Undead/Evil Dark themed Race?

ArchivedUser

@Mordy writes:

I don't know why but I am one of those people that always like to play the somewhat bad guy. I was wondering if maybe ashes of creation will have like a Undead race or some type of dark character race. If it hasn't been suggested let me be the first to do so I'm sure I'm not the only one out there that likes to play that dark sinister-looking character. Ever since I've been playing MMOs I never quite as much enjoyed nice squeaky looking humans and elves always been a Dark Wraith kind of guy. So what do you all think would you like to see a type of Undead or similar race? Share your ideas below ????

ArchivedUser

Hmmm although I usually think undead races are pretty cool - I don't think it will be something we see soon.

So we got Tulnar : Tulnar are the evolutionary race of those that didn't escape the calamity of what destroyed the old world. Through genetic mutation from being in the Underrealm (the safest place there was)  the Tulnar became to be a mutation of Human/Reptile/Mammal.

Corruption is basically the worlds "darkness" and is seeks to undo creation - so possibly way down the line there could be an expansion where some races (Human, Dwarf, Elf, Orc, Tulnar) somehow become "corrupted" and control it - thus becoming an "undoing" of their race ^^

ArchivedUser

Odds are you won't see it from a lore standpoint from what little we know. The world was evacuated aeons ago by the gods, who have now decided to come back and fight the corruption that cause the original apocalypse. So that is why the 4 different races are coming through the portals. The extra added race that we got as a stretch goal is the underrealm Tulnar, who with the activity are now coming to the surface. This probably qualifies in their mind as your "dark" race. Could there be some pocket of undead even further down? Maybe. But you aren't going to see them for a few years at least once the game has been live for awhile and they have worked out all the kinks and balance issues they are going to have for the first couple years. With the emphasis on racials not being just fluff, why they would throw something else in to unbalance what is already going to be a monumental task is probably too big an ask.

ArchivedUser

I would love to see a "Dark" elf race, lizard men and other corrupted type races to play. It would add to players "incentives" to PVP if there were races that were inherently "evil" or corrupted to wage war on other civilizations attempting to cleanse the corruption from the world. Unless they would view them as factions which they are trying to avoid. Then I suppose they would want to avoid such races.

ArchivedUser

Without racial factions, Ashes of creation really needs an additional system to distinguish the good/evil alignment aspect of the game, which I think is what the OP is describing with regards to aesthetics. I share his concerns.

As has been raised, there are no inherently dark/evil races in Ashes, but there is a concept of corruption, which is referenced in the lore as the force that originally caused the races to leave Verra. There is also a reference to the same notion in the flagging rules for PvP, where it denotes that PK griefing is also a form of "corruption".

I don't think Intrepid have thought this through yet, because these are quite different concepts. To explain what I mean, I will use terminology from D&D, where there are two different axes of character alignment, not just one.

• The chaotic/lawful axis is a continuum between lawlessness and rigid obedience. 
• The good/evil axis describes behaviors that range from altruistic to psychopathic.

The combination of these two axes produce a rich landscape for lore and character development that has fulled D&D and many other games for decades.

I believe that PK griefing in Ashes signifies a disregard for the rules of conduct and therefore describes a chaotic/lawful axis, which is what the Ashes flagging system derives from in Lineage II.
 
My suggestion is to utilize a PvE system that allows players to develop their good/evil alignment through quests that give the players choice to behave in the desired manner; and rewards them with skins and effects that helps to imbue their characters with the appropriate appearance.

Finally, I think the terminology should be changed to ensure that good vs evil (earned through PvE) is distinct from chaotic/corrupt (earned through PvP).

ArchivedUser

Crepidus said:

I would love to see a "Dark" elf race, lizard men and other corrupted type races to play. It would add to players "incentives" to PVP if there were races that were inherently "evil" or corrupted to wage war on other civilizations attempting to cleanse the corruption from the world. Unless they would view them as factions which they are trying to avoid. Then I suppose they would want to avoid such races.

