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Combat PAX West pre alpha

Hi Intrepid,

I know there probably already is a post like this, but this post is merely to voice my own and my guilds opinion as an entirety and as backers. This post is regarding the combat system that was showed off in the PAX West pre Alpha tutorial specifically, seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMlOqAj9kXE  

I know this is all subject to change and therefor I would like to give my feedback on the matter while there is time.
The combat combo mechanic appears to be something that I wont find enjoyable because it is taking my focus away from your game and visuals. It looks like my eyes are gonna be peeled down on a combo meter.
When a combo fails it makes the combat slow, the animations are taking too much time and the time before I am able to pursue my attacks is also too slow, this makes it feel like I am playing a game like runecraft. The combat is for me one of the main things that I will be doing and that is why it is important that I will find it interesting both visually and interactively.

I am a fan of you wanting to implement a combo system, but I think the execution right now needs to be changed.
My suggestions are as following:
Keep the combo system as it is, but instead of breaking the combo entirely when you miss the click, then make it instead a glancing hit which would deal less damage than a succesful click, and still keep the pace of the combat interesting.
Alternatively, you could use visual queues. The button you use for attacking needs to be used again as soon as your attack connects to the enemy and continuing the combo this way. This would lead players to focus on what is happening on the screen with their character and learn to time their attacks without looking down in the bottom of the screen.

Still with any of these things implemented, the combat still needs to look more interesting and it needs to have a faster pace.

Which leads to the next point. The abilities appear to be very generic, not so impactful and rather boring. A combat system like Black Desert Online is fast, fun, combo related and it have impact in its abilities. It is the first game where I have actually enjoyed grinding due to the combat being fun. That said, I would not like this game to be Black Desert. I just want the combat mechanics to be more interesting.

Thanks for reading
 

Comments

  • This is the type of combat you would see in a Mobile game, oh my. And I also dislike the Armors, the style is nice but they're far too shiny. It reminds me of ESO. Hopefully in the future we can layer Armors or even customize it completely. And no, not "skins". I mean add or remove parts that are purely cosmetic.
  • I really like the dauntless combo combat system and think it would be a perfect fit in ashes of creation because it has combos with visual ques instead of bars.. I'm not saying ashes of creation should copy their whole combat system from dauntless, only suggesting that it could work at least for the basic attack.

    I posted a link down below to an axe tutorial in dauntless about the visual ques I was talking about and think it should be looked into as a potential change in ashes of creation.

    PS: not my video
     https://youtu.be/xdW9dTiv4lM?t=3m57s
  • No the combat does not need to become faster! Bdo may look good and is fast paced but it doesnt promote teamplay, like the rest of this boring game. 
    I rather have it slow and methodical where the right ability at the righ time is what matters.
    Strategic team oriented combat trumps fast paced spectacle combat!

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    When you start going down the rapid gameplay road, you demand rapid screen refreshes no matter the graphics load. You demand the fastest screen refresh rates. You demand the fastest network bandwidth with the lowest latency to shift traffic and eliminate ping. You demand twitch reflexes and rapid hand/finger mobility that is normally the reserve of the younger generation.

    All those things are fine on a single player game or small multiplayer like tekken. For an MMO aimed at 1000s of players using a wide array of hardware, a wide range of network capability and a massive age range.....its a fail.

    Enter strategic gameplay. Using the right skill, in the right place, at the right time and basing your game on reactive playback to ingame identifiers and situational/environmental/positional awareness.
  • Just going to second that the combat looks very bad thanks to the little mini game every time you use an attack. I don't know what it is ment to achive since it just distracts from what's going on. If the "sweet" spot wasn't random you could atleast learn and get a feel for it, but even so. Not a fan.

    I also don't see why strategic and fast paced combat are two mutually exclusive things. It would just require more player skill.

    What would be cool if classes that relied more on speed like rogues or archers were more twich based and things like mages and defensive warriors more slow and strategic.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    Morai said:
    ...
    I also don't see why strategic and fast paced combat are two mutually exclusive things. It would just require more player skill.

