Thank you to all who participated in our August 20 play test! If you joined in, please remember to leave your feedback and bug reports on the forums here: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/categories/apoc-bug-reports

What makes a game..."good"?

Every time I see a new game being developed, I wonder if it will be able to satisfy me.

Unfortunately, games aren't entirely made for me to be satisfied.  There's got to be something that hits the spot, but what is it?

So... What hits the spot for you?

Comments

  • good graphics.

    not over "grindy".

    good PvP.

    no PTW.

    a lot of content updates.
  • First and foremost - a good community.

    Gameplay, content and a competent developer/publisher are next in line.
  • Had this happen just the other day with a game. Sat down to play for a bit, quit after an hour or so, then realized that "hour" was really 6 hours and I hadn't noticed. Pissed the whole day away. So, that is what makes a good game.
  • A game is good when not everything is easy to get. A game where economy is good in every way possible. Most importantly the people you play with cause then every game is good, mostly ;).
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    Good community (A big reason to login)
    Good gameplay (The gameplay needs to feel responsive, and believable.)

    But  depending on the game, there are more. For an MMORPG, I would add the following elements.

    Story (Lore, good storytelling, effect change from choices)
    Classes ( Don't homogenise them, let them feel unique.)
    Balance (In single player, balance is less important. But in MMORPG's balance is important. BUT, there's a caveat! Never balance for 1 v 1. And don't check boxes. Like all classes need to have at least 1 escape, root, stun, cc.) This sort of ties in with the homogenisation argument I mentioned earlier. Oh that Mage's freeze, is essentially the same as the Cleric's chain throw, just different animations)

    AI (Give them goals, both npc's, guards, mobs, everything. Don't just make them wander around a forest aimlessly. Make wolves for example, hunt in packs. And make them actively look for critters to eat. And if an area doesn't have many critters (Maybe due to player intervention) Let them migrate. This makes the world feel "alive"

    I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of it from the top of my head currently.
  • From a MMORPG for me - The community is everything. I find it sad that in recent titles few people communicate outside of guild chat.
    I miss that feeling of "belonging" in a world that had meaning - and feeling excited about getting home to see my community and having some fun and relaxing ^^

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    Chaos!

    well it could be harmless at first glance but chaos is just the beginning 


    ...just the beginning~













    .

    .

    .



  • Good community.
    Greater immersion.

    Big open world.
    Bigger danger.

    State of the art graphics.
    Surprises everywhere.

    Juicy intriguing  quests.
    Just plain old simple fun!






  • Compelling game play that does not repeat after an hour or two.
    Graphics help, but are not a  huge factor for me.
    Character customization, I do not like games where I am playing "Pre named character."
    Re-play-ability, I love starting over once I have mastered a character.
    Story and either on spot Grammar or Voice Acting.
    More humor than gore.
    A game that remains challenging regardless of my character build/level/gear/etc.

  • Big open world.
    Bigger danger.


    By looking at your other comments in various other threads aimed towards PvP community and PvP in general, I wouldn't say you really think what you wrote here.

    Unless you meant "bigger danger, but only from PvE"?
  • Gothix said:

    Big open world.
    Bigger danger.


    By looking at your other comments in various other threads aimed towards PvP community and PvP in general, I wouldn't say you really think what you wrote here.

    Unless you meant "bigger danger, but only from PvE"?
    Danger comes in many forms. PvP is one. PvE is another. No reason to exclude one.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    Gothix said:

    Big open world.
    Bigger danger.


    By looking at your other comments in various other threads aimed towards PvP community and PvP in general, I wouldn't say you really think what you wrote here.

    Unless you meant "bigger danger, but only from PvE"?
      Because I don't join the cry babies afraid of consequences you think I don't enjoy PvP?    You assume too much.   Typical of your kind.  

    I might add that a good game is one where the developers stick to their plans and don't let loud cry babies shout them down till they change things and ruin a good game.
  • What makes a game good?
    Being able to put concepts into action. A game is rubbish if it comes up with the world's most amazing ideas and concepts but can't impliment them. 

    I personally won't play something with shit graphics, so Unreal Engine 4 should be pretty enough for me.. 

    Content. Lots of content. I get bored if end game stuff is just doing the same "raids" over n over again for minimal benefit.

