action bar instead as mouse targeting?

ArchivedUser

Instead of hitting a button on the action bar for melee characters, how about instead it places a small reticule somewhere on their body and you must mouse over it either within x time, or at a certain time, so its like you are swinging for a weakness you noticed while fighting them?   Feels more thematic, keeps your eyes on the screen and opponents, and you are moving the mouse naturally to look around in combat.  I imagine that will fix the main gripes with the keypress, you will actually feel you are hitting critical areas on enemies, and keeps the balance between skill and build.  I imagine this would make some dodgy characters very difficult for some classes to land a critical on, so may be a balance issue if you change that.  Sorry if anyone suggested already, this forum really needs search.

ArchivedUser

So you want to click to attack like minecraft?

ArchivedUser

Fleelix said:

So you want to click to attack like minecraft?

no, I meant instead of the timing minigame for normal attacks.  a little target pops up, move mouse over it, counts the same as hitting the bar in the right spot.

ArchivedUser

This is an interesting idea.
Tho with this system ppl would be forced to play in 1st person in combat
(The closer the camera, the bigger the targets)
Would also make melee professions by default better than ranged, tho I can agree that it would make sense in that kind of way, a lot of people would not like such a system that makes class preferences. 
Not to mention what about giant enemies?
Would the recticle be at their shoulder 3 meters up in the air where you cannot reach?

ArchivedUser

have mages stay the same, only melee gets this type of targeting. Either that or have each weapon get their own minigame.  Swords draw a slashing line, piercing gets the target selection, wands get draw a pattern, staves use the current system. I really don't think the minigame is a bad idea, just the execution of it is and I think it's something that can really make the game shine if it is polished enough.

ArchivedUser

Drawing patterns would be slower attackspeed than target selection and slash line, so still advantage on class tho

ArchivedUser

I don't see the appeal of adding a mini game onto combat. Isn't all we're doing is splitting the players attention without adding any more choice?
When the the minigame popup appears it's just some condition to mindlessly fulfill. It's not like the bar (or suggested mouse driven replacement) has in it different states that have merits in different circumstances. It's one specific task that asks from the player that if done correctly adds a bit more damage.
That's just tedious.

ArchivedUser

Undeadfred said:

I don't see the appeal of adding a mini game onto combat... It's one specific task that asks from the player that if done correctly adds a bit more damage.
That's just tedious.

I have yet to find an MMO where non pvp combat is anything but tedious after a month.  Once you have your rotation down it takes no thought, just repetition.  I'm primarily a twitch/skill (I suck but it's what I enjoy) gamer.  FFVIII with its trigger hit system made the game tolerable for me and I normally can't stand menu driven games.  Also, they said that the goal was that builds that don't use the focus bar at all would be equally viable so someone who doesn't enjoy my style of play could absolutely just not use those skills and stick to their skill rotations.

ArchivedUser

chaogoesmu said:

Undeadfred said:

I don't see the appeal of adding a mini game onto combat... It's one specific task that asks from the player that if done correctly adds a bit more damage.
That's just tedious.

I have yet to find an MMO where non pvp combat is anything but tedious after a month.  Once you have your rotation down it takes no thought, just repetition.  I'm primarily a twitch/skill (I suck but it's what I enjoy) gamer.  FFVIII with its trigger hit system made the game tolerable for me and I normally can't stand menu driven games.  Also, they said that the goal was that builds that don't use the focus bar at all would be equally viable so someone who doesn't enjoy my style of play could absolutely just not use those skills and stick to their skill rotations.

I don't disagree, but I think standard world pve gets boring largely because the content requires very little from the player. CC across most mmos is reserved for higher difficulty content or pvp, along with anyother ability that dosn't directly translate to more damage done.
I'm not opposed to the idea of adding a skill component to landing damage, or augmenting said damage in some way. Skill shots to land, abilities to detonate, ect. In fact I'm all for it.
The golden rule should be though that it allows for player choice, rather then just a blanket succeed or fail state.
So I'm pro more involved combat, but that involvement should be less a quick time event (as we all know how popular those are) and more something that tied to the function and identity of the ability.

ArchivedUser

Like VATS in Fallout?

ArchivedUser

I was thinking more like skill, shots, detonations, delayed abilities, holding down a button to charge up the damage.

Fictional example. I have an ability called Slam. Slam does y damage and that damage is amplified by x charge. I gain more charge by holding down the ability for up to 5 seconds.

Me and an enemy are brawling it out. I move into position to land my slam. Now I know that holding that the slam longer deals more damage, but we also know the enemy will try to do everything in his power to avoid being slammed. So now that I'm in range I have to decide, do I let go of the slam early and get the guaranteed damage, do I hold it longer in an attempt to land the big hit, or can I possibly cc him and then land a full slam.

This is a good way to add depth to a combat system, make it more action orientated, but also not distract from the players attention for the sake of adding another layer.

ArchivedUser

^ I don't think a like is enough to express how much i agree with what they said.

I'd like abilities to have different hit boxes and mechanics that give the players options on how to use them. I want mastery of my class to come from me learning how to use my abilities. I'm hoping skills are designed in a way that spamming them when they are off cooldown isn't the best way to use them.

ArchivedUser

Playing in 1st person shouldn't matter...

...if this hit box isn't based on target size, but its floats around where cca your target is and in between oval.

This oval would be placed cca where your target is, but since there could be many targets, oval could appear only at target closest to your cross hair in middle of screen, and when your cross hair approaches different target that becomes closer, it would show on that target.



This would be a bit of pain to develop though.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Playing in 1st person shouldn't matter...

...if this hit box isn't based on target size, but its floats around where cca your target is and in between oval.

This oval would be placed cca where your target is, but since there could be many targets, oval could appear only at target closest to your cross hair in middle of screen, and when your cross hair approaches different target that becomes closer, it would show on that target.



This would be a bit of pain to develop though.

But I actually like the idea that it's only on their body (so 1st person matters). That would mean that you could either choose to go 1st person and have a larder chance of hitting or go 3rd person and have a better view of the surrounding.

Some adjustments to the 3rd person might be necessary, since fighting several enemies in 1st person would be hard and if you were looking around in 3rd person, you might not be able to see the oppenent with the target at all.

This system in general is not optimized for crowds, but when fighting few enemies or maybe when PvPing, it would be really cool.