I would think that would lean toward a faction type situation. They were very clear they didn't want that, and personally I enjoy games and stories that try to stay away from that whole good vs bad vibe. "Grey" storylines add a whole new, more realistic, dimension and I'm looking forward to diving into this factionless world.

ArchivedUser

Yeah. Factions are made by player choice.
No one is preset good/evil/lawful/chaotic.
Thats determined by their actions in game.
Its also relative.
One groups angel is another groups demon.

ArchivedUser

The Orc races, from a model design standpoint are very close to Uruk'hai and Snaga orcs from tolkien. I think it would be a blast to RP them as evil.

ArchivedUser

Tulnar are the closest to being affected by Corruption - they are still able to choose their moral paths...unlike the Sladeborne.

Nothing stopping you from playing your characters as evil, but that is a personal decision.
I do hope there will be player skins for undead, as there are for demons and angels.
I hope we the character creation will be robust enough to make our characters appear to be villainous... and that players have access to emotes and movement animations that reflect villainous personalities (even if the character is truly heroic).
All makes for more layered role-playing.

ArchivedUser

lexmax said:

I believe that PK griefing in Ashes signifies a disregard for the rules of conduct and therefore describes a chaotic/lawful axis, which is what the Ashes flagging system derives from in Lineage II.
 
My suggestion is to utilize a PvE system that allows players to develop their good/evil alignment through quests that give the players choice to behave in the desired manner; and rewards them with skins and effects that helps to imbue their characters with the appropriate appearance.

Finally, I think the terminology should be changed to ensure that good vs evil (earned through PvE) is distinct from chaotic/corrupt (earned through PvP).

Griefing is not a form of Corruption. Killing non-combatants causes a character to gain Corruption. That act makes the character susceptible to a curse.
Good, Evil, Chaotic and Lawful are all distinct from Corrupted.

ArchivedUser

You can bet the there are going to be skins for just about anything the players want or can imagine that doesn't go too far out from their intended setting. Last thing we need is guys in thongs with fantasy AKs running around because they bought the nude stripper skin that was voted in. And the Furries, omg, the Furries. They are going to have to make money from the shop somehow, with no p2win, that means a plethora of goods, not just the same horse recolored 50 times. "Azure steed, now in Light Magenta, or Dark Magenta. 49.99" just isn't going to get them where they need to go.

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

lexmax said:

I believe that PK griefing in Ashes signifies a disregard for the rules of conduct and therefore describes a chaotic/lawful axis, which is what the Ashes flagging system derives from in Lineage II.
 
My suggestion is to utilize a PvE system that allows players to develop their good/evil alignment through quests that give the players choice to behave in the desired manner; and rewards them with skins and effects that helps to imbue their characters with the appropriate appearance.

Finally, I think the terminology should be changed to ensure that good vs evil (earned through PvE) is distinct from chaotic/corrupt (earned through PvP).

Griefing is not a form of Corruption. Killing non-combatants causes a character to gain Corruption. That act makes the character susceptible to a curse.
Good, Evil, Chaotic and Lawful are all distinct from Corrupted.

The system in Lineage II, which the Ashes flagging system is based on, describes it as follows:

PvP gameplay is identified through a color-coded system and is mitigated by the Reputation system. The name of any character who attacks another player turns purple (aggressive), and this also applies to anyone who attacks an aggressive player. Players do not receive penalties for attacking and defeating aggressive characters. However, when attacking and killing characters that are neutral (white colored names), the player's Reputation points and PK count increase and the player becomes a Chaotic character.

Corruption = Chaotic 

ArchivedUser

The Lineage II system is not Ashes lore.
Chaotic in Lineage II is not the same thing as Corrupted in Ashes.
And sounds like Chaotic in Lineage II is not the same thing as Chaotic in D&D.

ArchivedUser

Diura said:

Hmmm although I usually think undead races are pretty cool - I don't think it will be something we see soon.

So we got Tulnar : Tulnar are the evolutionary race of those that didn't escape the calamity of what destroyed the old world. Through genetic mutation from being in the Underrealm (the safest place there was)  the Tulnar became to be a mutation of Human/Reptile/Mammal.

