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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Enemy Leveling
ArchivedUser
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I've seen every stream but I don't remember a time that leveling of monsters was discussed. (Probably was)
I'll get right to it, ALL mobs should be able to level up, just as we can. (obviously to a lesser extent) Just as we aquire skills, enemy should have skills than be unlocked, not just basic skills. These enemy skills wouldn't be as much as players get, it would be there to cement the narrative that enemies have taken over half of Verra and have been mutated due to the corruption, thus aquiring some of the power that the corruption gives.
My idea on how this would be is that mobs will be able to level 3 or 5 times.
An average mob starts out with their basic attack only at level 1. Once they gain experience and level up (which would be from killing other enemies, killing players, or lasting in the environment for a long-time without being killed) they gain 1 skill.
Example: Some wolves are in a pack of 5, this pack is lucky enough to wander to a new undiscovered location just as player start to colonize the area, after 1.5 days of not being killed, this pack levels up. Now, at the level 2 all these wolves will have the benefits of increased health, damage, and a new skill like: "Bite" or "Take Down"
If a wolf proceeds to live, say for another 1.5 days or maybe just 1 day now, it levels up again and gains more benefits.
*You might say, "Nope, Chudyie. Mobs are going to appear stronger or weaker based on the progression of the node they live around."*
Yes, this solves the problem of having a level 1 wolf in a Node at level 4, but, come on... think. How do mobs get to these high levels? (they are liteally spawned in the game) but, lets be more realistic... If a evil treant is level 35, it obviously has lived a while, been able to kill some weak contracted warriors and small enemies that it came across. It's not as smart as the races, but it's lived long enough to learn new ways to kill its enemies, maybe through using weak magic attacks or blunt, wooden weapons.
Mobs shouldn't be dependent on our arrival to a node to start leveling. They've been there, living. So, let them level and learn just as we plan to do.
Max level mobs, at 3 or 5 (argh...cant decide max level) should be able to create their own habitats. (A dug out opening in a cave inhabited by a max level wolf and its posse, a small pueblo home designed by the simple minded goblins or birdrace) Players can disrupt their living, aggroing them and take the treasures that they've picked up. Maybe find a receipe in the birdman language for a type of remedial potion or food or weapon.
These homes serve as future dwelling for other leveled up mobs, or they could be destroyed by the weather i.e (rudimentary pueblo dissolved by rain)
TLDR; Mobs should be able to level up and learn a few skills to increase their power and build small homes/communities.
I'll get right to it, ALL mobs should be able to level up, just as we can. (obviously to a lesser extent) Just as we aquire skills, enemy should have skills than be unlocked, not just basic skills. These enemy skills wouldn't be as much as players get, it would be there to cement the narrative that enemies have taken over half of Verra and have been mutated due to the corruption, thus aquiring some of the power that the corruption gives.
My idea on how this would be is that mobs will be able to level 3 or 5 times.
An average mob starts out with their basic attack only at level 1. Once they gain experience and level up (which would be from killing other enemies, killing players, or lasting in the environment for a long-time without being killed) they gain 1 skill.
Example: Some wolves are in a pack of 5, this pack is lucky enough to wander to a new undiscovered location just as player start to colonize the area, after 1.5 days of not being killed, this pack levels up. Now, at the level 2 all these wolves will have the benefits of increased health, damage, and a new skill like: "Bite" or "Take Down"
If a wolf proceeds to live, say for another 1.5 days or maybe just 1 day now, it levels up again and gains more benefits.
*You might say, "Nope, Chudyie. Mobs are going to appear stronger or weaker based on the progression of the node they live around."*
Yes, this solves the problem of having a level 1 wolf in a Node at level 4, but, come on... think. How do mobs get to these high levels? (they are liteally spawned in the game) but, lets be more realistic... If a evil treant is level 35, it obviously has lived a while, been able to kill some weak contracted warriors and small enemies that it came across. It's not as smart as the races, but it's lived long enough to learn new ways to kill its enemies, maybe through using weak magic attacks or blunt, wooden weapons.
Mobs shouldn't be dependent on our arrival to a node to start leveling. They've been there, living. So, let them level and learn just as we plan to do.
Max level mobs, at 3 or 5 (argh...cant decide max level) should be able to create their own habitats. (A dug out opening in a cave inhabited by a max level wolf and its posse, a small pueblo home designed by the simple minded goblins or birdrace) Players can disrupt their living, aggroing them and take the treasures that they've picked up. Maybe find a receipe in the birdman language for a type of remedial potion or food or weapon.
