Can we talk about key prices?

ArchivedUser

We won't be use P2W elements in our game we promise! We'll never sell power to the players, instead we'll majorly inconvenience non-payers to the point that our "totally not p2w" convenience items end up making you fork over your cash to have enjoyable experience.

ArchivedUser

There is no non-payer. You either pay the sub, or you don't play. There won't be free trials, or "buy a month of patron to unlock double-exp" bullshit. I realize that sarcasm and irony don't tone well over posts, but it must be that.

ArchivedUser

It's Pay2Play? 

ArchivedUser

I'm realizing this now. 

ArchivedUser

Neitronic said:

It's Pay2Play? 

There will be no Box price to pay, but a $15 monthly sub to pay

ArchivedUser

I understand. Thanks for assiastance.

ArchivedUser

ArchivedUser

ArchivedUser

I don't think the keys are priced high enough. Prestige/exclusivity is something that Alpha/betas have gone away from in the past years. If you didn't get the package in KS or summer or raffles then you shouldn't have access to alpha. I don't even like the raffle key for alpha, I can understand beta but not alpha.

Most of the randoms who won the raffles are either duplicate accounts who will sell their access or some troll who wants access to leak things. Not many real testers in those types of drawings, from what I've experienced in other games. The very few who get that access will try to play the game as if it were a finished product and spread false information. 

So I do believe alpha should not be put up for sell at all. Beta access is understandable but keep the initial testing for those who are loyal to the community and will serve up useful feedback. 

ArchivedUser

I think regardless of community involvement, price of the alpha/beta keys, or who wins the raffles there is no guaranteed way to prevent trolls. Players that wanna play will always be able to find a way to play, find or experience bugs, and not take the time to report them.

I also believe the raffle is a good idea and draws more members to the community. I have not seen evidence that those who have won the raffles have attempted to sell them or won them with duplicate accounts. I'm not saying it hasn't or won't happen, just that I have seen no evidence.

Just because someone wins a free Alpha package we can't assume they won't participate in the "full" alpha experience.

ArchivedUser

You also need to remember the Alpha 0 as stated by Jeffrey is more of a "load test" than a gameplay alpha. They want to see what happens when they actually start throwing people from different parts of the world all at once onto the servers what issues they may have. They are envisioned to be a series of weekends with probable multiple builds and extreme bugs and will in no way reflect what the plan for "persistent alpha" will be. Much easier to figure out log on/load crash issues when you have 50-100 people logging on at any one time vs 10,000

ArchivedUser

Price, for me, is more about financially supporting the development of the game design, getting some cool, "unique" cosmetics and getting a lifetime sub.

Early access, for me, is more about having an opportunity to weigh in on the development of the game - not simply test for bugs.
I wouldn't pay any money just to test for bugs.

ArchivedUser

See if something is too expensive it is normally best just not to buy it. You don't need to buy it nor do you need to participate in the betas. Simple. 

ArchivedUser

AeonAuron said:

You guys do realise they didn't just sell keys and those campaigns were mostly about backing the game?

^ This. So many times I see people equate a pledge in crowd-funding with some sort of arbitrary RRP value. And, hey, sometimes they match up,.. but sometimes they don't. That doesn't make them "wrong", though.

ArchivedUser

Shoklen said:

Valherus said:

I think you need to consider that AoC is going to be a subscription game.  You are going to pay a monthly fee to play it once it is released.  So, consider how early you get to play.  Alpha 2 is likely to be more than a year before general release.  At a "normal" subscription price of $15 a month, you are probably going to get the equivalent of about $200 of play time during the persistent Alpha 2, if not more.

Looking at it that way.. interesting. Then Alpha 2 including Beta 2. That's quite a lot of playtime.

Alpha 2 itself is quite a lot of playtime, considering it is a persistent alpha, eg. PTS.

To my understanding (and I might be wrong, and If I am, I made the purchase for nothing) you get to play the test server until release, so basically a early access that will be wiped until release.

ArchivedUser

The thing I dont get is the absurd price jump. If you compare it With the 150$ pack they had in kickstarter that had Alpha 2 Access and 4 months sub included. thats 90$ for the alpha key vs 225$for the one they sell now. Why would they more than double the price for just being able to test the game for them?

ArchivedUser

They might have gained all the play testers necessary, or they might have an upper limit they are getting close to. Maybe if they reduced the price to 90$ they would have too many players for what they are going for. Then if they limited the number of purchases here in a few months when new peeps find this site they will complain, "why did they only sell x amount?"

I'm not even sure they were counting the 15$/month sub as a 4 month sub for 60$. There might have been some sort of reduced rate they used for sub's purchased during the KS (and maybe Summer backer).

I don't consider what I purchased as "paying to test." I paid for a variety of other things and Alpha was part of that. Demand drives the market and now that players will always desire a "first look" or "first play" at a major release companies no longer have to pay play testers. Why pay somebody to do something someone else will pay you for letting them do?

*I'm not a big fan of "why do I have to pay to test?" You don't.*

ArchivedUser

I wonder if keys will kost 200+ thats 99,99% sure not going to happen. But If we look at the KS packages, who knows if they balance the tickeds on that. They probbaly will.

