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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
The Crafting System
Hey Everyone Viktor here!
So, I normally spend all my time on discord, but making a thread here about crafting today. So in the Pre-PAX stream it came out that we have ballpark a dozen crafting classes (wasn't clear on if this was across all 3 disciplines, or if that is 12 production classes. I'm curious what all these are, and if these 12 are archtypes with specializations rolled into them, or if specializations are separate classes. I also have some general questions about the crafting system itself. Have a look, respond, theorize, beg Steven to comment below!
Crafting Questions -
So, I normally spend all my time on discord, but making a thread here about crafting today. So in the Pre-PAX stream it came out that we have ballpark a dozen crafting classes (wasn't clear on if this was across all 3 disciplines, or if that is 12 production classes. I'm curious what all these are, and if these 12 are archtypes with specializations rolled into them, or if specializations are separate classes. I also have some general questions about the crafting system itself. Have a look, respond, theorize, beg Steven to comment below!
Crafting Questions -
- What are the 12 artisan classes available? For sake of discussion let’s assume these are production classes. For your response feel free to answer with archtypes or specializations as you see fit. For sake of letting Steven know where the interest is, I'd suggest writing down the artisan skills you'd like to see, rather than you expect. Hell, make two lists, have one you expect, have one you want!
- The
concept of a "crafting suite" has been brought up twice now, is
that idea still solidly under consideration? Do we as players like and support this idea,
or are we wanting something more simplistic?
- Regardless of the suite existing, how customizable will Intrepid allow gear to be that's produced by crafters? Are we looking at just swapping some colors, hilts and blades, or more serious levels of modifications? As players what do you feel is an acceptable level of customization? If Steven made you god tomorrow and granted all your customization wishes, what would you ask for?
- Also, if production crafters are going to see the chance to make their marks on goods, what kind of system are we looking at for processors to make that a compelling draw? As players what would get you to consider being a processor over gathering while you wander, or creating production items?
0
Comments
I summon @GMSteven.
My artisan class list –
This is my wanted list, all archtypes (I'm thinking I'll get in on the debate for specializations later). I’d like to see ranged weapons be a separate crafting profession from weaponsmithing, and I’d like to see a wainwright to produce caravans rather than just parts from a blacksmith. Cartographer may not be important, but being able to make detailed maps, provide treasure locations, or improve land and sea trade routes would be neat. I want to see a shipwright for the same reason as wainwright. I think it should be more specific than just blacksmithing, and owning a ship is going to be important to most of us. I want somebody to build me the best / most custom ship possible.
This is just a basic example of how it has been explained, and by no way represents what the actual point totals will be. Realize that you can be the best Shipwright on the server, but you are going to need to buy your mats, have people provide them, or have a shitton of active alts with a definite production plan in place on who gathers, who processes, and who makes what.
I realize that we will need to specialize, which includes making choices within your chosen profession, not just limiting how many you can take. For those of us who remember, the system is going to be somewhat similar to Star Wars Galaxies (was actually a great system). My questions aren't so much related to how much i'll have to dedicate myself to a specific discipline, more as once I've already made that choice, what systems am i working within?
What incentive do we as players have to take processing over production? It doesn't matter that production is dependent on processing if nobody is willing to take it (except on an alt to feed their production)? If you did select production, what's making production in Ashes great again?
I totally get the PAX focus, just throwing out questions because it was stream day, and people had lemented not getting everything asked answered, or poor questions, ect ect. If we have a solid discussion, it gives Steven food for thought. Give him things to discuss for the next stream, or to chat with people about at PAX. No such thing as being too prepared for the next stream. Speaking of which, are any of us audio experts? If so, I hear Steven is accepting applications.
I think it would be nice if one player could gather ore, smelt bars and craft swords and still be efficient. Thats still just thee paths from maybe 36 possible. Being just a crafter can be easily hard or even broken in player driven economy games and that is because materials can be easily more valueable than the finished product and that makes impossible to be just a crafter. So many times crafter needs to be at least partly a gatherer and/or processer to even make some profit and progress. I am actually also interested how devs have this all planned.
- Weaponsmith
- Armorsmith
- Leatherworker
- Fletcher
- Tailor
- Enchanter
- Alchemist
- Breeder
- Carpenter
- Cook
- Jeweler
- ?
1 to 6 are armor and weapon makers. And i guess under carpenter we could put wagon, ship, siege and house crafting. I think you missed cook and i am not sure about cartographer.. but i left the last one open for purpose, to something really needed. ;-)Armor Crafter ( you can make basic armor)
Plate-smith - specialized
- Banded -
- Mail
- Ring
- Plate
Leather-worker specialized
- Hide
- Soft
- Hardened
- Exotic (dragon hide etc)
Tailor - specialized
etc etc etc
anyway someone so specialized in my armor type you can create a relationship with them "Joe if i go get that dragon scale can you turn it into a shield for me ?" but not so no drop it monetizes the entire gear situation.
I love to see it start that way. But i think higher level gear should be specialized or you have crafting that is so generalized every city has 95 heavy armor crafters with the same crap the other 94 have
But i think that this can be done with depth recipe system and with specific crafting quests. And that way crafting itself will be meaningful even some recipes are dropped from dungeons/raids. I hope we will see mixed system where crafters need help from other players, but also ways to get recipes by themselfs. I would love to see hard and long crafting questlines to get some recipes.