These homes serve as future dwelling for other leveled up mobs, or they could be destroyed by the weather i.e (rudimentary pueblo dissolved by rain)
TLDR; Mobs should be able to level up and learn a few skills to increase their power and build small homes/communities.
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Edit: To expand on your point, the range of levels in mobs surrounding a node could be one way to account for age differences of the mobs lore-wise.
Mobs in the world will level as nodes are developed.
Node B at Stage 4 can be responsible mobs of higher levels appearing in ZOI W far across the globe even if Node W remains at Stage 0.
We'll have to see how the details work out.
What I don't want to see is the likes of Fippy Darkpaw constantly respawning at Level 5, always spouting the same dialogue.
Since player characters can be resurrected, it should be possible for NPCs to be resurrected as well but, if so, I'd want Fippy to reappear as a Level 15 adversary and a Level 25 adversary...advancing the narrative with new dialogue and objectives and abilities.
If Saru's Hunger isn't vanquished within a few months, sure have her respawn as a higher level mob with more minions. And have her miasma of influence spread farther throughout the world.
Should be possible, given the way nodes are supposed to work.
One of the dev goals is for the server to level as nodes progress and adventurers level. A key repercussion is mobs leveling.
Might not be exactly the same mechanism as the Level 5 Fippy Darkpaw model literally gaining new abilities. I think it's more likely to be that Level 5 model being replaced by a Level 15 model, but...
we'll probably see the broad strokes of what you're envisioning.
I don't think mobs will be building homes and communities.
They will be populating and re-populating dungeons.
We don't quite have the tech to do that well, yet.
But, people are working on it.
Jeff B has said that they aren't going to be as ambitious as StoryBricks.
Hopefully, Ashes will be a few steps closer to that than what is available in current MMORPGs.
We will just have to see how far the devs will be able to go.
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Shouldn't make the game difficult for new players.
There will always be content for them, too.
Occasionally mobs would form raids, and then travel around targeting specifically those players that killed them the most.
There would be no safe place!
A system in which a mob gains experience if he actually managed to kill a player makes more sense. If mobs level over time, we would end up with high level areas only.
Without regarding the level of the monster, there should be a system of leveling that monsters have, just something to add more depth and more challenge. So what I meant was more of a "Class C mob, Class B mob, Class A mob" type of leveling. Not leveling that literally affects their levels. i.e (level 1 mobs will stay level 1, but if they are able to meet requirement to level, they will come a level 1 Class C mob) 1 skill added to them, more hp, more damage, even if only a level 1 mob.
BUT, this kind of leveling shouldn't be as quick as 1 day.. I was just giving an example. This class mob leveling would be slow because, their mobs after all...
@Dygz mentioned static MOBs (as far as difficulty) in beginning areas, I suppose that means around gates. If that area was only able to prepare you for the MOBs originally designed at your level, but you were a late starter so all those MOBs have been leveled/augmented, the game would carry a greater difficulty for you just because you weren't there day 1.
I like the thought of a dungeon going uncleared long enough for everything in that dungeon to get a bit harder. So if the quest starts at level 5, but nobody finishes it, when a player finally gets around to it suddenly its a level 7 quest. That would be fn and go along with the consequences IS speaks highly about.
This could apply to a roaming MOB, assuming one always gets away it can train it's buddies better. Not all MOBs will be roaming MOBs though, at least not that I am aware of. I know IS mentioned having "some" but I am unsure of what that means.
I gave an example of Fippy Darkpaw advancing in level and with new dialogue.
I'm not expecting that Fippy would stay in the same zone as his story progresses.
Rather he should travel the world, much like players do.
Even starter areas need to be dynamic.
Nodes at starter areas should be able to rise and fall, similar to other nodes, but...
As cities and metropolises lock the max level of the nodes near them, I would expect Gateways would do the same - such that the node(s) right next to Gateways can't progress past Stage 2 or 3. And I would expect the max level of mobs near Gateways to lock at a relatively low level as well.
That doesn't mean that the same named mobs should always be there.
The starter areas near Divine Gateways also need to have dynamic narratives - just like every other location in the game.
Which means familiar mobs should leave and new mobs should appear.
But, even the mobs and NPCs that stay there forever should have different dialogue, tasks, quests and events associated with them over time.
It will never be the case that all the mobs in a ZOI are at max level.
There will always be a mix of levels.
And we should expect the levels to be somewhat related to node progression, such that, in general, the levels of the mobs ebb and flow as the stages of the nearby nodes rise and fall.
Game difficulty for players who start months and years after launch will be subjective.
