Subclass

ArchivedUser

Now I know there's going to be many subclasses to help flavor one's character and add more mechanics to the game outside of combat but I do hope to see a scribe sub class. I think it would be cool for players to be able to write notes books Etc to be sold, purchased, or even found simply laying around.  or at very least for the ability for all characters to hold and write  in a journal. 

ArchivedUser

It has been talked about. It might come after Live launch. No current plans to see it in Alpha/Beta.

ArchivedUser

Writing books and selling them? Gaining popularity for your stories in-game? Bookstores? That would be awesome! 

ArchivedUser

I feel like that would be more of an artisan profession. 

ArchivedUser

Interesting concept and definitely would be fun.

ArchivedUser

You spoke to my soul when you mentioned scribe @S1ugTrail I would love to see something like that in the future if possible.  I say future because I think I would prefer them to flush out the mechanics they are already working on.  But yes, count me in!  I'd love to own my own bookstore!

ArchivedUser

Right I love the idea. I would agree with you @Zastro  but I feel that Artisan could apply for more than just writing such as painting or statue carving Etc. Which they could do fairly easily. However this would most likely be after the initial launch. In which they could give Artisan classes access to a form of tools they use to create skins for houses. Or take something of a screenshot of what they're currently looking at and depending on how hi there Artisan level is will produce a better painting or image of that scene.

ArchivedUser

Of course though that would be restricted to only what they see in the game... imagine walking up to a shop and they happen to be selling the only painting in AOC existence of the great battle between the adventures defending their Metropolis from the mountain dragon.

ArchivedUser

But @Zastro  just in case if you thought I meant class like wizard or your secondary class I meant your subclass like Smithy or Alchemist.

ArchivedUser

S1ugTrail said:

Of course though that would be restricted to only what they see in the game... imagine walking up to a shop and they happen to be selling the only painting in AOC existence of the great battle between the adventures defending their Metropolis from the mountain dragon.

That sounds sooo cool, you'd have a battle with all these contraptions and all the players and someone in the background is just sitting there, painting that moment. People will be watching the battle unfold from a safe distance and writing stories, songs, making art about it. Making history

ArchivedUser

Many many months back on the old forum. There were a few that discussed having centres of learning and museums for artefact storage to record discoveries and adventures. Where artefacts were a piece of a puzzle with many facets. Recovering each would reveal a missing piece of the puzzle. It was to be a player driven quest chain system driven by exploration. You would need to recover maps, clues, rubbing, images, murals, items....etc.

Nostalgia is a heart warming thing. ...and equally painful when you realise it will probably never happen.

ArchivedUser

@S1ugTrail Yeah, Intrepid is calling it your artisan class.

ArchivedUser

@Zastro that is awesome.  I can't wait to see what they do. 

ArchivedUser

Why do we even need classes? We've seen the subclass system in games like Rift and Runes of Magic... didn't work so well.
If this is going to be a sandbox-game, then why not having characters who can do anything?

Level up the skills instead of the characters, so a character's development depents purely on which abilities the player truly uses. If I swing a sword for ninety percent of the time, then I'll end up unlocking a lot of sword- and body-focused skills. If I switch to other skills, my warrior skills will slowly degenerate because I don't use them. Or make it so that unlocking everything would take an incredible amount of time.

I always hated these restrictions in MMOs. PvP always ends up in paper-rock-scissors.

ArchivedUser

Asca said:

Why do we even need classes? We've seen the subclass system in games like Rift and Runes of Magic... didn't work so well.
If this is going to be a sandbox-game, then why not having characters who can do anything?

Level up the skills instead of the characters, so a character's development depents purely on which abilities the player truly uses. If I swing a sword for ninety percent of the time, then I'll end up unlocking a lot of sword- and body-focused skills. If I switch to other skills, my warrior skills will slowly degenerate because I don't use them. Or make it so that unlocking everything would take an incredible amount of time.

I always hated these restrictions in MMOs. PvP always ends up in paper-rock-scissors.

You make a valid point. I have played games where classes are non-existent or even more fluid than the primary/secondary system in Ashes.

From a technical angle, classes do help make the game easier to balance.
I'm not saying everyone does, but many people identify with their class. It has been a staple of the high fantasy genre dating back to D&D. I do see your point however

ArchivedUser

They can still be a tank or healer, whatever they want. It would just be important not to have a character that's stuck in a certain role.
The argument that it is *easy to balance* is true, but as I said... every MMO which does that ends up with a paper-rock-scissor PvP at the end of the day.

Tank beats Rogue, Rogue beats Healer, Healer beats tank,... add more classes of your choosing. In a cubclass system, it gets even more complicated with the numbers of permutations.
It's simply a result of having fixed roles, even if you can combine fixed roles with each other, you still end up with fixed roles, just a lot of them. After dozens of MMO's over the years, if game developers tell me that they found the perfect balance... I simply laugh at them. There is always something that doesn't add up or makes it past the Beta-Test.
In the end, only the players themselves find the really broken tricks.

I don't call that a balance.

It's far better to have a few cookie-cutter-builds which change from time to time without the need to start a new character.

At least you don't walk through the PvP zone with your Tank and take your hands off the keyboard because you encountered someone who is the paper to your stone.

ArchivedUser

Asca said:

They can still be a tank or healer, whatever they want. It would just be important not to have a character that's stuck in a certain role.
The argument that it is *easy to balance* is true, but as I said... every MMO which does that ends up with a paper-rock-scissor PvP at the end of the day.

Tank beats Rogue, Rogue beats Healer, Healer beats tank,... add more classes of your choosing. In a cubclass system, it gets even more complicated with the numbers of permutations.
It's simply a result of having fixed roles, even if you can combine fixed roles with each other, you still end up with fixed roles, just a lot of them. After dozens of MMO's over the years, if game developers tell me that they found the perfect balance... I simply laugh at them. There is always something that doesn't add up or makes it past the Beta-Test.
In the end, only the players themselves find the really broken tricks.

I don't call that a balance.

It's far better to have a few cookie-cutter-builds which change from time to time without the need to start a new character.

At least you don't walk through the PvP zone with your Tank and take your hands off the keyboard because you encountered someone who is the paper to your stone.

I don't think of this as being a problem. I believe some classes should have inherent advantages over others. But it all depends on the situation, the environment, and the skill of the players. If a person is skilled/tactical enough, they can beat someone who "counters" them.

ArchivedUser

Most of these arguments hinge on there being 1v1. They have already stated that they realize that certain archetypes will outperform others in certain situations including pvp and have no plan to balance them unless the abilities are breaking group play. Pvp is 90 percent of the time not going to be 1v1 but small group on small group, large group on large group, small group on large group. You run up on someone in the wilderness, he is most likely going to have a friend or 3 in quick response distance. All these brahs who have been chest thumping the forums for the last while are going to be shedding salty tears all over the forums once they get curbstomped for trying "All I wanted to do was 1v1 him and he called his friends, no fair."

ArchivedUser

It depends. The problem with a game that has ambitions like the nodes, giving players control over their own cities and regions, it calls for PvP.
And be it large scale, group, or 1vs1, it has to be good and interesting, giving players the opportunity to tinker with their builds.

Otherwise, the game will fall as quickly as it rises.

Games like Guildwars2, despite some of their other failings, have already shown that the times of selecting a target and rolling off skill-rotations are over. MMO's of tomorrow need a dynamic, interactive skill-system.