Come politely (or not) discuss, different loot systems!
ArchivedUser
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Let’s discuss Long Term Loot Systems! If that sentence doesn’t get you excited you might be in the wrong thread. Games each have their own personality when it comes to how they want players to get the best loot, and how it lets them keep it, and how they affect the rarity of those items over time. I will be listing a few, providing a reference on a couple, and asking how anyone feels about them. Let’s start!
Now fair warning, I don’t mean like grabbing an item from a boss. I mean in 5 years what items are going to be available and how do they compare to the cost from 5 years ago? Also EVENT items are not addressed here.
Example 1: The constant influx of better items in the world. (As seen in Runescape before microtransactions)
TL;DR: With the exception of items obtained from events, ALL items are always available to be received by players by killing mobs, quests, or other methods. The most expensive items are lowered in value by the addition of more powerful items released at later dates.
Pros:
1. You always have something to strive for no matter how long you have been playing for or what stage the game is in.
2. As time goes on the super powerful items decrease in price enough that even casual players can have a chance at obtaining them.
3. This keeps a healthy economy, by providing players a means to spend large amounts of money.
4. PVP gets more exciting as more complex and powerful items get integrated into PVP.
Cons:
1. No transmogrifying in this system. (changing image of weapon or armor)
2. Often the new most powerful boss requires the armor from the previous most powerful boss to defeat. Thus, requiring players to farm each level of equipment to fight each new boss.
3. Your bank value is constantly decreasing over time.
4. The newer a player is, the less they can compete with older players. Creating a gap in the community.
Example 2: Items are occasionally removed from the loot table (or just have the % chance of obtainment dropped) as new items are introduced into the game. (As seen in World of Warcraft)
TL;DR: New items are constantly replacing old items in terms of stats, but occasionally old items are removed from the loot table of past dungeons/raids if they are reworked. Older items usually have their value reduced as new items come out, with the exception of items that are discontinued.
Pros:
1. Items from the past can be extremely valuable. Giving you a sense of pride when having an item from long in the past. (Even if the benefit is usually just cosmetic.)
2. Transmogrifying in this system. Because items are removed from the loot table they become obsolete in terms of stats. For weapons/armor, you can make new items look like the old rare ones.
3. Rare drops make put you on cloud 9 when you get one! Getting a random item that just doubles your bank value is a game changer.
4. It gives items a sense of history… This sounds odd, but imagine being able to go to any Walmart right now and being able to purchase a Leonardo Da Vinci painting. Would they still be worth anything?
Cons:
1. Really obscure items can have a super high price with no real value except how few of them are in the game.
2. Wild market swings can bankrupt a player if the item is ever introduced in future patches.
3. Can make some goals impossible if you are wanting 1 specific item and it is removed from new drops and its price skyrockets.
4. Can make older dungeons/bosses worthless if nothing is done to give it a reason to be run. But… often older dungeons aren’t run anyways due to being low level and those are usually the ones who have their loot tables affected anyways.
Example 3: All items, available ALL the time. (Or the items make a comeback if they are event items at a later date.) All weapons have same stats at max level. (As seen in Guild Wars 2.)
TL;DR: When new items are relased the only value they have is cosmetic. All max level items have the same stats. Thus value of items are consistant, and new patches don't force you to grind to keep up.
Pros:
1. Even the worst player in the game can obtain the coolest looking legendary item just by playing for long enough. No skill required because the most powerful items can be purchased.
2. It creates a level playing field when doing raids/dungeons because if you are the max level you would naturally be able to get the best armor easily.
3. Easily able to level up other classes to play at the highest level once you have 1 max character. (assuming gold can be transferred from 1 character to another.)
4. You can always battle any boss or any raid without having to farm heavily.
Cons:
1. Guild Wars 2 did a money grab making the most unique and rare skins purchasable only through currency obtained through real money. Or converted from gold and an obscene rate through their official trading system. While it didn’t affect game balance it was still a horrible feeling.
2. No real late game advancement. Sure, there were raids and hard level dungeons. But once you are max level the legendary items that were 2000g had the same stats as my 50g weapon. Just they looked prettier.
3. The market was dull. Nothing ever stood out. Only the microtransactions got attention. (If you can’t tell I’m salty about this.)
4. No matter the drop, no boss could ever drop something AMAZING. There were no items that could give such a substantial value increase to my bank to make me jump in joy. MADE LOOT BORING!! (How is that possible?)
Example 4: Player crafting for the best possible items. (As seen in ???? I haven’t played an MMO where this is the main system only as an alternate)
TL;DR: Big items are not dropped by bosses/mobs but instead just resources you have to combine to create the most powerful weapons. Usually all max level items have same stats unless they are player made.
Pros:
1. Gives high value to crafting professions.
2. Makes Materials valuable throughout the entire game. Gives stable income.
3. Can give non-combat players a viable spot in a large guild.
4. Can give a sense of accomplishment for creating something if you can give it uniqueness.
Cons:
1. Players are still forced to grind for best materials, so the value of along grinding session isn’t rewarded with a completed item, but just 1 part of the ability to make that item.
2. Players forced to train crafting even if they are not wanting to. Often risking scams if a proper system isn’t in place if they don’t train crafting.
3. Doesn’t ever make anything valuable. Sure, trading in the stock market can be fun, but so is being able to buy a rare painting. Eliminating a part of the economy like that can make things boring.
OTHER THOUGHTS:
I like other things too, such as Unique quests from drops. Or Being able to do an Extremely difficult challenge to obtain something rare. Like allowing to learn skills from other classes if you can complete an insane challenge as that class. And other things like that, give another complete twist on in-game items. Yet they are NOT the main system. And while I want to see these type of things, they can be in any system and thus are not the main focus.
There are things to like about every system. And there are things to dislike about each one. The point of an MMO isn’t the features such as loot drops, while they are important. It is the feeling and emotions you have towards the game. In something like GW2, I had no feelings towards anything that dropped. It had a cool feature where yeah… even the worst player in the history of the game can eventually get a Legendary item. But… The feeling of not having anything unique… having nothing that sets me apart even if I had played since day 1… Left me feeling empty. The loot system should make me feel a part of this world. It should make you want to live in it and grow with it. And just as in real life things go away, the world evolves.
Personally, though…. I like items being removed from the game from time to time. I like having a large barrier of difficulty in getting the best items. I shouldn’t have to be in a massive guild or play 6 hours a day just to get the items in a timely manner though. I truly wonder what kind of system Ashes has in mind, but what do you think? What are some system you like? And I know I didn’t explain anything in depth but what do you like/dislike about those or other systems?
Comments
It sounds like the bonuses on drops will not necessarily be optimal for your character so the easiest way to get the best bonuses will be from a crafter as they can choose what goes on the gear they make.
http://aocwiki.net/Crafting
You will get the resources crafters need from both gathering and doing pve.
As nodes rise and fall, the available items will change. As we develop nodes, more monsters and dungeons start to show up. If a node gets sieged down then the things it brought will probably go away but the node that rises in it's place will bring new stuff.
http://aocwiki.net/Nodes
This is my current understanding of the system
But the materials to make the best drop from dungeons / raids / or pvp (Possibly). That way Raiding stays relevant and very necessary while not killing the crafting side of the game either.