If a new player starts on an established server, they will have an easier time gaining access to mounts and other services that long-time players can provide. But, they will have a more difficult time find a location for a freehold or snagging an in-node house... possibly even an apartment. The starter area will likely be easier, in many ways, than on a brand new server.
On brand new server, players will have to work harder to set up the services they need. For instance, it will take longer to obtain mounts because players will have to tame the initial mounts and wait for services to come online that allow them to advance animal husbandry to a point that mounts become relatively common rather than rare.
Established servers also means that high level player characters can help newbies with the higher level mobs in the starter areas.
Especially because the "portals" are Divine Gateways, it will be interesting to see if there are incentives for characters focusing on religion to recruit more adherents to their faiths as newbies step through the Gateways.
I don't think it's going to be a case of individual generic mobs gaining levels and abilities. A mob directly training other mobs won't happen in Ashes - the AI will not be that advanced.
Rather, new mobs with a higher level will replace the older mobs.
Even with Fippy Darkpaw, the model would eventually be replaced with a higher level model, rather than the same model literally advancing in level and gaining new abilities.
Players would experience it as Fippy gaining levels and abilities, but mechanically it will most likely be different models of Fippy rather than the same model of Fippy leveling in a similar manner as player characters.
If I understand correctly... a Level 5 Giant Rat might come with 3 Ranks: each Rank adding a new ability.
That Level 35 Treant would be using its natural abilities at Rank 1.
At Rank 5, perhaps it's wielding a spellbook or an ax acquired from a defeated humanoid.
I think that would be more likely occur with named mobs than with generic mobs.
Gaining new abilities would probably still affect level significantly - typically we don't even know the actual level of a mob, they have a range of difficulty of gray, green, white, yellow, red and elite compared to a specific player character level and we players assign a level to the mob based on when they con as equal to our current level.
At the starting area, Fippy might advance from green to elite. (From the viewpoint of a Level 1 character)
Coupled with my vision of how things should work... Fippy, if within the narrative he survives as a prominent antagonist, would be replaced by a new, higher level model at a different ZOI and again move from green to elite. (From the viewpoint of a Level 15 character)
I would like to make the following notes so that you, and everyone else, is made aware that I did not intentionally misquote you or that I somehow was unable to understand the purpose of this thread.
If a starting zone is not the zone(s) near the gate(s) players use to enter the world, especially level 1 starters, then I hope the area between the gate and a "Safe Area*" for beginners is small. I did not suggest you said they were around gates, just that I supposed, if they did exist, they would be around gates.
*By safe area I mean they won't get wiped before the get the feels for the controls.
Also, when I said "static" I was referring to their "always" being content for new players, as you said there would be. I also clarified "(as far as difficulty) in beginning areas." I did not mean static as in the same creature/mob/story/zone, hence the clarification after my choice of wording.
As for you clarifying that "It will never be the case that all the mobs in a ZOI are at max level." When I said "...regardless of what maximum level or power structure is given to a MOB, in this case it's likely all MOBS will eventually be at that level" I meant the "Ranks*" in whatever was being suggested. "Levels" was the term used in the OP, I was continuing with that choice of wording. I don't expect every MOB in a ZOI or the game to ever be all "maxed out" and nobody suggested that here.
*Ranks was not used in the OP, the suggested wording was "level" and there was reference to "skills." Hence my reference to "...level or power structure..."
I just want to clarify your clarification of what I said.
If you think I misquoted you by my choice of wording I apologize and stand corrected.
I know how much definitions/meaning/word-choice/etc. mean to you.
For everyone else, sorry to momentarily derail the thread.
I see the quote you were referring to now.
And, yeah, always having content for new players does obliquley refer to Gateways but not to the content being static. I think the content will still be dynamic but within a reasonable range of difficulty for new players.
The way nodes work, there should always be a mix of levels and, in this case, a mix of ranks... if Ashes implemented ranks.
1. Mobs can rank up (up to 3 or 5 times...)
i.e. "Level 10 Rank C"
2. When mobs rank, they roam to the appropriate area for their level AND rank (by this I mean a rank A level 40 mob would be deeper in a forest compared to a rank C level 40)
3. To prevent 100 level 30 Class A mobs from piling up, there will be an allowed limit. (Think of it as the mobs not wanting so much competition around them) This limit would depend on the ranking of the mob, A ranks could allow 20, B- ranks, 50 C- ranks, 100...
Anything else you guys can think of, or is this theory explored enough? I think another option would be to give mobs the ability to populate an area through "relations" and also by attracting monsters to them.