Corruption is basically the worlds "darkness" and is seeks to undo creation - so possibly way down the line there could be an expansion where some races (Human, Dwarf, Elf, Orc, Tulnar) somehow become "corrupted" and control it - thus becoming an "undoing" of their race ^^

Actually, there has been nothing mentioned about the Tulnar being a single, mutated race. I keep hearing this assumption being made.

From the AoC site:

Standing for “the forgotten”, this new race will be in the game from day one. Tulnar consists of multiple races that once existed in the world. These races were left behind as the Tulnar moved to the Underrealm to save their people from the threats of world.

The Tulnar are a conglomeration of the races left behind and banded together in one place, under one banner for survival, kind of like America   Also while some of those races might be able to interbreed, others like reptiles and mammals would be totally separate from each other and remain so even if eons have passed.  Over time they might all develop some common traits like infra-vision but they have not afaik, become some single amalgamation race that splits out random mutations (sorry but I find that concept trite and demeaning)

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

The Lineage II system is not Ashes lore.
Chaotic in Lineage II is not the same thing as Corrupted in Ashes.
And sounds like Chaotic in Lineage II is not the same thing as Chaotic in D&D.

I think you are missing my point: Corruption in the lore (the reason why the races left Verra) is a different concept to being red flagged in PvP. One describes an emergent evil, one describes lawlessness. Trying to lump these two different facets into one concept is limiting in terms of character and story development.

Playing a lawless character who is not inherently evil (Robin Hood) is just as valid as playing a character that is inherently evil with a rigid system of ideals (Voldemort); or any other point on that spectrum. Limiting the degrees of freedom to one axis of good vs bad (non-corrupt vs corrupt) is counter to diversity in the lore and in the game.

This is why I am proposing that there be two axes of "alignment" rather than one, such as there are in D&D and other games. Please also note that by alignment I am talking about purely lore oriented character development, not some kind of factional system.

I will create a new post on this topic at some point.

ArchivedUser

Rune_Relic said:

Yeah. Factions are made by player choice.
No one is preset good/evil/lawful/chaotic.
Thats determined by their actions in game.
Its also relative.
One groups angel is another groups demon.

Pretty much exactly what I think.

Every race/player has the decision to be good or evil. And Good and Evil can mean many things in different situations. Not sacrificing a baby during the harvest festival and thus bringing a poor harvest to the land, may be evil.. or.. doing it may be. Paying off pvp players to not attack your caravan, is that evil? Attacking a caravan, is that evil? or are you just trying to get gear for your guild so you can hold out against someone else attacking you? Killing the local treants for their special wood.. evil? In a game where players can help construct the node, and the narrative, it also allows constructing the social norms and philosophies.  

ArchivedUser

lexmax said:

Dygz said:

The Lineage II system is not Ashes lore.
Chaotic in Lineage II is not the same thing as Corrupted in Ashes.
And sounds like Chaotic in Lineage II is not the same thing as Chaotic in D&D.

I think you are missing my point: Corruption in the lore (the reason why the races left Verra) is a different concept to being red flagged in PvP. One describes an emergent evil, one describes lawlessness. Trying to lump these two different facets into one concept is limiting in terms of character and story development.

Playing a lawless character who is not inherently evil (Robin Hood) is just as valid as playing a character that is inherently evil with a rigid system of ideals (Voldemort); or any other point on that spectrum. Limiting the degrees of freedom to one axis of good vs bad (non-corrupt vs corrupt) is counter to diversity in the lore and in the game.

This is why I am proposing that there be two axes of "alignment" rather than one, such as there are in D&D and other games. Please also note that by alignment I am talking about purely lore oriented character development, not some kind of factional system.

I will create a new post on this topic at some point.

I am not missing your point. I disagree with your point.
Corruption for killing non-combatants is part and parcel of the Corruption that caused the exodus. It is part of that same curse.
Corruption from killing non-combatants is not about Lawlessness. And is not about Evil.
Corruption is a curse. Corruption is an affliction.

Playing a Lawless character is separate from being cursed with Corruption.
Playing an Evil character is separate from being cursed with Corruption.
Again, Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic are all different from Corruption.