    What would be cool if classes that relied more on speed like rogues or archers were more twich based and things like mages and defensive warriors more slow and strategic.
    They are to some extent mutually exclusive!
    Either you need to rely on twitch reflexes and quick, action-oriented ability uses that takes the players attention or you slow things down and give people the time to communicate so they can elaborate on how to react to a threat as a group.

    Look at it from the perspective that the skill needed to succeed is not (only) the individual players effectiveness but the organisation and communication of your party!

    Therefore all classes need to be designed with this goal in mind.
    I think to furthest they can go is to implement active blocking / riposte and dodging mechanics.

  • As many of you I saw the PAX videos, how classes behave etc.
    I noticed few things that I hope will be changed or tuned.
    My first class will be a Ranger, I've always loved such class.
    My main "concern" about this class is the "ultimate/ AOE skill"... the skill seems too long to use... the animation takes several second and the AOE seems a bit too small.
    I think that by the time you press the skill key and the time the AOE is effective, if the tank move or anything, your skill can not be as effective as you thought it would be when you decided to use it.

    That being said, it's just a pre-pre alpha version.. so many tings will change until the closed beta.. and even more from closed beta to the final version.

    I'm sure they heard plenty of comment suggestion at the PAX (or read in forums).
    I'm just surprised that so many people post bad comment while we are certainly 2 years away from the release. It's not like mmo's are a new gender. everybody knows how long it takes to develop such games. So be patient and wait at least for the Beta before making any statement.

    Just my 2 cents from Europe.
  • Raiders95 said:
    As many of you I saw the PAX videos, how classes behave etc.
    I noticed few things that I hope will be changed or tuned.
    My first class will be a Ranger, I've always loved such class.
    My main "concern" about this class is the "ultimate/ AOE skill"... the skill seems too long to use... the animation takes several second and the AOE seems a bit too small.
    I think that by the time you press the skill key and the time the AOE is effective, if the tank move or anything, your skill can not be as effective as you thought it would be when you decided to use it.

    That being said, it's just a pre-pre alpha version.. so many tings will change until the closed beta.. and even more from closed beta to the final version.

    I'm sure they heard plenty of comment suggestion at the PAX (or read in forums).
    I'm just surprised that so many people post bad comment while we are certainly 2 years away from the release. It's not like mmo's are a new gender. everybody knows how long it takes to develop such games. So be patient and wait at least for the Beta before making any statement.

    Just my 2 cents from Europe.
    I find it unlikely that they will deliver the best MMO ever in only two years. We'll see. Currently, a lot of people including myself find the combat lackluster. If they keep the current combat system I think the game lose a lot of interest.
  • Only trying it out ourselves and running group content can we actually know how good/bad and what it is capable of. Watching videos of people play a new game they never played before and trying to make an assessment on that is folly. We need to wait and get in there and try it out. I think it looks good and after people get used to how the classes play and move. I think people will be drawn in once they see how they are meant to be played by people who understand the classes. But only time will tell.
  • I love me some BDO - the best and most immersive MMO world out there, bar none.

    But I can't stand the combat, so I don't do it. It's too fast and twitchy, more reminiscent  of Street Fighter than tactical team combat (and that's where it really falls down).

    I'd prefer to see combat slowed down. Something measured, something tactical. Think Dark Souls, or even something like the Arkham series.  

    Now,  I'm not suggesting AoC depart that from from it's design, but neither should it be faster, less tactical and spammier like BDO.


  • Was looking for a new game awhile ago. Skipped on BDO because of the combat system. Rest looked good but my personal preference is not all AOE button smash game play. Nothing wrong with it. I just don't like it.
  • Jackless said:
    Morai said:
    ...
    I also don't see why strategic and fast paced combat are two mutually exclusive things. It would just require more player skill.

