Skill timing bar will ruin your game

ArchivedUser

I'm not sure how you as developers actually manage to approve of a system that forces you to pay attention to a tiny bar below your character instead of paying attention to the screen and the environment. Please don't delete your own game cause of stupidity. 

ArchivedUser

I am against the slider as well, but keep in mind that the combat we could see during PAX is estimated to be just 30% complete. Intrepid is aware that people dislike the slider and are working on it.

ArchivedUser

When you compare it to Spammy Hack-&-Slash BDO .... its not that bad - but definitely needs more " Foundational Combat-Attributes " that can be further expanded upon in order make Combat more interesting. 

• As you know, BDO's NPCs' A.I. is dumb-down because its more Hack-&-Slash oriented ... which is the direct result as to why their PvE is bad. And i want my NPCs to give me a challenge & have some sort of Tactics that can be contested with Players.

EDIT: Yeah the OTE Bar kinda sucks, not bad for the 1st iteration - but it can be better expressed/ utilized.

ArchivedUser

I'm glad to hear that Flip and Eragale. It seemed like a really bad design to have people watch a bar instead of the actual screen and what is happening around you. And sorry for my dramatic post. I was just in a shock after watching the bar in action in a youtube video today (the first gameplay video I saw).

ArchivedUser

Agreed. In a game that's supposed to be about immersion I'd expect another kind of visual or audible queue

ArchivedUser

Falcogen said:

I'm not sure how you as developers actually manage to approve of a system that forces you to pay attention to a tiny bar below your character instead of paying attention to the screen and the environment. Please don't delete your own game cause of stupidity. 

I too have reservations about this but your message is a wee bit dramatic . I'm confident that Intrepid know of the communities concerns and I'm confident that they'd be open to change/adjust/improve it if indeed Alpha testing supports claims made on the basis of vids/or PAX. Believe in what their vision because Ashes promises to be amazing in so many ways, but I conceded your point @Falcogen, that if they stuff up the combat it will undermine everything.   

ArchivedUser

It was mentioned (in the latest stream) that the UI in the PAX demo was the first iteration in development. You'll be able to adjust the UI for the "weapon/keystroke" skill to suit your liking. The way they described was wanting "to have it so that it feels comfortable and accentuates skill".

So luckily it won't just be a bar BUT they will offer UI to suit a range of player skill.

ArchivedUser

There has been a good amount of feedback thus far and the bar is not popular and they know it, thus the devs have said they will be finding more ways to make the system feel more natural and intuitive. I have faith that they will achieve this just give them time, I mean it was the very first iteration of the mechanic.
My initial opinion was that it would have to go or be changed but when I sat back and thought about it I figured my opinion was not really valid as I have no hands on time playing. I need time playing before I can really form an opinion either way at this point.

ArchivedUser

ArchivedUser

There's other Pre-Alpha Footage that was even earlier than PAX

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfLj1B3b4LI&t=242s
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4vPGS8SXaw
  
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jn5yROQKzY&t=222s 

( There was a 4th ... but i think it was deleted off of YouTube  )

ArchivedUser

Devs Said in a video think it was Steve that the people that actually used it having a hands on experience provided positive feedback, that they liked it.  But really game is in pre alpha stage so there will be plenty of time to test it out in the future.

ArchivedUser

Falcogen said:

I'm not sure how you as developers actually manage to approve of a system that forces you to pay attention to a tiny bar below your character instead of paying attention to the screen and the environment. Please don't delete your own game cause of stupidity. 

The slider bar was confirmed to only be related to your basic skill, or skill 1/basic attack. It will not be connected to every skill. Time will tell how this works and is adopted by the community. They seem to be pretty good at taking criticism and developing ways to overcome issues. Give them time.

P.S. This is not really “stupidity”. They are re-inventing an entire genre and many things that they will be working on with the community over the next few years will be trial and error. Taking risks are sometimes necessary. You must be willing to fail in order to succeed.

ArchivedUser

Well from what Steve said the bar will abe to change size and location.  So if yo made it smaller, put it in the middle of the screen were your eyes will be.  And if They are smart enough to make it transparent.  (The Opaque transperancy Slider)  Then it will be fine.  In the videos in my personal opinion it is not in the ideal lacation.   

A player asked at pax if they could make the bar transperent.  But Steve did not actually confirm that it would be.  Just that will be able to change shape (circle), size adjustable and location adjustable.  But he did not say it would not be transperant iether.  If they did make it transparent then it could be pretty cool.  

From the looks of it they are not planning on having lots of abilities(wish they had at least 16 but prefer 20 to 25 .  When games have few abilities then systems have to be implemented that make game interesting.  (Dodge, Aim, Facing requirments, Distance and position.) Or it becomes boring.

