Can you kill an NPC?

ArchivedUser

In AOC will it be possible to kill an NPC? Assuming they haven't decided this yet have they alluded to NPC's having a health bar that players can drain. If so, would they respawn? I could see how an NPC giving a quest and was then killed by a salty individual could be quite problematic. Or are they just going to be immortal like NPC's are in other games.

ArchivedUser

They have mentioned that npcs can be killed during node sieges and monster coin events and that if the siege is successful certain ones may remain dead. But I don't think we will be able to kill npcs permanently in regular gameplay.

ArchivedUser

NPCs can be killed.
Since players can respawn, we should expect that NPCs can respawn as well.
Some should die permanently - others should reappear later in the narrative.
I think the hope should be that recurring NPCs important to the narrative won't behave exactly the same - as if they had never been killed.

ArchivedUser

I could imagine that some NPC could die during the storyline. Once you reached the quest in which the NPC dies, it just wouldn't appear for you anymore in the game world, but others that didn't complete the quest could still see it.

As for Player vs NPC, as people above me stated, it's possible.

ArchivedUser

Some Steven quotes to help clarify this.

ArchivedUser

^^^
I think that's specifically for node/city NPCs, though.

ArchivedUser

FliP said:

I could imagine that some NPC could die during the storyline. Once you reached the quest in which the NPC dies, it just wouldn't appear for you anymore in the game world, but others that didn't complete the quest could still see it.

As for Player vs NPC, as people above me stated, it's possible.

Ashes doesn't have phasing.
Also, Ashes doesn't really have static quests such that players can hours or days or weeks later pursue the same questline other players completed earlier.
In general, Saru's Hunger won't be in the game any longer for Group B to kill after Group A has already killed that boss.

ArchivedUser

I've always enjoyed when a city is raided and NPCs take a bit to respawn, always added an interesting dynamic for pvp

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

Ashes doesn't have phasing.
Also, Ashes doesn't really have static quests such that players can hours or days or weeks later pursue the same questline other players completed earlier.
In general, Saru's Hunger won't be in the game any longer for Group B to kill after Group A has already killed that boss.

This is nonsense. 

ArchivedUser

We don't have much to go on right now, but here is some official information from the Devs regarding quests.

ArchivedUser

Bajjer said:

Dygz said:

Ashes doesn't have phasing.
Also, Ashes doesn't really have static quests such that players can hours or days or weeks later pursue the same questline other players completed earlier.
In general, Saru's Hunger won't be in the game any longer for Group B to kill after Group A has already killed that boss.

This is nonsense. 

You can't just waltz in, drop that and walk away with giving a reason.

I'm legit curious what you mean.

ArchivedUser

Bajjer said:

Dygz said:

Ashes doesn't have phasing.
Also, Ashes doesn't really have static quests such that players can hours or days or weeks later pursue the same questline other players completed earlier.
In general, Saru's Hunger won't be in the game any longer for Group B to kill after Group A has already killed that boss.

This is nonsense. 

To be fair, it's as tangible as any other concept considering what we have to go on at this point.

ArchivedUser

It makes sense (as in real world) that if you, for example, kill a blacksmith in town, that particular blacksmith would be dead, but new guy (new NPC) would come and take his place as blacksmith, since town needs blacksmiths.

So (at least for regular NPCs) when NPC is killed, this particular NPC Bill the blacksmith would no longer be there, however John the blacksmith would take a job as a new blacksmith and start working there.

I guess this could be done with all NPCs, even the quest NPCs. Quests could remain the same (or even could change), they would just be given out by new NPC that came to the spot.

ArchivedUser

Karthos said:

Bajjer said:

Dygz said:

Ashes doesn't have phasing.
Also, Ashes doesn't really have static quests such that players can hours or days or weeks later pursue the same questline other players completed earlier.
In general, Saru's Hunger won't be in the game any longer for Group B to kill after Group A has already killed that boss.

This is nonsense. 

You can't just waltz in, drop that and walk away with giving a reason.

I'm legit curious what you mean.

Sure I can.

But… If anyone sincerely believes that any dev team is going to spend weeks of development time coming up with quests that only one person will ever do, then I really don’t know what to say to that.

This isn’t going to be some next-gen sci-fi dynamically evolving ecosystem where the entire world changes due to the events of every single player where it is a first-come, first-served experience situation. How do I know this?

Not because I have any specific knowledge, not because I am a game designer or software engineer, not because I have a dev quote. It is because there isn’t the computing power on the planet that could institute this kind of thing in a real world environment with tens of thousands of players concurrently. 

We can do some pretty amazing things but this is a computer game. Why anyone expects it to be 25 years ahead of current computer technology really baffles me.

We have a dynamically changing environment (seasons, nodes, etc). This in itself is exciting and I have faith that it can be implemented beautifully, simply because it is just ambitious enough, just forward-thinking enough. It is pushing the genre forward but it is grounded in the reality of the technology available. It is a step on from the dynamic public quests instituted in Warhammer Online. 

That was a step too far for that team, but the idea was sound and was a great building block for the genre and has led us to where we are. This is why I like Intrepid so much. They are blending what has worked in MMOs for the last 15 years with what they see as the next step forward for the genre. This isn’t just a nostalgia trip. We are moving into the future.

The limitation here is not our imagination, it is the technology we have available. Maybe when we reach the singularity we will be able to create games like “Better than Life” but for now this is still in the realm of science fiction.

Let us imagine away, brainstorm till our heads hurt. I love that stuff, I spend a lot of my day doing it. And I love doing that here too. I only have a problem when nonsense is spouted as fact, because some people might believe that and turn away from this game due to it. And I don’t want anyone to turn away from this game, that has the potential to be so awesome, unless it is a solid fact that clashes fundamentally with their playstyle.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

It makes sense (as in real world) that if you, for example, kill a blacksmith in town, that particular blacksmith would be dead, but new guy (new NPC) would come and take his place as blacksmith, since town needs blacksmiths.