    What would be cool if classes that relied more on speed like rogues or archers were more twich based and things like mages and defensive warriors more slow and strategic.
    They are to some extent mutually exclusive!
    Either you need to rely on twitch reflexes and quick, action-oriented ability uses that takes the players attention or you slow things down and give people the time to communicate so they can elaborate on how to react to a threat as a group.

    Look at it from the perspective that the skill needed to succeed is not (only) the individual players effectiveness but the organisation and communication of your party!

    Therefore all classes need to be designed with this goal in mind.
    I think to furthest they can go is to implement active blocking / riposte and dodging mechanics.

    Right, but give people too much time to think and it gets boring. Since after some experience the soultion to whatever problem the game throws at you becomes obvious quickly and creates a kind of waiting for the rest of the class to finnish the test moment.
    You already know what to do and you're waiting for the game to catch up so the challange is gone.

    I don't think it's accurate to say that fast gameplay requires only reflexes, while it's true it doesn't rely on careful planning it does require fast thinking and snap decisions.

    You're right that if for example the mobs die instantly by say, something like headshots that are purely based on the players hand-eye coordination it's reflex and twitch based. But if the mobs last longer and have abileties that you need to overcome as a group while still requiring players do dodge, think about their combat and more snappy, resonsive  abileties. You can still have something fast pased on the individual players side while still requiring tactical team work.

    I just haven't seen any MMO combat worthy of the term tactical. But when i think tactical i think turn based games where you really need to consider what your opponent will do.
    But maybe we think of diffirent things when we hear tactical and fast pased combat.
  • Man I really hate it when a toon gets hit and I see an HP bar go down and a pathetic animation for getting hit that comes with it....it is completely unrealistic.

    Since I doubt they would revamp everything... the least that can be done to resolve this is have a defensive animation rather than the same old "I got hit and should be dead from that hit but im not" animation... then when your HP runs out that animation is removed and replaced with a death animation

    I'm trying to find a game that doesnt generate a punching bag feeling to it's combat.

    I thought BDO's combos and fast combat would be fun, but no.  Shooting gallery of boredom, no risk.

    Need a game with built in blocking/defensive moves controlled by your settings (not the player), pre-select stances or whatever the heck you wanna call it, prioritize what you want your character to do and have superseding controls to overrule the priorities when you want.  You could have amazing battle animations of attack and defense between characters... with a system that deteriorates your ability to continue in the fight the longer you perform attacks and defensive moves.  You would still be performing all attacks, which is no different than what we have now, just with the added bonus of the defensive animations.

    Basically your toon would block everything they could until they're too tired or run out of whatever resources they use runs out.  Armor Pen, Attack speed, Strength, weapon selection, armor selection.... everything would have an actual purpose.

    #MAKE-RPG-STATS-GREAT-AGAIN

    Combat needs to be faster...
  • DarkTides said:
    Man I really hate it when a toon gets hit and I see an HP bar go down and a pathetic animation for getting hit that comes with it....it is completely unrealistic.

    Since I doubt they would revamp everything... the least that can be done to resolve this is have a defensive animation rather than the same old "I got hit and should be dead from that hit but im not" animation... then when your HP runs out that animation is removed and replaced with a death animation

    I'm trying to find a game that doesnt generate a punching bag feeling to it's combat.

    I thought BDO's combos and fast combat would be fun, but no.  Shooting gallery of boredom, no risk.

    Need a game with built in blocking/defensive moves controlled by your settings (not the player), pre-select stances or whatever the heck you wanna call it, prioritize what you want your character to do and have superseding controls to overrule the priorities when you want.  You could have amazing battle animations of attack and defense between characters... with a system that deteriorates your ability to continue in the fight the longer you perform attacks and defensive moves.  You would still be performing all attacks, which is no different than what we have now, just with the added bonus of the defensive animations.

    Basically your toon would block everything they could until they're too tired or run out of whatever resources they use runs out.  Armor Pen, Attack speed, Strength, weapon selection, armor selection.... everything would have an actual purpose.