Corruption is like when Tyler Lockwood turns into a werewolf once he kills an innocent human.
Has nothing to do with whether Tyler is Good, Evil, Lawful or Chaotic.
Tyler was Lawful Neutral. He killed an innocent human by accident.
The curse doesn't care about alignment.

In Ashes, characters don't gain Corruption because they are lawless; they gain Corruption when they kill non-combatants.
Corruption has nothing to do with any kind of alignment whatsoever.

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

lexmax said:

Dygz said:

The Lineage II system is not Ashes lore.
Chaotic in Lineage II is not the same thing as Corrupted in Ashes.
And sounds like Chaotic in Lineage II is not the same thing as Chaotic in D&D.

I think you are missing my point: Corruption in the lore (the reason why the races left Verra) is a different concept to being red flagged in PvP. One describes an emergent evil, one describes lawlessness. Trying to lump these two different facets into one concept is limiting in terms of character and story development.

Playing a lawless character who is not inherently evil (Robin Hood) is just as valid as playing a character that is inherently evil with a rigid system of ideals (Voldemort); or any other point on that spectrum. Limiting the degrees of freedom to one axis of good vs bad (non-corrupt vs corrupt) is counter to diversity in the lore and in the game.

This is why I am proposing that there be two axes of "alignment" rather than one, such as there are in D&D and other games. Please also note that by alignment I am talking about purely lore oriented character development, not some kind of factional system.

I will create a new post on this topic at some point.

I am not missing your point. I disagree with your point.
Corruption for killing non-combatants is part and parcel of the Corruption that caused the exodus. It is part of that same curse.
Corruption from killing non-combatants is not about Lawlessness. And is not about Evil.
Corruption is a curse. Corruption is an affliction.

Playing a Lawless character is separate from being cursed with Corruption.
Playing an Evil character is separate from being cursed with Corruption.
Again, Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic are all different from Corruption.

Corruption is like when Tyler Lockwood turns into a werewolf once he kills an innocent human.
Has nothing to do with whether Tyler is Good, Evil, Lawful or Chaotic.
Tyler was Lawful Neutral. He killed an innocent human by accident.
The curse doesn't care about alignment.

In Ashes, characters don't gain Corruption because they are lawless; they gain Corruption when they kill non-combatants.
Corruption has nothing to do with any kind of alignment whatsoever.

Whatever you believe corruption to be, I'm surprised you have such a strong opinion on what it is since the lore has not been officially released yet.

In Ashes, gaining PvP corruption is through player choice to murder people. Murder is a canonically lawless behavior. I'm not even sure why you would want to argue this point.

The OP wishes to know if there are mechanics in-game to take on a dark/evil appearance. PvP corruption is perhaps one such mechanic, but for the many of us who play dark/evil characters who do not want to PK murder people, we are asking for a non-cosmetic shop way to achieve this.

So far, hints have been given that this will be attainable through your religious affiliation. I can't wait to find out more about this.

ArchivedUser

System said:

@Mordy writes:

I don't know why but I am one of those people that always like to play the somewhat bad guy. I was wondering if maybe ashes of creation will have like a Undead race or some type of dark character race. If it hasn't been suggested let me be the first to do so I'm sure I'm not the only one out there that likes to play that dark sinister-looking character. Ever since I've been playing MMOs I never quite as much enjoyed nice squeaky looking humans and elves always been a Dark Wraith kind of guy. So what do you all think would you like to see a type of Undead or similar race? Share your ideas below ????

I'm thinking of wair cats. Predator cats that can take the form of any player race to. Hide among them. There could be communities of these with artisans, shop owners even have player classes. Just imagine a ranger wair-cat tiger or a panther rouge. Any thoughts on this?

ArchivedUser

Vanth said:

System said:

@Mordy writes:

I don't know why but I am one of those people that always like to play the somewhat bad guy. I was wondering if maybe ashes of creation will have like a Undead race or some type of dark character race. If it hasn't been suggested let me be the first to do so I'm sure I'm not the only one out there that likes to play that dark sinister-looking character. Ever since I've been playing MMOs I never quite as much enjoyed nice squeaky looking humans and elves always been a Dark Wraith kind of guy. So what do you all think would you like to see a type of Undead or similar race? Share your ideas below ????

