Fan's advice for improving combat in Ashes of Creations.

ArchivedUser

NOTE: 1. These thoughts are based on content about Ashes of Creation found on the net.

            2. English is not my first language.

 If you yet do not know, AoCs PvP in the PAX event wasn't the most enjoyable feature in the game to me and some others it seems. It didn't suck, but it wasn't the best there was. And because AoC is still under development, this is quite a good result. As ARPG combat takes a meaningful place so please improve this part to a point, where you could play the game only for its combat. I know only ONE MMO game that has yet to given me that expression and that's Black Desert Online. Here's a link to some of the Black Desert Online combat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRwETF2kBks

As you can see the combat is unique in Black Desert Online because it uses fighter games elements. Think new unique ways of combat suiting just AoC. Just take a moment for yourself to think and ask yourself. What games have you played? What kind of combat did they have? How did they make it? How can you compound them? How to make it unique?

Here are some things that I don't enjoy about AoC combat:

1. When a mob starts a attacking animation, it will will hit you, even if you have already move 10 meters back. 

2. Landing a combo or a ability doesn't feel impactful. 

3. Tap targeting system is something I and many others don't enjoy at all. It makes melee classes to be a little shorthanded and ranged classes OP because all your attacks always hits, needing almost no skill.

How to fix these problems:

1. Give hit boxes to all attacks. This way fighting mobs feels immersive, because you  have to dodge attacks and time your own attacks so, that you don't get hit by the mob. It doesn't require too much work, because you can use the same hit boxes on some mobs.

2. Adding a impactful sound or shaking the screen makes landing combos and abilities seem impactful.

3. Just remove all tap targeting elements. This adds more skill to the game. I remember your creative director Steven Sharif saying in Q&A, that the combat is supposed to be balanced on skill and gear. No offence, but right now I don't see the skill factor being in a meaning position anywhere else expect the combo box, which also could be a bit improved but I'll go back to it later. If you have yet to have looked at the video about Black Desert Online combat, watch it. There you can see that abilities can be used when ever you want. If someone happened to stand in the way of the attacks hit box they would be hit. Dodging is possible in all classes but it uses stamina, which could in AoC case be focus points. So if you could use this element of combat system it would be nice. I know this is a big chance from your current combat system, but you could try it out in a separate beta server.

The combo box was a good idea. But its current location on screen was a little bad. From what I have heard it was more distracting to try to focus on the small box in center of your screen. If instead you could put in a way like this example.

​The idea in this one was to try to land in the middle of those red circles. Now this looks a little crappy but you get the idea. You can see the background and you always see the combo box.

Also in the PvP event of the PAX event I heard people tried to run from other players so that they would not need to fight them, which is probably not so much fun. So trying you should to fix this by adding some kind of a reward system from killing a player in a PvP match.

Now I have told my thoughts about the combat of AoC so far. What do you think? Possible?

ArchivedUser

Jamboiii said:

3. Tap targeting system is something I and many others don't enjoy at all. It makes melee classes to be a little shorthanded and ranged classes OP because all your attacks always hits, needing almost no skill.

I definitely like this aspect. I have never been a fan of tab target mostly because of the reason you mentioned. It replaces skill with button-mashing until you can find your target.

ArchivedUser

HeckinBamboozled said:

Jamboiii said:

3. Tap targeting system is something I and many others don't enjoy at all. It makes melee classes to be a little shorthanded and ranged classes OP because all your attacks always hits, needing almost no skill.

I definitely like this aspect. I have never been a fan of tab target mostly because of the reason you mentioned. It replaces skill with button-mashing until you can find your target.

I feel the same about a lot of action combat games. Just mash buttons til you hit your target

Edit: Both styles of combat can be played by button mashing, but neither benefits from it. A person who knows what they are dojng will defeat the button masher everytime.

ArchivedUser

There's a few things I saw in the PAX vids that I think could be improved, or I need to be persuaded to like, about the combat. I understand your concerns about tab targeting but I certainly wouldn't advocate something more along the lines of ESO's combat. I thought combat in ESO was one of its weaknesses. There's plenty to like about the combat in Ashes from what I've seen, and it's going to be up to the Alpha testers to make suggestions on how to improve a system which is two years away from final implementation. The exciting thing for all of us is that Steven and Intrepid are developing this from the players' perspective.  

ArchivedUser

although i was not at pax, and did not have the chance to play. I seen enough videos of it by now, and hear enough people talk about it by now, that it does leave some concern! 

the comments i heart were sluggish combat, slow combat and the tab targeting that thrown most people off. As of what i could see on the videos it did seem some what clunky. Whit hit boxes on mobs and people not yet in proportion, and skills not yet being optimized.

One could argue if tab targeting still has a place in the mmo world as most new MMO's seem more action combat oriented. What you do have to ask your self is, if the unreal engine really was designed for anything other then tab targeting. it might prove way more difficult to change to a action combat system, then it would be leaving it at tab targeting! i do agree that some AoE skills could be more sorted in to a more action oriented manor!

on the focus with that combo box i do agree, its an extraction that feels unnecessary. If you do want to use it in the game its fine but at least make sure our focus can stay on the target while still being able to follow the combo marker! a hit system like "weak auras" mod in WoW ( we got a nice figure of speech in the Netherlands "Better stolen right, then thought up badly ) might do the trick there! 

ArchivedUser

Finger cramping should never happen in a MMORPG.  So IMO combat should be fairly simple.  Select attack and aim, just slightly more involved than auto attack.  Similar concept to the what the old AoC used.

If it's going to be a bunch of keyboard mouse acrobatics I'm not interested at all.  A MMORPG should be more mental than reflexes.

ArchivedUser

I feel like the combo box looking different might make it a bit better to work with. its a cool idea but could be executed differently and achieve the same thing. A simple idea maybe a cross hair like icon and you press the button once an icon or halo like icon gets small enough to be in the middle of the cross hair instead of a bar, but i also i have not actually played the game. i feel like this idea would be easier to look at and wouldn't take up as much space on the screen.

ArchivedUser

also keep the tab targeting! it wouldn't feel like an mmo with out it!

ArchivedUser

Boes83 said:

although i was not at pax, and did not have the chance to play. I seen enough videos of it by now, and hear enough people talk about it by now, that it does leave some concern! 

the comments i heart were sluggish combat, slow combat and the tab targeting that thrown most people off. As of what i could see on the videos it did seem some what clunky. Whit hit boxes on mobs and people not yet in proportion, and skills not yet being optimized.

One could argue if tab targeting still has a place in the mmo world as most new MMO's seem more action combat oriented. 

and most new MMO's have been terrible, if they weren't we would not all be talking about an mmo thats 2 years out. BDO has fun combat but that's all it has. its basically a single player game with an auction house. grouping has almost no benefit. 

this is suppose to be a group focused game with the trinity. full action combat does not work with this type of game.

ArchivedUser

I'll just shortly state that I do not care at all if combat is "unique".

I just care that it is good and enjoyable.

ArchivedUser

PLEASE STOP MENTIONING THE POSER BLACK DESERT ONLINE! 

TERA GUYS! COME ON!