Regarding the "Combo System"

ArchivedUser

Hello,


In the latest stream*, we saw a glimpse of the keystroke based "combo system" that will be present in Ashes. Let me start off by saying that I really like the idea and believe it can add a lot to the combat.

However, I'm not sure how I feel about it being represented by this small bar with a line moving from one end to another and a small window for when you're supposed to hit a key.

I realize this is all pre-alpha footage and things are subject to change, but wouldn't it be better to have a visual cue on screen instead when you can combo something? Like a slow-motion effect for the skill animation when something can be comboed, or a small flash on screen.

This allows players to keep their eyes on the combat itself, rather than the UI elements.


Just some thoughts 

*Link to the stream: 
Around 18:45

ArchivedUser

I too share your concern. I don't think having to look at the UI bar to strike the key at the correct time is good for situational awareness. It would be okay if the timing was the same each time you use the basic attack, but in the video it occurs at different times each time the combo is started.

ArchivedUser

If I remember from older streams they did say that there will be visual hints within the animation on when to effectively use the combos - however the demo we saw yesterday was pre-alpha as you say but also UI set up for PAX ^^

ArchivedUser

Hi,

I am so happy someone did say this already.
Let me add:

Pls, pls, pls devs let us watch the fight (in this beautiful game to be) and NOT a bar.

I want combat to be reactionary and skillful but I really hope you can do this in a way we will need to focus to combat itself (or characters) and not focus on a bar.

A first (counter/) idea would be something like that:

Instead of a bar, it would be really nice if (lets say for a spell caster) the energy ball created to avatar's hand while casting grew bigger and smaller and player-caster was supposed to hit the button the right time (while the ball is at its peak). It seems like harder than the simple bar, but it would incentivize players to watch their favorite characters (their avatars) and not a bar. 

For non caster classes where energy balls are not so immersive, you maybe can use a "targeting system" like a cross moving around a ball seen above enemy head (it would be so great if this "ball" was the enemy body) and the player should hit the button when the cross is at the most center to get the best bonus. 

Those mechanics would increase character learning curve by a lot. If this proves hard to master, you can decrease the bonus gained from success, so hard core players don't get a crazy advantage over casuals. I imagine those skills (casting/not moving) wont be the "go to" skills of pvp combat and will be one or two every some seconds. 

ArchivedUser

If I recall correctly, this works similar like the combo system in ArcheAge.

At first, you will be looking at the skill bar until you learn which skills unlock which combo, after that you can enjoy the fight and do combos without much thinking.

ArchivedUser

It has been stated over and over, the combat you are seeing at PAX is a possible 20 percent done. The bars to indicate combos may be a PAX only thing to offset them not being able to get the visual cues done in time for the event. The OMG I don't want to have to stare at my UI during combat crowd need to relax and see where they go with all this. Feedback is important, but lets see where they are when we get a statement of "This is combat 80 percent done."

ArchivedUser

Make the combo system animation based. Hitting the right button on the right time on a slider is kinda boring and very basic. For example, if you press the button when the mages hands are on air you will not succeed the combo but when you hit the button when mage puts her hands close in front of her, combo will succeed etc. I don't want to watch the bar or any kind of IU during PvP, i want to watch my character and other things that are happening around me. Don't make the PvP UIvUI please!

People in my guild also mentioned that it will be very easy to make injections to the slider combo system, create an addon who presses the button on the perfect time of the slider.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

It has been stated over and over, the combat you are seeing at PAX is a possible 20 percent done. The bars to indicate combos may be a PAX only thing to offset them not being able to get the visual cues done in time for the event. The OMG I don't want to have to stare at my UI during combat crowd need to relax and see where they go with all this. Feedback is important, but lets see where they are when we get a statement of "This is combat 80 percent done."

Agreed but if we wait for 80% done combat to share our opinions, it will not be any different than the 20% done combat. So there is no harm in proposing improvements or changes even though the combat is 1% done.

ArchivedUser

@AeonAuron People in my guild also mentioned that it will be very easy to make injections to the slider combo system, create an addon who presses the button on the perfect time of the slider.

We will have to see if they loosen their restrictions on the API and allowing addons, but as it stands right now anyone who was using it probably would get picked up by Panopticon and banned. Will just have to wait and see as we get closer to launch. But I don't see them going the WOW route and allowing a slew of third-party addons, or the ESO route and allowing animation cancelling or automated process addons.

My comments about feedback were in no way meant to discourage it, but temper it with actual facts that have been given out by the devs as to where they are going with their vision. Granted, the combat system information given out has been minimal. I watched a thread on flying the other day devolve into pure hyperbole after one person who obviously hadn't read anything or decided to cherry pick what he wanted about the system state that within a year everyone would have flying mounts due to people swapping node mayor/pvp castles and egg drops. And then three other people go full outrage over it. When it was pointed out that nobody gets permanent flying it calmed down.

ArchivedUser

With the word addon i meant the not-allowed ones, hacks. We all know that no game is completely safe of hacks and exploits. No matter how well they implemet their game protection systems, there will always be players using third party programs to do somethings they are not allowed to. Slider-combo system could be one of them and it could be hard for Intrepid to detect it, i don't know, it's probably best to stay away from slider-combo system because of this and many other reasons we mentioned above. But my main concern about this system is fighting a user interface instead of a player.

ArchivedUser

Personally i saw that and my first thought was "Sweet this will be a b***ch for macro-ers to actually pull off!"

The problem that currently exists is that the damm macros are built into the driver ( Razor / Logitec etc ) where its almost impossible to detect a macro input from a skilled player input . I think the advantage of this system is that the "static" time between click or button presses doesn't exist so they will have to find some way to parse either incoming traffic or log or something. That is more easily detected and not built right into the keyboard.

I am sure they will try and find a way around it and most likely will, pvper will obviously be the most effected group. Once one of them gets a successful hack the rest must have it to stay competitive.

ArchivedUser

I agree that the combo bar is not best possible option for its purpose. I also see it distracting to watch combo UI instead of actual battle. I also think it could work more smoothly, at this point it looked kind of clunky.

Yeah i know its just pre-alpha footage, but i still think its good to point these things out before its too late.

I guess making the combo timing base on character animations, sayings, sound effects, personal signs and thimgs like that sounds good suggestion. Also the fight should be more smooth and even you miss one compo part it continues less effective and not just stop like to the wall.