So (at least for regular NPCs) when NPC is killed, this particular NPC Bill the blacksmith would no longer be there, however John the blacksmith would take a job as a new blacksmith and start working there.

I like this idea. There could also be potential for the new Blacksmith to sell slightly different things based on a new set of skills.

I feel that it could, however, once again be abused by people purposefully killing NPCs to either annoy other players (we know what people are like, right?) or by people killing an NPC until they achieved the desired outcome of services.

Interesting thought though.

ArchivedUser

Death to all.

ArchivedUser

Bajjer said:

Gothix said:

It makes sense (as in real world) that if you, for example, kill a blacksmith in town, that particular blacksmith would be dead, but new guy (new NPC) would come and take his place as blacksmith, since town needs blacksmiths.

So (at least for regular NPCs) when NPC is killed, this particular NPC Bill the blacksmith would no longer be there, however John the blacksmith would take a job as a new blacksmith and start working there.

I like this idea. There could also be potential for the new Blacksmith to sell slightly different things based on a new set of skills.

I feel that it could, however, once again be abused by people purposefully killing NPCs to either annoy other players (we know what people are like, right?) or by people killing an NPC until they achieved the desired outcome of services.

But if you are talking about NPC's away from a node, then yes.

ArchivedUser

Would be wierd if npcs could be killed, that would allow for alot of grief.

ArchivedUser

1. NPCs can be killed (During sieges)
(Most likely new NPCs will replace dead NPCs)

Bajjer said:
Sure I can.

But… If anyone sincerely believes that any dev team is going to spend weeks of development time coming up with quests that only one person will ever do, then I really don’t know what to say to that.

Monster NPCs will respawn.
However, they have confirmed that there will be items that can only be gotten once in the server. Meaning that there most likely will be some quests(hidden or not) that can only be completed once.
(Think they also mentioned quests that can only be done once somewhere, don't have the source tho)

ArchivedUser

Bajjer said:

But… If anyone sincerely believes that any dev team is going to spend weeks of development time coming up with quests that only one person will ever do, then I really don’t know what to say to that.

Sure, you do.

Bajjer said:

There isn’t the computing power on the planet that could institute this kind of thing in a real world environment with tens of thousands of players concurrently. 

We can do some pretty amazing things but this is a computer game.

Tasks, quests, events are procedurally generated based on how players interact with the environment - especially how players build-up and destroy settlements, encampments, villages, towns, cities and metropolises.

lexmax has already provided some of the dev quotes.
"Tasks will come and go."
"Want to stay away from 'daily quests'."
"Repetition won't be part of that progression."
"We want enough stuff to do in the game where you "can't do them all".

Here are a couple more:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/UYn9in9UrEs?start=1871

Ashes of Creation Livestream June 30, 2017

AKIL:  One of the things that I love about the utility effects is that i feel like it's going to make the world feel more alive. That the players are going to interact with it and maybe they're going to get a little bit of story, maybe a little advance to a dungeon... it's going to make it feel less like a static MMO that is unchanging. You're going to have some real interaction with the environment.

AKIL:  And because of the node system, the world's not going to always be static. So, something like this is going to be important as you're exploring around because a place that you were at before might not be safe any longer. There might be an ambush there that wasn't there yesterday.

In the context of this discussion...
Saru's Hunger is an open world dungeon.
When one group defeats Saru's Hunger, that quest will be over.
There won't be another group with the same quest coming along later to defeat Saru's Hunger again.
The narrative will change.
There will be new tasks and quests for that dungeon later.
Ashes doesn't have phasing, where an NPC appears for some players but not for others.
Although, there was a time where people couldn't imagine the concept of phasing.

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

Also, Ashes doesn't really have static quests such that players can hours or days or weeks later pursue the same questline other players completed earlier.

This is what you initially said. This is nonsense. We have multiple statements to the contrary. We know there will be static quests. 

Unfortunately (or fortunately as the case may be) this is the last time I shall respond to a post written by you. Your pattern of making sweeping categorical statements, having them refuted and then conflating and obfuscating the actual discussion by writing long posts dealing with completely different points, or different aspects of the point, is evidenced far and wide. 

In this instance instead of talking about the fact that there will be static quests, which you stated there wouldn't, you pivot and talk about tasks, daily quests, and vague quotes that have a passing relevance.

It is a shame that you do this, because sometimes you make good points but they are often lost amongst the garbage, trollish behaviour. As time progresses and we get more solid information, officially posted on a website or blog, your ability for hyperbole and circular logic will diminish.

Yes there will be some events that will occur once and if you aren't there for that, then you'll miss out. This isn't a new concept - games have been doing this part for years (15 years ago we would have GMs pop into a game and create an event that was a one-off).

What I am excited about with Ashes is that the world itself will be able to change in ways we can't predict. With the whole node-locking caused by the advancement of a neighbouring node, we will have no two servers the same and content and context will change.

But we will still have some static quests and some of these will be epic stories. Some may only be unlocked once a specific Metropolis is reached and some may never appear on a server because the combination of Metropolis type and zone just don't occur. I think that is awesome. It really means that each server can be truly unique and you can be a participant in your own story.

Sorry to the OP, and others in this thread, that this went so far off-topic. 

I've said my piece. I'll get my coat.

ArchivedUser

The dev quotes corroborate what I've stated.
The topic of this discussion is NPCs deaths.
And the statement you quoted is in reply to your suggestion that a subsequent group of players would be able to an NPC after a previous group had already killed the NPC due to a mechanic like phasing .
That's not really the way quests work in Ashes.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