identifiers for all skills. Physical skills have unique animations and are pretty easy to identify and isolate. Magical skills ? Thats a different can of worms. How do you isolate someone about to throw a weak flame skill from someone who is just about to drop a comet on your head ? Everyone knows an axe is about to cleave your skull as you can see it coming. Only the Mage knows you are about to be electrocuted.

So I would suggest electricity, shrapnel, ice of flame coalescing around the mage. And then different actions to signify the damage skill. I would expect damage to be proportional to lead time. I would therefore expect slow methodical movements for big power attacks and short sharp movements for weaker rapid attacks.

ArchivedUser

Skill FX was the only backer goal i disliked on the Kickstarter. I feel like visuals are great deal for PvP and much more, but especially PvP. I don't want to see white or blue fireballs coming at me, I would think that white fireball as an ice and use my anti-freeze skill and it will go to waste because that white thing was actually a fireball. It would just confuse me to see the same skill with different effects. 

ArchivedUser

Yeah. No one wants confusion..especially PvP.
No one wants silly either.
The more skills you have though, the more uniquely identifiable systems you need.
Quite a pickle really. lol

Do you want 1000 different spells, all uniquely identifiable. And if so....do you honestly think you would remember them ? Thats the real issue I guess. You have to be able to associate an effect with a skill so that all skills remain...'''easily identifiable or memorable'''

Using a unique geometric pattern is not easily identifiable and memorable among th 100s of others. Hence I suggested using a combo of atmospheric identifiers and physical animations. So you can get the gist of a spell through combos as it were. You can represent a far greater variety out of a tiny combo set, just like using binary code. yet its simple, memorable and thus easily identifiable.

ArchivedUser

example. Point both arms at an angle would imply a cone effect. Pointing forward a lin eof sight effect. Gesturing a circle an PBAoE. Gesturing a spiral a AoE. Having appropriate elements rotate around you would indicate the type of damage. Rapid gestures for rapid attacks and slow gestures for long powerful attacks.

In essence magical skill indicators become modular effects/animations.

ArchivedUser

Personally I don't mind over the top. I've always liked old martial arts films so the more over the top the better. Besides if I wanted realism I'd just go outside and socialize which sounds dreadfully awful. 

ArchivedUser

BrvBrvSirRobin said:

Personally I don't mind over the top. I've always liked old martial arts films so the more over the top the better. Besides if I wanted realism I'd just go outside and socialize which sounds dreadfully awful. 

Where did that agree button go?

ArchivedUser

Like the examples given, there can be too much. I agree there, but in response to the OP himself. We are in a magical world before anything else. Magic appears to be abundant. Mind you, appears. We have fire spiting dragons, "physical classes" conjuring giant earth walls and different seasons in different zones at the same time.
How do you "justify" to be able to hold back a dragon with your tiny physical shield? I get it, in a pvp battle it might seem ridiculous, but why would you hold your punches in a life or death battle? Just because it's meant for bigger targets?
Sure you could argue your armor is imbuded with magic to protect yourself, but how do you hold back a dragon that is 20 times your size?
We are going more towards massive again, we need a lot of people and not just a chosen few to accomplish stuff, but we are still talking about threats unimaginable. At the very least I can get behind the idea of having unimaginable skills to oppose them.

ArchivedUser

yes please no over the top fancy fx effects for every fart your character does.
Its pretty ridiculous if you look at games like WoW where your fancy Paladin is disappearing in all its divine light effects like a fucking god but still cant kill this stupid boar which is 3 levels higher than him...