    #MAKE-RPG-STATS-GREAT-AGAIN

    Combat needs to be faster...
    The only Melee combat I've felt in a game was Mount and Blade. But even then, it had its limits. The last thing you mentioned reminds me of Dark Souls or Absolver, that wouldn't work in an MMO. Too many people would be turned off by it.
  • A mini game in "real time" combat is a really bad idea... This could work in a turn based combat RPG, maybe...
    I don't think it could be fun to constantly look at that little bar at the bottom of the screen. You would just lose track of what is happening around you...
  • My first thought was "This should be the end of macro combo ninjas" as long as they stick with this design and the accuracy point moves randomly around the bar it should make macroers have to start using data stream hacks which should then lead to bans.. perfect
  • Vortigern said:
    DarkTides said:
    Man I really hate it when a toon gets hit and I see an HP bar go down and a pathetic animation for getting hit that comes with it....it is completely unrealistic.

    Since I doubt they would revamp everything... the least that can be done to resolve this is have a defensive animation rather than the same old "I got hit and should be dead from that hit but im not" animation... then when your HP runs out that animation is removed and replaced with a death animation

    I'm trying to find a game that doesnt generate a punching bag feeling to it's combat.

    I thought BDO's combos and fast combat would be fun, but no.  Shooting gallery of boredom, no risk.

    Need a game with built in blocking/defensive moves controlled by your settings (not the player), pre-select stances or whatever the heck you wanna call it, prioritize what you want your character to do and have superseding controls to overrule the priorities when you want.  You could have amazing battle animations of attack and defense between characters... with a system that deteriorates your ability to continue in the fight the longer you perform attacks and defensive moves.  You would still be performing all attacks, which is no different than what we have now, just with the added bonus of the defensive animations.

    Basically your toon would block everything they could until they're too tired or run out of whatever resources they use runs out.  Armor Pen, Attack speed, Strength, weapon selection, armor selection.... everything would have an actual purpose.

    #MAKE-RPG-STATS-GREAT-AGAIN

    Combat needs to be faster...
    The only Melee combat I've felt in a game was Mount and Blade. But even then, it had its limits. The last thing you mentioned reminds me of Dark Souls or Absolver, that wouldn't work in an MMO. Too many people would be turned off by it.
    Which part reminds you of Dark Souls or Absolver? 

    When you get hit in these games, your HP bar is reduced, even if you have full stamina (because you didnt press a button to block)... most of the time, these hits, should they be set in reality, would outright kill the person.  I am merely suggesting that there be a system in place that auto-defends along with an animation to demonstrate this, which depletes a stamina bar rather than HP, and once the stamina bar is gone, your HP drops at that time and damage is sustained proportional to the type of attack... an example being in Skyrim... arrows to the head, visibly stuck, and they're alive.  I'm just sayin all games do this.  You could have amazing displays of combat, if only your toon would graphically defend against incoming attacks.  That's the least that can be done.

    I'd make it way more complicated, and that's when you scale character capabilities. Most of this is done via RNG... it's just associated with a graphic.....which makes combat feel more realistic than just being a punching bag and watching your Bars go down as the only indicator that something happened.  Someone will make it happen, one day!
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    DarkTides said:
    Vortigern said:
    DarkTides said:
    Man I really hate it when a toon gets hit and I see an HP bar go down and a pathetic animation for getting hit that comes with it....it is completely unrealistic.

    Since I doubt they would revamp everything... the least that can be done to resolve this is have a defensive animation rather than the same old "I got hit and should be dead from that hit but im not" animation... then when your HP runs out that animation is removed and replaced with a death animation

    I'm trying to find a game that doesnt generate a punching bag feeling to it's combat.

    I thought BDO's combos and fast combat would be fun, but no.  Shooting gallery of boredom, no risk.

    Need a game with built in blocking/defensive moves controlled by your settings (not the player), pre-select stances or whatever the heck you wanna call it, prioritize what you want your character to do and have superseding controls to overrule the priorities when you want.  You could have amazing battle animations of attack and defense between characters... with a system that deteriorates your ability to continue in the fight the longer you perform attacks and defensive moves.  You would still be performing all attacks, which is no different than what we have now, just with the added bonus of the defensive animations.