    In my opinion, the reason games are a great success is because when they're being made, they know what they want to be, not because they catered to every little whim the best they can. Example, the most recent Doom game was successful cos it straight up knew it wanted to be, a Doom game. Even if my personal opinion is that the game was shit, it was still a successful game that majority of people liked.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    For me, it's definitely got to have:

    a) That time-machine factor mentioned by @UnknownSystemError: '... Sat down to play for a bit, quit after an hour or so, then realized that "hour" was really 6 hours and I hadn't noticed...' Absolutely!

    b) What helps that to happen is a good plot - not one that leads me by the hand but challenges me in some way...(e.g.) that involves having to perhaps solve a quiz or riddle that'll unlock just a bit more so that I then maybe search an area, or whatever. Nothing too easy, a gradual unfolding.

    c) An immersive world - whether that's my exploring anywhere in a region - encountering fascinating dungeons or cliffs or underwater caverns, say - or a good mooch around a large city, (thus discovering where different shops and crafts and people and additional plotline npcs are).

    d) Having a lot of choices and options re my character and my progression. Can I play as a good or evil type in role? Or simply concentrate on becoming a great crafter?   (Though I have to say, I'm not really interested in how I look - how I can play is far more important to me), Can I switch into other skills easily?

    e) What happens at 'End Game?' E.g. in the original Morrowind in 2003 I concluded the 'Nereverine' main plot but still played a further 300+ hours just exploring, happily.

    f) A new one for me is Community - and feeling I want to get strongly involved with this one in this game - because it seems necessary and fun and vital in a way that it never has before.

    AND (to @Flameh0t) BELOW HERE: Completely agree - sadly I don't have any older system that could now play original Morrowind - but I'd love to!
  • e) What happens at 'End Game?' E.g. in the original Morrowind in 2003 I concluded the 'Nereverine' main plot but still played a further 300+ hours just exploring, happily.
    @Glosterian Morrowind represent lol one of the best games, ever. Wish they'd have actually done a remake for the entire game, expansions included (instead of the ESO expansion) keeping the exact same game, just with better graphics, like the skyrim engine or something.. I'd definitely replay the entire game again!
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    CylverRayne said:

    cry babies afraid of consequences

    typical of your kind 

    This kind of thing is what I'm talking about. You just know how to sort people in groups and then insult particular groups and talk generally in negative and disrespectful way about those people.

    You should go in front of the mirror and take a good hard look. I doub't this will help you realize anything though. I don't think you can be helped.
  • A game is good if I can loose myself playing it and forget the worries of work, family, money .....
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    Gothix said:
    CylverRayne said:

    cry babies afraid of consequences

    typical of your kind 

    This kind of thing is what I'm talking about. You just know how to sort people in groups and then insult particular groups and talk generally in negative and disrespectful way about those people.

    You should go in front of the mirror and take a good hard look. I doub't this will help you realize anything though. I don't think you can be helped.
    What would you call those  that have been crying about the corruption system and how so unfair it is?  
     I said you assume too much.  
     If the name fits you  sweety, wear it..   
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017

    @Gothix, you can't post flamebait, and then complain when you get flamed...

    Lets please try to keep this thread a little bit friendlier :)


    For me, what makes an MMO great (and what is usually lacking) is giving the gamer a feel of having a real meaningful impact on the world.  In most games, you're just a visitor, and what you do doesn't really matter, but some games allow not just for a strong community, but a community that has an impact on the game.   If that aspect is missing from the game, i'll be missing from the game soon too. :disappointed:  
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    1. Suspense and thrill through dynamism. You never really know beforehand what's lurking around any corner.
    Whats the point of going on an adventure if you know what's going to happen ?
    Whats the point of reading the book or seeing the film, if someone has told you the plotline ?
    Why would you be in anyway surprised by 'the expected'... happening ?

    2. The world is alive. Everything that exist has form 'and function' to build intrigue and wonder.
    Why would you wonder, what happens if i do this, what happens if I go there, what happens if I combine these things ?
    Why would you track something, where are they going and why ?
    How can the world feel alive, if it does not react or change its actions; to suit different environmental conditions?
    Games require interaction and the deeper the weave of interconnectedness, the deeper the thought required to comprehend it and the choices that impact upon it.
    Eye candy makes a thing of beauty that can be appreciated in and of itself, but it does not make a game.

    3. Freedom to explore everything, with everyone, everywhere, at any time with any build.
    Why would I play team content if I don't have access to those teams for another 100 levels that will progress another 100 levels before I catch up anyway ?
    Why would I want to team up with someone that is hopelessly underpowered compared to the rest of the team ?
    Why would I want to play with a team where my contributions is next to zero in comparison and my existence meaningless ?
    Why would I want to play content where I am deliberately made underpowered and can never complete it no matter how skilled I am, compared to those with better artificial boosts ?
    Why would I want to play content where I am deliberately made overpowered and the content trivial to the point of AFK and botting ?
    Why would I want to develop instincts, reaction and specialised skills if my artificial boosts make them irrelevant and the game makes my unique skills redundant and irrelevant ?