I'm thinking of wair cats. Predator cats that can take the form of any player race to. Hide among them. There could be communities of these with artisans, shop owners even have player classes. Just imagine a ranger wair-cat tiger or a panther rouge. Any thoughts on this?

Their a race with a bad reputation and hunted. They could Chang shape at will save for the thee day cycle of the full moon when they're locked on cat form...

ArchivedUser

PlagueMonk said:

Diura said:

Hmmm although I usually think undead races are pretty cool - I don't think it will be something we see soon.

So we got Tulnar : Tulnar are the evolutionary race of those that didn't escape the calamity of what destroyed the old world. Through genetic mutation from being in the Underrealm (the safest place there was)  the Tulnar became to be a mutation of Human/Reptile/Mammal.

Corruption is basically the worlds "darkness" and is seeks to undo creation - so possibly way down the line there could be an expansion where some races (Human, Dwarf, Elf, Orc, Tulnar) somehow become "corrupted" and control it - thus becoming an "undoing" of their race ^^

Actually, there has been nothing mentioned about the Tulnar being a single, mutated race. I keep hearing this assumption being made.

From the AoC site:

Standing for “the forgotten”, this new race will be in the game from day one. Tulnar consists of multiple races that once existed in the world. These races were left behind as the Tulnar moved to the Underrealm to save their people from the threats of world.

The Tulnar are a conglomeration of the races left behind and banded together in one place, under one banner for survival, kind of like America   Also while some of those races might be able to interbreed, others like reptiles and mammals would be totally separate from each other and remain so even if eons have passed.  Over time they might all develop some common traits like infra-vision but they have not afaik, become some single amalgamation race that splits out random mutations (sorry but I find that concept trite and demeaning)

Excellent point. I agree.

ArchivedUser

lexmax said:
In Ashes, gaining PvP corruption is through player choice to murder people. Murder is a canonically lawless behavior. I'm not even sure why you would want to argue this point.

The OP wishes to know if there are mechanics in-game to take on a dark/evil appearance. PvP corruption is perhaps one such mechanic, but for the many of us who play dark/evil characters who do not want to PK murder people, we are asking for a non-cosmetic shop way to achieve this.

So far, hints have been given that this will be attainable through your religious affiliation. I can't wait to find out more about this.

Where in the canon of Ashes does it state that murder is lawless behavior?
We will be "murdering" a whole bunch of NPCs and not gaining corruption for being lawless.

You can be dark and evil without killing non-combatants.
You can be light and good and kill NPC non-combatants without gaining Corruption.
Gaining Corruption indicates you are Corrupted - you could be Evil or you could be Good.

I understand what the OP is asking for.
I'm just saying that being Corrupted in Ashes has nothing to do with Alignment.
I agree there should be ways to appear dark/evil/villainous/diseased/ill - regardless of whether the character is actually any of those things.
Just as characters who appear to be light/good/heroic/healthy actually might not be any of those things.
But that is all separate from being cursed by Corruption for killing PC non-combatants.

ArchivedUser

PlagueMonk said:

The Tulnar are a conglomeration of the races left behind and banded together in one place, under one banner for survival, kind of like America   Also while some of those races might be able to interbreed, others like reptiles and mammals would be totally separate from each other and remain so even if eons have passed.  Over time they might all develop some common traits like infra-vision but they have not afaik, become some single amalgamation race that splits out random mutations (sorry but I find that concept trite and demeaning)

The old races have interbred into one race - genetically.
Each Tulnar is an amalgamation of reptile and mammal genes.
Because magic exists on Verra, along with science.

ArchivedUser

I like when Evil is outcome of your choices not some children like design.

ArchivedUser

prejt said:

I like when Evil is outcome of your choices not some children like design.

Have you played tyranny? If you like that sort of thing its a game worth looking at