    Basically your toon would block everything they could until they're too tired or run out of whatever resources they use runs out.  Armor Pen, Attack speed, Strength, weapon selection, armor selection.... everything would have an actual purpose.

    #MAKE-RPG-STATS-GREAT-AGAIN

    Combat needs to be faster...
    The only Melee combat I've felt in a game was Mount and Blade. But even then, it had its limits. The last thing you mentioned reminds me of Dark Souls or Absolver, that wouldn't work in an MMO. Too many people would be turned off by it.
    Which part reminds you of Dark Souls or Absolver? 

    When you get hit in these games, your HP bar is reduced, even if you have full stamina (because you didnt press a button to block)... most of the time, these hits, should they be set in reality, would outright kill the person.  I am merely suggesting that there be a system in place that auto-defends along with an animation to demonstrate this, which depletes a stamina bar rather than HP, and once the stamina bar is gone, your HP drops at that time and damage is sustained proportional to the type of attack... an example being in Skyrim... arrows to the head, visibly stuck, and they're alive.  I'm just sayin all games do this.  You could have amazing displays of combat, if only your toon would graphically defend against incoming attacks.  That's the least that can be done.

    I'd make it way more complicated, and that's when you scale character capabilities. Most of this is done via RNG... it's just associated with a graphic.....which makes combat feel more realistic than just being a punching bag and watching your Bars go down as the only indicator that something happened.  Someone will make it happen, one day!
    What you're asking for would never happen in an MMO such as AoC, they're going for that streamlined, generic MMO feel.
  • Vortigern said:
    DarkTides said:
    Vortigern said:
    DarkTides said:
    Man I really hate it when a toon gets hit and I see an HP bar go down and a pathetic animation for getting hit that comes with it....it is completely unrealistic.

    Since I doubt they would revamp everything... the least that can be done to resolve this is have a defensive animation rather than the same old "I got hit and should be dead from that hit but im not" animation... then when your HP runs out that animation is removed and replaced with a death animation

    I'm trying to find a game that doesnt generate a punching bag feeling to it's combat.

    I thought BDO's combos and fast combat would be fun, but no.  Shooting gallery of boredom, no risk.

    Need a game with built in blocking/defensive moves controlled by your settings (not the player), pre-select stances or whatever the heck you wanna call it, prioritize what you want your character to do and have superseding controls to overrule the priorities when you want.  You could have amazing battle animations of attack and defense between characters... with a system that deteriorates your ability to continue in the fight the longer you perform attacks and defensive moves.  You would still be performing all attacks, which is no different than what we have now, just with the added bonus of the defensive animations.

    Basically your toon would block everything they could until they're too tired or run out of whatever resources they use runs out.  Armor Pen, Attack speed, Strength, weapon selection, armor selection.... everything would have an actual purpose.

    #MAKE-RPG-STATS-GREAT-AGAIN

    Combat needs to be faster...
    The only Melee combat I've felt in a game was Mount and Blade. But even then, it had its limits. The last thing you mentioned reminds me of Dark Souls or Absolver, that wouldn't work in an MMO. Too many people would be turned off by it.
    Which part reminds you of Dark Souls or Absolver? 

    When you get hit in these games, your HP bar is reduced, even if you have full stamina (because you didnt press a button to block)... most of the time, these hits, should they be set in reality, would outright kill the person.  I am merely suggesting that there be a system in place that auto-defends along with an animation to demonstrate this, which depletes a stamina bar rather than HP, and once the stamina bar is gone, your HP drops at that time and damage is sustained proportional to the type of attack... an example being in Skyrim... arrows to the head, visibly stuck, and they're alive.  I'm just sayin all games do this.  You could have amazing displays of combat, if only your toon would graphically defend against incoming attacks.  That's the least that can be done.

