Bartering is something players can done if they want to and i am sure it will also happen at least inside smaller communities. But bartering should not be the official trading system, because i just cant see anyone can create healthy economical system around it.
Its quite common style to make humanoid mobs to drop money. It makes sense and it can be done way that those wont everytime drop the full amount of money and that way it discourages to repeatly kill the same mobs. Once mob is killed and it respwans a little bit later, it has just that minimum amount of money which raises with time towards to maximum amount if that mob is not killed. So its quite easy to control money coming into the game and really easy to adjust if needed.
Do you think african and american tribes exchange coin when dividing labour ? Do you think coin has always existed and community did not exist without it ? Oh how the modern world makes me cringe A world without Coin ? HERESY! It exists purely to enforce hierarchy.
It'd be interesting if you got a gold infusion when you level up, and once you hit 50, adios gold infusions.
Crafting and selling to NPCs should and could be a way to generate income as well. You could also have either personal or global diminishing returns on items. If you or a bunch of people keep selling level 1 swords, they become worthless. PvPers get their wealth then from looting your caravans.
Mining ore to turn into money is a interesting idea, but I wouldn't want to mine all day long just to make some money, I'd rather grind for it (raw money) or make money by crafting and selling for profit or trading.
If you could turn ore into coins I could see the Guilds fighting for the best mining spots, that would be interesting. But I prefer mob drops.
Bartering is something players can done if they want to and i am sure it will also happen at least inside smaller communities. But bartering should not be the official trading system, because i just cant see anyone can create healthy economical system around it.
Its quite common style to make humanoid mobs to drop money. It makes sense and it can be done way that those wont everytime drop the full amount of money and that way it discourages to repeatly kill the same mobs. Once mob is killed and it respwans a little bit later, it has just that minimum amount of money which raises with time towards to maximum amount if that mob is not killed. So its quite easy to control money coming into the game and really easy to adjust if needed.
Do you think african and american tribes exchange coin when dividing labour ? Do you think coin has always existed and community did not exist without it ? Oh how the modern world makes me cringe A world without Coin ? HERESY! It exists purely to enforce hierarchy.
Pulling the real life aspect for this matter is stupid. Making player driven economy to work without currency is really hard or even impossible to get work reasonable way. Its about game mechanic, not what it has been in past.
Please explain how removing gold drops from mobs will stop botting.
There will be gathering bots, mining bots.. Name it and there will be someone writing a tool or bot for it. It has nothing to do with gold drops from mobs.
Also, I never stated that gold drops would be the main source of income, rather that mobs should also drop gold because mining ore to turn into money as a main way to make money is not convenient.
I'd rather do something more meaningful with my gametime, eg. farming mobs for crafting materials, and it wouldn't hurt to get a coin or two while doing it.
Besides, the above suggested idea of mining ore to turn into money is even a worse idea if you're afraid of botters.
In addition to mobs not dropping gold, gathering should work with mechanics that bot aren't able to automatize.
There is never only one thing that solves everything, but many things one next to other, can.
Mobs not dropping gold is just one needed thing. And then add to that various mechanics to other parts of game that bots can't automatize.
Your logic "because 1 step alone isn't enough to solve bots, than why care at all" is horrible.
Money dropping from humanoids, and being available in dungeon encounters, is really standard and expected and fits perfectly with the game world. This mechanic coupled with money from quest-givers is really traditional, and I can't see this changing in Ashes.
The moment you design basic game mechanics around cheaters is the moment your game design goes out the window. With some of the comments that have been made regarding security and availability of API, addons and mods I don't see the Ashes team designing the whole game with the mindset of "how can someone bot this activity?".
To help deal with rapid inflation I think it may help if NPC merchants had a limited purse. This way players just can't dump drops to generate ????. And/or have items have a trade value to each merchant so if a player wants an item from the NPC they need would have to put up their own items to trade to match or exceed the trade value of the the item they want. Any value that exceeded the traded item is either lost or put towards store credit with that NPC or business. Weather a player can get store credit or not could be determined by their reputation or nature of the relationship they have with that NPC (they don't like you because you failed a quest they gave you then no. They like you because you tortured yourself with their fetch quests then yes).
I always thought game economies always fail is because the gold sinks are just not realistic enough. They are generally short term and static.
What 3 things do people always need to survive.
Food Water Shelter
Everything else is a luxury to one degree or another.
Now food and drink are an excellent way to do a constant low level gold sink, it also works for stimulating the economy when it gets going and makes farming and cooking truly viable professions. Would also play well into their idea of a freehold tavern that they showcased.
But the problem is food and drink are not fun. And it is a classic example of what people need vrs what they want. People need a viable economy for long term MMO health, but people want easy to play and not a lot of micro management.
Another great one is item degradation. Again not fun but a great low level gold reduction. Especially if someone finally did a version where even if you repair and maintain your gear it will eventually wear out requiring replacement.
Honestly I think all MMO economies are doomed to failure eventually due to the fact that realistic does not equal fun.
I always thought game economies always fail is because the gold sinks are just not realistic enough. They are generally short term and static. Me
What 3 things do people always need to survive.
Food Water Shelter
Everything else is a luxury to one degree or another.