    4. A cooperative community not a just collection of competing multiplayer groups.
    Why would a dedicated and focused hardcore PvP guild give two shites about the whole community ? They are only interested in hardcore PvP, its promotion and dominance.
    Why would a dedicated and focused hardcore PvE guild give two shites about the whole community ? They are only interested in hardcore PvE, its promotion and dominance.
    Why would a dedicated and focused hardcore RP guild give two shites about the whole community ? They are only interested in having their own private RP world with their own rules too.
    Special interest groups do not reflect the whole community, only an aspect of it.
    They try desperately to mold a game into the environment suited to their personal play-style and the detriment of others, fragmenting the community in the process.
    Everyone's perceptions are clouded by personal bias which forbids them from ever seeing how to accommodate the whole.
    They are incapable of looking through the lenses of alternative views, let alone accommodating them or even judging their true merit.
    Few, if any, are devoid of bias and fewer still, capable of mature discussion.
    So how can you listen to the whole community..if they have been silenced or drowned out by zealous extremists on opposing sides of many fences ?
    Thus the silent majority remains silent and stare at the parent, as their unruly children stamp their feet and scream unchecked.
    Boundaries are required and their enforcement ruthless and rigorous, or those boundaries will forever be pushed back into the realm of chaos.



  • Special interest groups do not reflect the whole community, only an aspect of it.
    They try desperately to mold a game into the environment suited to their personal play-style and the detriment of others, fragmenting the community in the process.
    Everyone's perceptions are clouded by personal bias which forbids them from ever seeing how to accommodate the whole.
    They are incapable of looking through the lenses of alternative views, let alone accommodating them or even judging their true merit.
    Few, if any, are devoid of bias and fewer still, capable of mature discussion.
    So how can you listen to the whole community..if they have been silenced or drowned out by zealous extremists on opposing sides of many fences ?
    Thus the silent majority remains silent and stare at the parent, as their unruly children stamp their feet and scream unchecked.
    Boundaries are required and their enforcement ruthless and rigorous, or those boundaries will forever be pushed back into the realm of chaos.



    This can be very applicable life in general.

    For me what makes a game is
    1. The "fun factor" of the mechanics if the basic play is fun then it has replayability

    2. For mmos it's how well the game is geared towards community and the community itself

    3. Adaptive world, a world that changes based on the impact of the player/community
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    Here's my list, from what I can think of, through analysis of my own likes and dislikes.

    Living changing world (to prevent repetition, which kills everything)
    Everything needs a continual purpose
    Challenging game to prevent boredom
    Economy
    Community
    Graphics - it's hard to go backwards
    Fast, as realistic as possible, combat (even in a fantasy game with spells)


    Here's a story of 2 games

    I'll use this as an example since it's recent experience for me.

    Playing Everquest 1 on a Time Locked Progression Server vs playing Black Desert Online.

    Considering EQ1 was released in 1999, I would still choose to play EQ1 over BDO if EQ1 did not have a monthly payment attached to it.

    Why?

    Combat in BDO, as pretty as it is, is initially fun BUT because you get almost all of your spells very early on, it actually becomes very repetitive and dull.  Nothing new to see here.  Combat is not challenging.  No risk assessment required.  I can run into a swarm of mobs and kill them all by pressing the same buttons I press every other time I do this, which is quite frequent.  So what ends up happening is, everything quickly becomes repetitive, from abilities to what is required of you to do.  That drives me in the direction of boredom and it's pretty much a loner game because its so damn easy.  This happened to me way faster than it did in EQ, so there has to be a reason for it.

    Everquest 1 is by no means any better, BUT when compared to BDO, EQ carries an element of risk in combat, which requires and forces people to cooperate.  I actually have to evaluate the situation.  In addition to that, spells and abilities are released as you gain levels, creating something to look forward to.  In BDO, it's the same spell, you just choose if you upgrade it or not.  Everquest does eventually become very repetitive as well.  Mob levels in zones force players to fight in higher and higher level zones to gain experience as they level, leaving mostly "ghost zones" once your population is mostly at max level.  As a result, you end up fighting in the same place, all the time, over and over, and it becomes boring.  Once you're max level and have all your abilities, the abilities you use pretty much become static and there's nothing to look forward to in terms of increasing your abilities, but at least you'll need to swap out spells here and there for different situations.  I'd be ok with no spell-use limitation, like BDO, if EQ had it.  BDO needs more spells and they need to be released over time.  Part of the fun, in EQ, is searching for the spells.  Who can teach you this spell, who can teach you that spell.  Researching spells when necessary via component collection.  Not just, all of a sudden, learning the spell out of thin air because you dinged.  One decent thing that keeps people going in EQ are the rare item drops from camps, but that is mainly due to the economy.  Eventually, all you have left is the economy, and not everyone is a trader.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    What makes a game good?  Well strictly speaking MMOS.