    I'd make it way more complicated, and that's when you scale character capabilities. Most of this is done via RNG... it's just associated with a graphic.....which makes combat feel more realistic than just being a punching bag and watching your Bars go down as the only indicator that something happened.  Someone will make it happen, one day!
    What you're asking for would never happen in an MMO such as AoC, they're going for that streamlined, generic MMO feel.
    https://youtu.be/xMlOqAj9kXE?t=170

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    Morai said:
    " Right, but give people too much time to think and it gets boring. Since after some experience the soultion to whatever problem the game throws at you becomes obvious quickly and creates a kind of waiting for the rest of the class to finnish the test moment ...
    If all Long-Range Archetypes had an ( 3rd-Person ) MMOFPS-style 
    • Like DarkFall Combat
    Then I think it'll be easier to understand.

    In tab-targetting, you don't have to " think/ plan " - its just a matter of Spacing.
    In action-combat, its " iffy " but i would suggest a fair amount of Complications, ( like Kiting + Attacking )

    What you described is something that i can relate in a " Tab-Targetting Scenario " . 

    ( DarkFall MMOFPS Style issues is the constant Jumping ( think Original Halo Online ) & the " Aimbots ". But the Aimbots can be purged with Programs preventing that )
  • @DarkTides
    The MMO that comes relatively-close to that is SWTOR.

    Despite what EA has done to it ...
    • Animations are Crisp af - probably Best Melee-Defensive Combat out of any MMO
    • However, no Stamina Bar - the " Defenses " are RNG ... but its based on Character Sheet & your Equipment
    • You don't have " Full-Control " of Blocking, but the Chances increase depending on your Equipment
    • Obtaining those Equipment is a matter of Crafting and/or Global Trade Market
    • ( yeah Global Trade markets suck >x< )
    Did i mention EA ? Yeah ... they fudged it up  :s

  • Eragale said:

    ( DarkFall MMOFPS Style issues is the constant Jumping ( think Original Halo Oniline ) & the " Aimbots ". But the Aimbots can be purged with Programs of preventing that )
    You are punished more for jumping in MMOFPS games because you are stuck along a path for a period of time giving your opponent an easy target. In darkfall, you were also punished for spam jumping because it drained your stamina.

    Pretty sure jumping goes unpunished in most tab target games so i don't know why you think spam jumping is an issue..
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    @McStackerson
    My point is comparing Combat-Styles for Long-Range - deciding which would be the most ideal in conveying the Long-Range Classes
    • Tab-Targetting, Action-Combat & MMOFPS
    Not sure what you're insinuating, but i was referencing to have different styles to better-express the long-range class ... ( i.e. stating & comparing the " Pros " & "Cons")
    • since Tab-targeting gives lee-way to Long-Range in not having to truly Aim
  • BDO has good combat, but because it's so fast it can never be my main game.  I play it at tops for an hour at a time and only play it a couple times a week.  BDO gameplay also excludes a lot of older gamers (the core audience of MMOs) who GENERALLY cannot compete in twitch gameplay.  I am 26, and BDO is too fast for long term gameplay.
    FFXIV, which has slower combat, is very cooperative focused, and because of that I can play it daily for 2 or 3 hours when I'm on an FFXIV kick.  A bit faster than FFXIV and quite a bit slower than BDO would be the sweet spot for me and would fit this game well as it's harkening back to older social gaming designs and presenting new ideas.  Combat gameplay ranging from TERA to WoW would be the ideal window. (AoC has never claimed to be action based.)
    I do agree, combat needs to improve and I am glad you are openly providing feedback, but I don't think speed is the answer.

  • @Eragale
    Sorry, i might have jumped to a conclusion based off the first sentence i quoted. Thought you were trying to say that there is more spam jumping in MMOFPS style games which i disagreed with as the genre naturally punishes it.
  • Vortigern said:
    DarkTides said:
    Vortigern said:
    DarkTides said:
    Man I really hate it when a toon gets hit and I see an HP bar go down and a pathetic animation for getting hit that comes with it....it is completely unrealistic.