ArchivedUser

I re-watched the videos to get a sense of what you were talking about.  I remember reading about it but hadn't yet seen it.  Now that I *think* I've seen it (skinny long bar below the character?), I gotta say I'm with you.  You have to move your eyes from the field of action and back again, forcing you to reassess the entire scene from scratch every time.  Rinse/repeat. 

No bueno, amigos.  That kinda is game-breaking. 

ArchivedUser

Most monsters have hp bars if the bar timer overlapped it then maybe it would be great.

ArchivedUser

The big problem with the time cast bars is that the minibar also moved every time, if they made it in the same spot you could "skill shot" it over time. But then again, if that was the case why add it. I don't know what the solution is here, maybe after playing with it a bit in alpha zero there will be a better understanding.

ArchivedUser

Why don't we wait at least alpha 0, to decide, what devs are doing right, and what should change?

ArchivedUser

I agree with above

ArchivedUser

It will be hard to judge what it is like until I actually get to play until then I reserve my judgement. The bar will be customizable and you will be able to place it on your screen where you desire, plus it only applies to your weapon skill, that's one of your 8 skills on your bar where you have to hit the slider.

ArchivedUser

im against this bar, it should be visually (by skill effect) possible to recognise if the combo is ready or not. then u can still keep focussing on the fight etc.

in elder scrolls online when a monster is charging a skill, you can see some animation below the feet of the monster. they could do the same for AoC, make some animation around or below the player, so he dont need a bar to recognise whats happening ;-)

ArchivedUser

For those that are against this feature it has been said many times that you will be able to change you UI and place it where you want.

Also if you go back and watch the video with the vars and out the video full screen you will find that it is not so difficult to see the bar though your peripheral vision. Do you guys want the same games you have already played or do you want something new.

Maybe give it a chance before you assume it is bad. Personally when I saw the bar thing my first thought was cool another element of skill added to the game. I am so tired of games that do everything for you and that are way to easy and takes no skill to defeat enemies.

I want a game that is challenging that requires some focus. Games being to easy and automated is the reason they fail cause people get bored. You should be happy that they are doing something new and you should at least try it out before you jump the guns to assume that it will be bad. How many times have you seen people say I had my doubts but once I tried it I found it to be great. This has happened time and again in the gaming industry.

Keep in mind UI is customizeable, this will probably allow you to change the size and location of the bar. Due to people concerns I wouldn't be surprised if they also had a few options of how it looked as well. Take a look at the video again and see just how hard it is to see where that line is though your peripheral vision, I think you will find it is not as hard as you might think.

ArchivedUser

To me, the "challenge" it added didn't relate well to the game. The challenge in a mmorpg's combat should come with knowing how to use your abilities and how play around your opponents abilities. The "challenge" this added was the same as if they made you play the game with one arm. Yes, it's an extra thing you have to do but i didn't think it was good for the combat. Should they also make us play the game with a bop it?

If people want to try it out cool, i'm all for that but I played the game and while you can make it out in your periph it still takes your focus away. At the end of the day, it was easier to just stare at it so you didn't miss a hit. It just wasn't a comfortable mechanic to use. I don't care how big or easy to see you can make the UI element, you will have to pay attention to it and that's something i'd prefer not to do.

Maybe they could keep it for the tab target auto and make a free aim option for the auto that rewards the player with focus for consecutive hits. You miss a shot, your combo resets same as if you missed the bar.

ArchivedUser

I think  the concept is okay, it's just the current implementation is kinda   I think they're trying to go for something like Absolver, but haven't gotten the visual/audio queues in the actual game world. Once they do, I'm sure it will be good.

ArchivedUser

The only thing that I dislike is the fact that paying attention to the bar will take away enjoyment of looking at the game, hopefully they will manage something.

ArchivedUser

Maybe your character should be the slider and externally exhibit the powerup?  Let me explain... characters could get brighter or have some  other visual indicator on them in places of their own sliders.  This is so that NPCs and players in the world show you when they are powering up an ability.  And your own character would behave likewise on your screen.  Thoughts?  Thread where this was already thought of?  Thanks for reading!

ArchivedUser

glak said:

Maybe your character should be the slider and externally exhibit the powerup?  Let me explain... characters could get brighter or have some  other visual indicator on them in places of their own sliders.  This is so that NPCs and players in the world show you when they are powering up an ability.  And your own character would behave likewise on your screen.  Thoughts?  Thread where this was already thought of?  Thanks for reading!

Interesting Idea.

I believe they said they would probably make it adjustable through the UI function.

 A thin vertical line next to the character as one of the UI options would be nice. Something that does not obstruct and yet is visible enough to be functional.

Transparency slider for UI could add to the less imposing aspect of the slider as well.

I deff like the Idea of the slider and it should stay in the game.