Thoughts on Pre-Alpha Combat, PVP & PVE

ArchivedUser

Bajjer said:

PlagueMonk said:

3) I also am not a fan of NEEDING one of every archtype to be able to clear a dungeon or similar activity. There should be multiple ways to approach a situation. I really don't want to hear, "Well, we couldn't find a bard so we have to scrap it guys, thanks for waiting and sorry". That's just unacceptable and frankly lazy game design.

They have said a number of times that it won't be necessary, but the dungeon will progress faster if you do. So if you can't get a bard or a rogue, you can just slot in another ranger and mage, and you can still complete the dungeon, it might just take 10 more minutes.

There will always be alternatives.

That and each person will have 2 archetypes, with a party of 8, so it's more probable that there will be one of whatever it is that's needed. Unless one or two archetypes are heavily shafted and are hardly chosen.

ArchivedUser

As long as the combat is better than Runescape, I'm pretty ok with it.

ArchivedUser

Nocht said:

Bajjer said:

PlagueMonk said:

3) I also am not a fan of NEEDING one of every archtype to be able to clear a dungeon or similar activity. There should be multiple ways to approach a situation. I really don't want to hear, "Well, we couldn't find a bard so we have to scrap it guys, thanks for waiting and sorry". That's just unacceptable and frankly lazy game design.

They have said a number of times that it won't be necessary, but the dungeon will progress faster if you do. So if you can't get a bard or a rogue, you can just slot in another ranger and mage, and you can still complete the dungeon, it might just take 10 more minutes.

There will always be alternatives.

That and each person will have 2 archetypes, with a party of 8, so it's more probable that there will be one of whatever it is that's needed. Unless one or two archetypes are heavily shafted and are hardly chosen.

I was personally responding to the video content and last I had heard this was still being discussed (the OP is probably thinking the same thing). SO if there has been further discussion from PAX then that's great. Sorry but I haven't had the time to delve into all the PAX info.

I also don't know if you can count on your secondary class being able to fulfill a particular role. Secondaries are supposed to be about augmenting your primary class, not giving you new skills. So giving an X / Cleric say cleanse doesn't seem in keeping with that initial description.

ArchivedUser

Needs to be faster, needs to be more intuitive. No matter the graphics, no matter the story ... people will leave if they dont like the combat.
And atm its boring and really clunky to say the least.
Certainly the part of the game that still requires the most development.

Cant say any of the gameplay took away any worries. "content" or having an actual game never worried me ... combat however always does.

ArchivedUser

What Steven said is that they are designing/balancing the dungeons around 8-person groups that require each archetype.

Dual-classing will mitigate some of the problems associated not having one of each archetype.

We should probably also adjust our notions of completing every dungeon - there is a ton of room between scrapping the entire dungeon and completing the entire dungeon. Especially in open world dungeons.
Also, there will be sections of dungeons that people can solo and duo, etc.
As seen in the original Predator video.

ArchivedUser

PlagueMonk said:

I was personally responding to the video content and last I had heard this was still being discussed (the OP is probably thinking the same thing). SO if there has been further discussion from PAX then that's great. Sorry but I haven't had the time to delve into all the PAX info.

I also don't know if you can count on your secondary class being able to fulfill a particular role. Secondaries are supposed to be about augmenting your primary class, not giving you new skills. So giving an X / Cleric say cleanse doesn't seem in keeping with that initial description.

Yes, thanks for pointing that out. I'd forgotten that secondary archetypes would only be augments. I got back into playing ArcheAge again last week and.. got used to multiple archetypes being something else.

Dygz said:

What Steven said is that they are designing/balancing the dungeons around 8-person groups that require each archetype.

Dual-classing will mitigate some of the problems associated not having one of each archetype.

We should probably also adjust our notions of completing every dungeon - there is a ton of room between scrapping the entire dungeon and completing the entire dungeon. Especially in open world dungeons.
Also, there will be sections of dungeons that people can solo and duo, etc.
As seen in the original Predator video.

Hopefully "require" will be more than just simple obstacles that each archetype can tackle in the dungeon. Hmm.. I guess I mean I would just prefer them to be used in challenging ways, rather than a "please use archer's tracking to move further". I would love to see this attitude for combat and other aspects of dungeons and raiding as well.

ArchivedUser

Jeff B said at PAX that utility skills will available as augments.
So, yes, a Tank/Cleric should be able to use a version of Cleanse - though it may not be as powerful as the primary skill.

The heals of a Tank/Cleric will be self-only heals, so would not really be fulfilling the role of party healer.

@Nocht
I think most frequently, it will be the players choosing when to use those utilities.
Even in the PAX demo, you could choose to slog through the damage from the poisoned water or mist, rather than relying on the Mage and Cleric utilities.
But, you might also miss hidden portions of a dungeon if you don't use utilities to find or unlock those areas.

ArchivedUser

Sotes about the combat slider bar from 9/15/2017 Livestream notes from AoCWiki:

1. Are you going to get rid of the sweet spot bar from combat and look for another way to accomplish the same effect?

1. 50:03

2. Yeah, will continue iterating on it.

3. That wasn’t a final product or UI at PAX.

4. Most companies don’t show early renditions for this reason.

Wonder how it will be changed. 

ArchivedUser

The main thing they're talking about now is allowing players to customize the shape of the QTE display in a variety of ways and allowing them to customize it.

ArchivedUser

I hope they change it more then just that. I played the game 16 times and felt i saw more of the game watching videos after pax. I don't want to have to look at a UI element to play the game. I like the idea of the combo meter but i hope they find a way to accomplish it's goal without a random bar i have to always look at.

ArchivedUser

Yeah, but the purpose is for you to focus at least peripherally on the bar rather than relying memorizing the rhythm to tap out.
One of the popular UI suggestions is to have the bar be more like an ArcHud in WoW.

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

Yeah, but the purpose is for you to focus at least peripherally on the bar rather than relying memorizing the rhythm to tap out.
One of the popular UI suggestions is to have the bar be more like an ArcHud in WoW.

Yep, if it was some kind of rhythm/skill based thing, I would not mind it as much cause the more I play it, the more experienced I'll be with it. (Not that I would prefer that over its removal) If it stays as something I have to put half of my attention to, it will get old very quickly. IIRC ArcHud can be moved around and resized, which I hope we can do if they decide to keep the bar. Either way, more than the position, still needs to be changed in other aspects.

ArchivedUser

Steven wants the the QTE display element to be highly customizable by players - change the shape from bar to circle...possibly arcs - change the location - and possibly change the transparency.
He wants all of the UI to be highly customizable by players.

"Need" is a pretty strong word.
The devs may not agree, but that depends on the specific detail(s) of the design element.