My thoughts/suggestions on crafting/economy balancing

ArchivedUser

First of all, this may be considered a wall of text so the TL:DR:

This is my opinion on some crafting areas, primarily focusing on sustainability of the market and how it pertains to leveling crafting skills. If any of the game designers are interested in more details, I'd be happy to supply them (I don't expect that one).

I suspect crafting will involve repetitively making the same item to level up. As such, the markets get swamped and the item becomes near worthless, making more difficult for future players to level without the investment of far more money (due do decrease of sales). Below are a couple of mechanisms that would help with this and add more variety/marketability to crafted items.

The basics:

Salvage (or desynthesis)

You have an item and attempt to salvage it. It destroys the item but you have a chance at getting some, if not all on a particularly lucky RNG, of the components back. The rate on the success could be based on the number of components (and the rate at getting back more than one item would lessen with each additional item IE: 40% for 1, 20% to get back a 2nd after the first)

Enchantments (or Enhancing)

Take an item and attempt to give it random stats. For this I would key a maximum amount of stats and values for those stats based on an item level (I assume there will be a minimum level gear can be equipped). For example a level 10 sword could receive up to 2 stats while a level 20 sword could receive 3. I also believe the system should allow for both positive and negative stats adding a bit more risk to the process. Once an item as been enchanted, it is stuck that way. Failing an attempted enchant would give a chance of outright destroying the item.

Working into a system:

I would have each crafting skill have the primary skill for creating the item along with the two subskills so blacksmithing's salvage and enchanting would be different from leatherworking's. Additionally, these two subskills should level at a slower pace than the primary skill since they aren't necessary for creation.

An extended example (with simplified numbers because balancing numbers is well beyond this scope):

So lets say you're crafting a sword. Based on level you have a 80% success rate. The next step can either be to enchant the sword or salvage it. This success rate would be half that (40%). If the person chose to enchant, then salvaging the enchanted sword would be possible but again at half the second step's rate (20%). This success would yield some of the crafting components back and allow to start the cycle.

Putting it together:

This type of system would stop the market from being flooded by creating constant demand for both raw materials and the finished product due to the loss percent in each step. Since the subskills level slower, this would also create demand for lower level items allowing those entering the market to have trading partners for their finished goods if they chose not to use them for themselves.

If you actually got to the end of this (and didn't just skip down here), good for you!  Any thoughts or comments?

ArchivedUser

I've always hated mass production since the days when I worked at IKEA 

so I'm on board with any plan to limit it. 
I'm not sure about the method but let's see what other ideas there are about how to limit an over saturated market

ArchivedUser

It is always great to make suggestions. From what limited knowledge we know of crafting flooding of the "market" with low level items is going to be limited. Since markets are local and there is no global AH, the closest you are going to get to a widespread flooding might be after several months of an economic node at metropolis level implementing the ZOI exchange. Salvaging is already a planned mechanic. 

The way they have decided to implement the crafting tree will lead to a robust economy. You are NOT going to be able to gather, refine, and craft items on a single character. You will choose one of the three. While alts may be able to supply your main crafter with what he needs, it probably will be more time efficient to just make deals with others.


Your idea of enchanting is also confirmed. For an example, not every crafter will be able to make the exact same high level item. Recipes are going to be limited # of use crafting in some cases, and extremely rare drops in others.


The information we have so far is limited to what small details they have dropped in livestreams/interviews and the quotebin from forums and Discord. The hiring of a game designer that also has a PhD in economics is also a good sign that economy balance is being taken seriously.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

You are NOT going to be able to gather, refine, and craft items on a single character. You will choose one of the three. While alts may be able to supply your main crafter with what he needs, it probably will be more time efficient to just make deals with others.

I am pretty sure that this was clarified. You can gather, process and craft items on a single character but you will never be able to master any single aspect as you will need to spread your points/experience across all three disciplines, leading you to be a jack-of-all-trades but a master of none.

I don't think that approach is going to be a particularly good one, as you won't be able to reach any real depth in anything, leading to a life of regret at not being able to craft those high level items or to even gather those exceptionally rare items, or gain whatever buffs deeper penetration of the skill tree would provide.

I have always loved gathering, but I think I want to go full crafter in this game and be able to make some of the best items in the game for myself, friends and guildmates.

ArchivedUser

Lazerou said:

UnknownSystemError said:

You are NOT going to be able to gather, refine, and craft items on a single character. You will choose one of the three. While alts may be able to supply your main crafter with what he needs, it probably will be more time efficient to just make deals with others.

I am pretty sure that this was clarified. You can gather, process and craft items on a single character but you will never be able to master any single aspect as you will need to spread your points/experience across all three disciplines, leading you to be a jack-of-all-trades but a master of none.

According to @GMSteven, the opposite of what you state is true

An artisan will choose which path he will progress in, or he can spread out his progress to be efficient in all three trees of artisanship.  True masters will be dedicated to one of the three Artisan paths.  Because of the amount of time and effort required to become a skilled artisan in Ashes of Creation, these players will undoubtedly exert a strong influence over the in-game economy.  

Source: Cryyfuu interview 

ArchivedUser

lexmax said:

Lazerou said:

UnknownSystemError said:

You are NOT going to be able to gather, refine, and craft items on a single character. You will choose one of the three. While alts may be able to supply your main crafter with what he needs, it probably will be more time efficient to just make deals with others.

I am pretty sure that this was clarified. You can gather, process and craft items on a single character but you will never be able to master any single aspect as you will need to spread your points/experience across all three disciplines, leading you to be a jack-of-all-trades but a master of none.

According to @GMSteven, the opposite of what you state is true

An artisan will choose which path he will progress in, or he can spread out his progress to be efficient in all three trees of artisanship.  True masters will be dedicated to one of the three Artisan paths.  Because of the amount of time and effort required to become a skilled artisan in Ashes of Creation, these players will undoubtedly exert a strong influence over the in-game economy.  

Source: Cryyfuu interview 

Isn't that exactly the same? You can be all three but you won't be a "true master" unless you focus on just one.

So, as Lazerou said, you can be a jack of all trades but a master of none.

I don't think the spread out approach would be that popular. Doesn't everyone want to be able to reach the pinnacle of whatever they choose to do?