    Since I doubt they would revamp everything... the least that can be done to resolve this is have a defensive animation rather than the same old "I got hit and should be dead from that hit but im not" animation... then when your HP runs out that animation is removed and replaced with a death animation

    I'm trying to find a game that doesnt generate a punching bag feeling to it's combat.

    I thought BDO's combos and fast combat would be fun, but no.  Shooting gallery of boredom, no risk.

    Need a game with built in blocking/defensive moves controlled by your settings (not the player), pre-select stances or whatever the heck you wanna call it, prioritize what you want your character to do and have superseding controls to overrule the priorities when you want.  You could have amazing battle animations of attack and defense between characters... with a system that deteriorates your ability to continue in the fight the longer you perform attacks and defensive moves.  You would still be performing all attacks, which is no different than what we have now, just with the added bonus of the defensive animations.

    Basically your toon would block everything they could until they're too tired or run out of whatever resources they use runs out.  Armor Pen, Attack speed, Strength, weapon selection, armor selection.... everything would have an actual purpose.

    #MAKE-RPG-STATS-GREAT-AGAIN

    Combat needs to be faster...
    The only Melee combat I've felt in a game was Mount and Blade. But even then, it had its limits. The last thing you mentioned reminds me of Dark Souls or Absolver, that wouldn't work in an MMO. Too many people would be turned off by it.
    Which part reminds you of Dark Souls or Absolver? 

    When you get hit in these games, your HP bar is reduced, even if you have full stamina (because you didnt press a button to block)... most of the time, these hits, should they be set in reality, would outright kill the person.  I am merely suggesting that there be a system in place that auto-defends along with an animation to demonstrate this, which depletes a stamina bar rather than HP, and once the stamina bar is gone, your HP drops at that time and damage is sustained proportional to the type of attack... an example being in Skyrim... arrows to the head, visibly stuck, and they're alive.  I'm just sayin all games do this.  You could have amazing displays of combat, if only your toon would graphically defend against incoming attacks.  That's the least that can be done.

    I'd make it way more complicated, and that's when you scale character capabilities. Most of this is done via RNG... it's just associated with a graphic.....which makes combat feel more realistic than just being a punching bag and watching your Bars go down as the only indicator that something happened.  Someone will make it happen, one day!
    What you're asking for would never happen in an MMO such as AoC, they're going for that streamlined, generic MMO feel.
    https://youtu.be/xMlOqAj9kXE?t=170

    Yeah it's a shame.  Just harping away.  I have a simulation going off in my mind of what my version would look like and i just know it will happen one day!
  • Eragale said:
    @DarkTides
    The MMO that comes relatively-close to that is SWTOR.

    Despite what EA has done to it ...
    • Animations are Crisp af - probably Best Melee-Defensive Combat out of any MMO
    • However, no Stamina Bar - the " Defenses " are RNG ... but its based on Character Sheet & your Equipment
    • You don't have " Full-Control " of Blocking, but the Chances increase depending on your Equipment
    • Obtaining those Equipment is a matter of Crafting and/or Global Trade Market
    • ( yeah Global Trade markets suck >x< )
    Did i mention EA ? Yeah ... they fudged it up  :s

    Yes sir yes sir. I have actually used the SWTOR example, with the light saber blocking, and linked the video in a post somewhere.  That would honestly now be below my bare minimum expectations since its just the same animation over and over.  Lots and lots of work would be required to do what I believe will eventually be the direction games will one day take.
  • Lethality said:
    I love me some BDO - the best and most immersive MMO world out there, bar none.

    But I can't stand the combat, so I don't do it. It's too fast and twitchy, more reminiscent  of Street Fighter than tactical team combat (and that's where it really falls down).

    I'd prefer to see combat slowed down. Something measured, something tactical. Think Dark Souls, or even something like the Arkham series.  

    Now,  I'm not suggesting AoC depart that from from it's design, but neither should it be faster, less tactical and spammier like BDO.


    Jeff Bard said he wants Ashes combat to faster than WoW, but slower than BDO.
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