While I personally encourage everyone to take part in all aspects of the game, for those you choose the artisan hermit route, I still want to support them in that choice. I don't believe it's honest to tell players "do as you please, it's your world!", and then turn around and create systems that force you into choices.
As far as specializations go, while it is very possible that you could have 95 crafters all offering the exact same pieces, the stats and features of those pieces are going to be different. The important part of finding the right crafter will be seeing who chose to specialize in what stats or bonus item features. For instance the smith that chose to focus on damage reduction is going to attract the tank market, but the smith whose plate focused on crit is going to be more popular with the fighter crowd. Main thing I'm hoping for is that some crafters will be able to find enhancement traits that are very rare / unique. Like Joe Blacksmith may have found a drop plan from a world boss that lets him add regeneration to all his plate, and he's the only smith on the server that can do it. Good thing you're already Joe's friend, as anyone that was a jerk to him now finds themselves out in the cold for the best armour available, that or Joe sells items to them at triple price.
Most (all in my experience) MMOs don't actually have a really compelling crafting system; rather, it's production and mass manufacturing at its heart. Take WoW (I know, I know) for example: Your basic low level crafter of any particular choice has a great big selection of crap they can make. "Ooh, pearl-handled daggers and bronze maces and living ring breeches and so much stuff!" Then, you grind through all of it. Like a factory. Until you reach your pinnacle recipes, which are all standardized. "Ret Pally? You want this <Thing of Thinging>. BM Hunter? You want this <Thing of Thinging>." No variance. No room for flourishes. Just carbon copies of everything everyone else has, and you're only bidding on price with each other.
To hell with that. Realistically (and in fantasy worlds), master craftsmen were capable of making anything great, and producing wares so fine as to be considered works of art while still being functional. Think Hattori Hanzo in Kill Bill: even the mention of his name associated with the rumor of a sword was enough to kill over. That's a Heroic Craftsman.
What I've always wanted was to take the pyramid and turn it on it's head. Instead of having this wide plethora of crap at the bottom and only 5-10 really useful things at the top, instead start like you realistically would: beginning players work in crappy iron, with a few crappy templates, and work your way up. This isn't to say things they make will be useless, but simply restricted. Tailors only know one stitch, weaponsmiths only know single-edged blades, boywers only know one style of fletching, etc.
Points spent could be used for generalization in their profession or other professions entirely, and could be satisfied with a generalist role: perhaps your weaponsmith knows curved blades, asymmetrical bludgeoning weights, and 3-4 axe styles with different materials (combined with different blade and haft styles) to offer a smattering of stat and effect-specific results: Say, curved blades provide bleed effects over epee style blades that provide armor penetration, and yew hafts providing quicker attack speeds over oak's higher crit chance, etc.
A generalist could be ok to good at many things, and be profitable at it. A truly Heroic Crafter would be one that, like Viktor stated above, seclude themselves or dedicate themselves to a particular style, or weapon family, or what have you, and do things nobody else (realistically very few other players that have dedicated similar time and effort) can do.
Say, with a generalist, there might be some materials they sacrificed learning how to utilize in favor of a more broad range of products, but a master would have no restrictions on what could be utilized. Or, for processing, your average processor might be able to provide most or all of the common ores/stones/wood/etc., but a master smelter could create not just more refined product than your average guy, but also provide higher quality of material (like Damascus Steel over just Steel) which, in turn, could be utilized by your average craftsman, but not to it's full potential like it could be under a master craftsman.
This creates a combination of both breadth (many different choices for generalists) and depth (a broader selection of customization and, in turn, notoriety for specialists). Heck, make quests for them: specialists might need to find long-lost reliquaries or something that is single-player restricted and difficult, but not punishing, to complete to obtain 'hidden knowledge' or some other flagging mechanic, and add an extra level of accomplishment to it. Or, make certain effect combinations require rare BoP items to make even the forging of great weapons heroic in itself.
Anyway, that's my 2, um, pages. The person behind the hammer, or pick, or needle, can be just as heroic as the adventurer wearing, or wielding, the final product.
That's what I hope for in an ideal system.
With future development and expansions where you keep adding stuf most of new players will feel lost or it will take them time to find out basic thigs they may need.
It's very tempting to make a lot of options for players but if it takes you more time to find out how to do something then doing it then it is kind a waste of your time.
That and maybe having people log off when you log in your Bounty Hunter...
2. Metal worker
3. Leather worker
4. Tailor
5. Carpenter (includes ship and wagon building based on architect designs)
6. Jeweler
7. Alchemist
8. Enchanter
9. Architect
10. Animal Breeder
11. Cook
12. Machinery (siege weapons, mechanic parts for ships and wagons etc.)
Crafters have millions of possible combinations and possibilities..
The successful ones (or alternatively ones with specific traits) would be discovered through trial and error...and recorded.
These patents/plans could then be leased with royalties to other crafters.
This reimburses the time and effort on the research crafter that grind for hours trying alternative recipes.
This speeds up the crafting process of all the other crafters who dont have to go through the grind process to acquire a recipe with a specific trait. This part of the work has been done for them.
Some 'hint/partial' recipes could of course be found in the wild as the process of discovery.
This would be a great way to give crafting a way to get metals that are hard to find but due to caravan deliveries, they can buy off the armor or weapons and get the ingredient needed to finish their desired product.
Also, I spend more time on discord than the forums if anyone ever wants to say hello!