    In summary, what I think makes a good game:
    (Explanations of each will follow under the list)

    -The Holy Trinity of roles.

    -Skills that evolve and rank up, to which makes an infinite number of builds based on player preference and how much time the player sunk in using said abilities.  

    -Stat Distribution done by players and not programmed in per level.

    -Equipment being valuable and no set or piece is the best for any and all builds.

    -Community needs to thrive.

    -Commerce needs depth and direct playability.

    -Quests

    -Achievements that are in-depth, hidden, and valuable to the point where players can gain stats and perks that completely change how they play so no two builds are ever the same nor of the same strength.  

    -Graphics

    The HOLY TRINITY of classes in terms of roles.  (TANK, HEALER, DAMAGE)
    You could make it a Holy Quartet by adding a Support role.  But in my eyes, it needs to be STRICT support spells for the class overall.  Examples being all the different types of movement impairment spell/skills, or damage buffing spells for other party members and possibly even spells that have a proc counter tied to damage.  Meaning cast said spell on enemy, each time you or someone in your party hits said enemy there would be a burst of damage.  Granted it would only be like 5 hits per spell cast but something that just compounds damage, and on top of that having some way to empower support spells such as the one previously mentioned.  Example of empowerment being your sitting in the back of the party holding a channeling spell and the longer it channels the more effective it is, however the longer you channel the easier it is to break the spell when struck.

    Skills:  First, there are many skills and second, the skills rank up in potency.  AND preferably they rank up indefinitely, or at least up to some outrageous number.  So in the long run all builds that people use would be different based on their style of play.  
    Another thing to tie in with this would be at certain ranks maybe the spell/skill mutates and you gain some random bonus effects.  The effects can range from a slight buff to the skill being used or a buff if you use a certain skill afterwards, or even turn the skill from a quick cast to a channeled skill and it ends up doing some kind of random effect during the channel per second.

    Stat Distribution:  I SERIOUSLY wish more games would bring back is actual PLAYER stat distribution.  Your overall stats are distributed by YOU and not a random program forcing a equal spread so you can survive.  Some people myself included like playing squishy characters that can blow the shit right out of an enemy in a single hit, pardon my french but you get the idea.

    Loot/Equips:  The loot and/or the personal equipment that you are using for your character needs to have meaning behind it.  There needs to be many different types so the game doesn't come down to one particular gear set trumps all.  Or end game gear is all the same, and even more importantly there needs to be diversity with critical strike chance builds.  Meaning at the end game the best build isn't ALWAYS Critical strike Chance with a ton of Damage.  There needs to be potential for builds without Criticals to thrive.  And of course going along with Criticals, if there is such a thing as a pet build they need to be applicable for criticals as well.

    Community:  Needs to be good/helpful and not forced into tomfoolery and ballsacery based on game content.  Granted people will be people, not much you can do.

    Commerce:   Needs to have depth, stages, and ranks/levels.  There needs to be a way for the PLAYER to potentially be a honest to God Merchant.  Without the need for leveling up mind you.  Example being the more a player buys and sells in a certain town/area going to and fro towns there needs to be some kind of ranking up system involved and eventually making it so said player can buy CHEAPER and sell HIGHER the more experience they have doing what they do.  And maybe even some surprise mercantile quests transferring goods from one place to another which could end up netting a higher payload or potentially merchant styled equipment specifically tailored to assisting in what you do best with maybe just a few combat bonus'.  This gear would also only be limited by your merchant ranks rather than your actual level.  And last but not least on this topic it may also open up new routes of trade for new towns.  

    Quests:  The way I see quests in an MMO.  Yes sure some can be just flat out given and completely noticeable via a quest marker above a NPC's head.  HOWEVER I think there should also be hidden quests that you need to find.  Be it by talking to certain NPC's or finding a random hidden portal that leads to a nondescript location that has some dead messenger and a random item of great value that needs to be delivered in a timely fashion or some kind of world event in the future may go horribly wrong.
    Basically Quests in my eyes should mostly be hidden until found, they need to be interactive beyond the usual "accept quest, go here, kill these, turn in quest, quest becomes escort, protect dude, finish quest."  Some are fine but when there is nothing but them...
    Quests need depth, and need to be enjoyable.  Furthermore some need to be hard enough where you can fail and maybe never get the quest again and potentially ruin reputations.  Quests need to be able to start/end Faction wars. server wars, world bosses, etc. etc.  I can go on but I think I made my point.