ArchivedUser

I feel like people just consider these pay to access alphas and betas like just being able to play the games earlier, I used to think like that my self. I think the mentality of people who are going to buy those keys should be something along the lines of "I want to help the developers with funding, and developing the game." The main purpose of the phases before official release are not to play the game for the sake of playing the game, it is to make sure the game when it is officially released is the game they want to release. If you don't feel like dropping $100-$225 to play test an incomplete product that is fine, but you also shouldn't expect Intrepid to make a more affordable early access package like other games. There are probably a good few reasons why they priced it as such that have been mentioned earlier in the thread. This just seems like a non-issue to me.

ArchivedUser

The Alpha Access for sale right now during PAX, is that after the Braver of Worlds Alpha Access? or Before? I guess what I'm asking is: Would a Braver of Worlds want to buy the $225 Alpha key for themselves?

ArchivedUser

These packages were for more funding, they were NOT for simply selling keys.
If you want simple alpha and or beta acces for a cheaper price, wait a few months untill they actually are close enough to those things.

ArchivedUser

Dragnon said:

The Alpha Access for sale right now during PAX, is that after the Braver of Worlds Alpha Access? or Before? I guess what I'm asking is: Would a Braver of Worlds want to buy the $225 Alpha key for themselves?

The BoW access is for alpha 1 and beyond. The Pax is for Alpha 2, probably beta 1 (not confirmed) and beta 2. If those with BoW or above wanted the PAX cosmetics they would just buy the $40 package.
Those with BoW will get access before the PAX package by one Alpha stage. Order given so far is Apha 1, Alpha 2, Beta 1, Beta 2.

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

Price, for me, is more about financially supporting the development of the game design, getting some cool, "unique" cosmetics and getting a lifetime sub.

Early access, for me, is more about having an opportunity to weigh in on the development of the game - not simply test for bugs.
I wouldn't pay any money just to test for bugs.

Dygz gets it

ArchivedUser

Its not as if they have said...

"Right guys. We need to build servers and do server testing with upkeep costs.
Heres the cost + bill/month and the duration in months.
Heres the places available if you want to help and the key price to cover/help with costs.
Thanks for your help.....beers in the post."
Thats all transparent and fair enough.
I am sure there are concerned whales community members that would jump at the opportunity.

They are also not offering a donate button.
They are selling premature access via keys.
They could have just had a donate button....and then subsequently sent an email saying "..thanks for the help.....we have attached a key we thought you may like. Activate it if you want to participate in testing. We will get back to you when dates are confirmed."
So trying to make this out as some support mechanism is just ..well..cringe worthy.

Lastly, if you are going to sell premature access as a thing in its own right, why demand full price for a fraction of the product ?
1% full product for 12 months should be costing you $1.80

Yeah. Its all shady/opaque business practice to me, however I look at it.

ArchivedUser

dat greed. Not only they sell testing (which is normally a PAID job), but even at such irreal piece.
IMAO I don't believe that a company who charge 200+ for a alpha key will not going to fill the game with microtransactions in addition to the monthly fee(which also not the cheapest in the market).

ArchivedUser

Testing is a paid job for professional testers. Are there any professional testers in this community? If there are any, please raise your hand.

No one? Don't be shy... still nobody?

Sarcasm asside, selling beta keys or only inclouding them in pricey founders packages is common practive within the MMO industry for the past few years. Not that I support it, but Intrepid Studios didn't re-invent the wheel by selling alpha and beta keys, they just follow the trend others have set for them, and it works.

ArchivedUser

MADE said:

dat greed. Not only they sell testing (which is normally a PAID job), but even at such irreal piece.
IMAO I don't believe that a company who charge 200+ for a alpha key will not going to fill the game with microtransactions in addition to the monthly fee(which also not the cheapest in the market).

I understand the apprehension on paying for essentially testing a game for a company, but look at it from another point of view, you get to actively participate in the creation of the game through providing feedback and criticism on systems as they are implemented. Many games have gone the way of early access as means to QA testing their games. The alpha and beta do not have a monthly sub as far as I understand, and charging a subscription for monthly access upon release, with no box price mind you, means that we will see continued support in the form of content. Just my opinion.

ArchivedUser

So, like another post points out, unless you are sitting down and only searching for bugs you are actually playing the game.

I will be a test agent, I will test by playing the game and doing all the crazy things I can do. I will then report any issues. I am not a professional tester so I do not know any more efficient way to test the game. That said, if Alpha 1 and so forth until release is a process that takes 12 months (example) then I paid a little over 18$ a month.

If the process takes 18 months including persistent testing up until release then I only paid 12.5$ a month.

In return for the up front monthly fee I get to run around in the world, play with character creation, class and weapon advancing, and the node system. The game might have lot's of bugs that prevent me from enjoying every minute, but there is that feeling of satisfaction of reporting a bug that maybe only you found.

You want the game to do well, you want to test the game, you want to be paid to test the game or pay less to test the game. Sorry, this is a supply and demand market, demand sets price, people have (and are) paying that price. IS has no reason to lower price.

ArchivedUser

@Azathoth you did just point out way i hade so fun whit the Alpha/Beta Testing i did when i did get keys to ESO found one funny bugg in one of the Starter places that made me fly a cross the bloody map and when i got a hold of a dev i did ask him to followe me and poff he when flying a cross the map and i got a wisper from him hmm that was unexpected

ArchivedUser

I do believe with the access the Alpha 2 Key gives you, it's not just about early access and getting the experience on the mechanics of the game, it's also about helping to improve a game we are all wanting and (in my opinion) desperately need for this genre.

i mean, everything I've read and I've seen has made me eager to play, but I know rushing it won't give us what we want. I'm excited to jump in and just help where I can and enjoy my time.