Now food and drink are an excellent way to do a constant low level gold sink, it also works for stimulating the economy when it gets going and makes farming and cooking truly viable professions. Would also play well into their idea of a freehold tavern that they showcased.
But the problem is food and drink are not fun. And it is a classic example of what people need vrs what they want. People need a viable economy for long term MMO health, but people want easy to play and not a lot of micro management.
Another great one is item degradation. Again not fun but a great low level gold reduction. Especially if someone finally did a version where even if you repair and maintain your gear it will eventually wear out requiring replacement.
Honestly I think all MMO economies are doomed to failure eventually due to the fact that realistic does not equal fun.
A way to make food and drink seam less like a boring chore they could have them provide some sort of buf.
A way to make food and drink seam less like a boring chore they could have them provide some sort of buf.
Literally one of the first things they ever talked about in a livestream.
It needs to be a good buff though, or it won't be a profession that's worth speccing into. Food should be something that you really want for things like pvp or major bosses, or even for just convenient activities like a movement speed buff. Otherwise the only way to make money in the market will likely just be by making bags like most other mmos.
Same thing with alchemy. Potions should be a very useful and important item. Same with every profession really. A lot of mmos make the mistake of accidentally making most jobs largely worthless while one is absolutely vital, typically due to an imbalance in the result verses the time and resources involved. For example, when I used to play Age of Wushu, the only way to make money ever was to cook food, because there was a hunger bar, so you had to always be eating food, meaning there was always a demand. Meanwhile, calligraphers could make scrolls that would buff other players, but the buffs were so tiny, and the time needed to both make and train up to be able to make the scrolls that were even slightly not totally useless was so outlandish that nobody was willing to spec into it, and for those poor sods who did (like me) nobody was willing to buy them, ever, at all, for any price.
A way to make food and drink seam less like a boring chore they could have them provide some sort of buf.
Literally one of the first things they ever talked about in a livestream.
It needs to be a good buff though, or it won't be a profession that's worth speccing into. Food should be something that you really want for things like pvp or major bosses, or even for just convenient activities like a movement speed buff. Otherwise the only way to make money in the market will likely just be by making bags like most other mmos.
Same thing with alchemy. Potions should be a very useful and important item. Same with every profession really. A lot of mmos make the mistake of accidentally making most jobs largely worthless while one is absolutely vital, typically due to an imbalance in the result verses the time and resources involved. For example, when I used to play Age of Wushu, the only way to make money ever was to cook food, because there was a hunger bar, so you had to always be eating food, meaning there was always a demand. Meanwhile, calligraphers could make scrolls that would buff other players, but the buffs were so tiny, and the time needed to both make and train up to be able to make the scrolls that were even slightly not totally useless was so outlandish that nobody was willing to spec into it, and for those poor sods who did (like me) nobody was willing to buy them, ever, at all, for any price.
I don't mind buff food, but if it's a necessity in the game that'll be an annoyance.
I like the idea you can buy something with gold, or anything other u have to offer. You can make a pre-build choice if you only accept currency, or also would like to barter
Comments
Do you think coin has always existed and community did not exist without it ?
Oh how the modern world makes me cringe
A world without Coin ? HERESY!
It exists purely to enforce hierarchy.
Crafting and selling to NPCs should and could be a way to generate income as well. You could also have either personal or global diminishing returns on items. If you or a bunch of people keep selling level 1 swords, they become worthless. PvPers get their wealth then from looting your caravans.
There is never only one thing that solves everything, but many things one next to other, can.
Mobs not dropping gold is just one needed thing. And then add to that various mechanics to other parts of game that bots can't automatize.
Your logic "because 1 step alone isn't enough to solve bots, than why care at all" is horrible.
The moment you design basic game mechanics around cheaters is the moment your game design goes out the window. With some of the comments that have been made regarding security and availability of API, addons and mods I don't see the Ashes team designing the whole game with the mindset of "how can someone bot this activity?".
What 3 things do people always need to survive.
Food
Water
Shelter
Everything else is a luxury to one degree or another.
Now food and drink are an excellent way to do a constant low level gold sink, it also works for stimulating the economy when it gets going and makes farming and cooking truly viable professions. Would also play well into their idea of a freehold tavern that they showcased.
But the problem is food and drink are not fun. And it is a classic example of what people need vrs what they want. People need a viable economy for long term MMO health, but people want easy to play and not a lot of micro management.
Another great one is item degradation. Again not fun but a great low level gold reduction. Especially if someone finally did a version where even if you repair and maintain your gear it will eventually wear out requiring replacement.
Honestly I think all MMO economies are doomed to failure eventually due to the fact that realistic does not equal fun.
Same thing with alchemy. Potions should be a very useful and important item. Same with every profession really. A lot of mmos make the mistake of accidentally making most jobs largely worthless while one is absolutely vital, typically due to an imbalance in the result verses the time and resources involved. For example, when I used to play Age of Wushu, the only way to make money ever was to cook food, because there was a hunger bar, so you had to always be eating food, meaning there was always a demand. Meanwhile, calligraphers could make scrolls that would buff other players, but the buffs were so tiny, and the time needed to both make and train up to be able to make the scrolls that were even slightly not totally useless was so outlandish that nobody was willing to spec into it, and for those poor sods who did (like me) nobody was willing to buy them, ever, at all, for any price.