    And here is the HUGE one.

    Achievements:  Need to be included HOWEVER not the way most games include them.
    There should be an Achievement logbook like thing for viewing when in game.  HOWEVER the Achievements should be completely hidden until you successfully complete them.  On top of that once they are visible to you the only thing they tell you is the name of the achievement how many points it gives you, a percentage of players that also have said achievement, the stats and perks you received for completing it.  
    Now you maybe wondering what I mean by points, stats and perks.  And that's a good question.  I suggest a style of achievements that we mainly hear of in Litrpg novels, and I will explain the points, stats and perks now.  
    The points would be some kind of FAME or HONOR points.  These points you can use for a specific in game item store where the only currency are these points.  These purchasable goods should be preferably GOOD goods, such as stat boosting potions, skill rank up potions etc. etc. and not some random cheap cosmetics.  
    The Stats are simple enough, you do some kind of achievement that requires you to travel between towns carrying an outrageously heavy load which in turn makes you overburdened and super slow and ends up taking 2 hours just to make it from town to town like 5 times.  Gain +50 to Strength and Agility, and double your current inventory capacity.  Or something of this nature.  And since the Achievements are initially hidden you wouldn't know of the inventory capacity being doubled or the stat boosts.
    As for the perks I kinda already tied one into the last explanation for the stats but another example, if you take the Merchant route through the game, you gain a random Achievement after trading between certain towns after a number of times, where your movement speed while on the road betwixt either town would be increased by a certain amount.  And if this particular Achievement had a ranking system with it, and for the sake of explanation let's call the Achievement:  Travelling Merchant.  So Travelling Merchant::R2 for rank 2.  By hitting this second rank the towns to which the player is trading begin to open up buildings that can be purchased and then used as shops.  This way the player can just bring goods to his own shop to sell and make more income/hour based on both, if an another player purchases something from it OR a basic income if the NPC's buy something.  (Granted they wouldn't actually buy anything, it's merely a self sustaining shop that generates income slowly to reward the player for finding this particular Achievement)
    With this however if the player wants the slow income from the NPC's there needs to be a minimum of 3 items for sale in the shop at any given point.  And the prices are fixed based on predetermined amounts by the actual value of the item with a range of up to 25% more or less or free.  This way there will no be longer any OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive items on a marketplace such as in almost any other MMO that uses player commerce.  

    On another side-note these Achievements should be delayed by a few hours to a few days from when you actually get them.  This is to ensure that unless the Name of the Achievement gives it away the players will not know when or how they achieved them.  This is to hopefully prevent people from making Achievement guides showing anyone how they obtained their super nice perks and stats.  Of course there maybe some die-hard people making Achievement guides and if they really want to spend outrageous amounts of time trying to make a guide then more power to them.  Because I think that is an Achievement in and of itself.  Bit Masochistic but hey who am I to judge.  

    So Achievements done this way would mean the devs could make an infinite number of Achievements and 3/4 of them could be super trivial things.  Like there was litter in the streets of some town that you could pick up and throw away.  Do that 100 times and receive 20 Constitution and Luck and cut Damage per Second effects by 10% for being such a clean and conscientious player.  Or you heard in the background ambiance that some kid is trying to find shells to form a necklace for his mothers birthday.  So you collect 50 shells by a river bank or something of that nature and bring them to the kid after you find him again.  Gain +25% more (w/e the Currency is) whenever your trade items that NPC want when you deliver goods between towns or in your shops.  Random goodies like that.
    The best part of this is that the devs could even out source a request to the community asking for random Achievement ideas.  Saying no suggestion is stupid.  After maybe a week they could implement some and constantly keep updating the game to potentially improve a players overall stats.  Ofc though credit for an Achievement that they used would NOT be given.  The whole point is to initially be a secret.  If a select few people wish to connect the dots more power to them but to the average player they will be none the wiser.

    Graphics:  Though I do love graphically stimulating games, if the game itself is fantastic the graphics are merely an added bonus to an already great game.

    There are a ton of ideas I'd love to have in what I would consider a GOOD game but I think my novel here is pretty long as is, and I think I may have overdone it a bit.  

    If you actually read through my novel here what do you all think?
Sign In or Register to comment.