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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
What RPG elements are lost/watered down when creating an MMO?
Title says it all...
What RPG elements are lost/watered down when creating an MMO?
Follow-up question... Why does this mentality persist?
What RPG elements are lost/watered down when creating an MMO?
Follow-up question... Why does this mentality persist?
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Comments
Maybe the story of a stand alone final fantasy is a bit more engaging, then again the budget for cut scenes CGI clips and voice acting is obviously much higher!
And in some kind of sense i guess you could say there is a clear distinction in what is the main quest/story line and what are pure side quests!
one last thing i guess is finding "secrets" with in the world have an extra dimension in stand alone RPG's
for the rest i would really not know what else would be 'lost' in any kind of way!
-Sure you could do the missions, but in the same way everyone else does.
-You could "talk" to most NPC's, but again, everyone else had the same options to a degree.
-Want to get creative, hopefully you can do that in the pre-defined world of rules/skills otherwise just do it the way it needs to be done.
Going from a video-game RPG to an MMO RPG... I agree with @Boes83 in that most things that are different are positives.
-Playing with friends
-Evolving community
-Rise & fall of guilds
Take Morrowind and how badly you can break it. Fortify int potions to make more powerful int potions to make more powerful int potions (you get the idea). Boost your stats to insane levels and make powerful spells. Soon you are levitating around the map shooting fireballs that one-shot everything in massive aoe.
Also a lot of games limit your flexibility and creativity to make sure you stay balanced and to make everything somewhat of a challenge.
Outside of becoming extremely powerful, I think the benefit of community and cooperation far outweighs it.
Frequently utility skills, like Disarm Trap and Decipher Script are lost as well.
Rather than sit in his throne room, King Varian or Thrall, would move through their city sometimes, and actually interact with the playerbase (the GM would be paid to RP as Varian/Thrall) older games had immersive mechanics like this. I remember forum RPG's to have it. But also some private servers. A GM would take control of Onyxia and fly around the world, for example.
You don't see that anymore ;_;
But Story wise, MMORPG usually do struggle when compared to normal RPG, since you arent the only hero/chosen . It is hard to create a story where you, one of thousands of players, actually impact the world around you with what you do. because the game simply cannot alter the surrounding or in game mechanics for just you. it wouldnt make sense.
They are both RPGs. One is single player, the other multi-player. I think you are placing too many limitations on MMOs by dismissing the thought so easily.
Why would forcing everything to change for 1 single individual have to be the way its done? Is that the only way a story and immersive environment should be created in an MMO? I would hope not.
In rpg's, at least good ones, when you complete a quest, kill a notable enemy, build something, etc, it is persistent and will continue to effect the rest of the game. In all mmo's I've played, this persistence and feeling of impact is missing. The only notable exception is eve online, because pretty much everything you do there has some kind of impact, and mostly you're only interacting with other players. Eso made a try at giving that feeling of impact, but it was fairly shallow... mostly limited to cut scenes or instanced areas.
I don't even know if anyone even looks into why this is?
Personally, I feel they should have RTS combined with MMORPG, with computer opponents, belonging to the factions we fight against... with backstories.... players can choose factions etc....
Classes that have Guildmasters, some being in seclusion for malevolent reasons.
Lots and lots of factions. Some at war so players can pick sides.
Territory and resource control.
In game currency should be created via control of the resources used to create the currency. Ie Gold, Silver, Copper mines.
Food should be a resource that is collected or created and is required as an upkeep to prevent the populus and from starving and decreasing in numbers.
Farming should require land to produce.
The establishment of towns that can grow into larger cities.
All the goodies that come with towns. Lumbermills, blacksmithing, taverns, etc... all have a purpose and provide players with a purpose.
Natural Resources depleting and requiring time to return. This would promote expansion and exploration for more resources.
And much more... anything else people think should be in games?
They are also loathe to take anything away from the player or restrict/hamper them due to the plot. Take for example ffxiv. in 2.55 the main character was a suspected criminal, fleeing one of the major cities. once that cutscene was over I could continue to walk everywhere with impunity, as if everything got resolved in mere moments. there is also a sense of impact that is lost. everyone is railroaded into the same opinions or decisions that do not carry weight with the plot. I turn someone down for something in the main quest? the main quest does not proceed until I change my mind and say yes.
One: make every npc/named mob unique, with permadeath, and fully interactive with their own personality, traits etc, making them feel completely alive. Think log horizon. I love that anime btw.
Two: remove all npcs, system generated quests, and primary mobs, and give those roles to actual players. In this case, a player needs wood to make a bow, they could go gather it themselves, or generate a quest for it. A player gains the leadership position of a city or town, by convincing the town's other players to accept them. A player delves into a dungeon, and after clearing it, decides to research necromancy and raises an army of skeletons, making the player similar to a dungeon boss. Etc.
The first option is, I think, the ultimate form for any classical mmorpg. The second is the ultimate form of a sandbox mmo.
I like this idea of making every player an "NPC", but not just a hobbiest, like literally a part of environment. But it'd be very dangereous when system make a proffesion(let's say tailor) less important than others, then "forcing" people to become from those proffesions and putting tailors in such bad position.
In your example of a tailor for instance. Suppose there is a newly founded settlement in a distant node. When it's started, there are just the original settlers and the skills they brought along. Tailoring, leatherworking, weapon or armor smithing, etc, would be... too advanced for that kind of settlement, the support structure wouldn't be there until the original settlers built the place up. As the settlement grew in size, player population, and economy, demand would grow for more advanced goods or services without the need of long travel. So an entrepreneur looking to make a fortune would hear about this, they would learn tailoring and travel to the settlement, filling that demand. Alternatively, the person may think it more profitable to set up a trade caravan with more advanced goods than the settlement could make. This goes on ad infinitum.
In this kind of world, the game simply lays the canvas, and provides the tools. It is up to the players to tell the story.
Eve online fits this example to a certain degree. The stories that come out of that game are amazing. And all of them were completely player born.
I really like this idea. It'd make the community being in such dynamic.
Check out this MMORPG: "Chronicles of Elyria". Supposed to be out in 2017. But now comfirmed to be out in 2018-2019. It has everything you said.
Also, about immersion, Ultima Online did a perfect job in that aspect, 20 years ago when people were still using 56K internet. I hope that game can inspire more upcoming mmorpg.
Anyways, I believe EVE created a very special environment for a player economy that has not been duplicated in any other MMO, as far as I know.
EVE has starting territory for every faction. You do quests, work towards upgrading your ship. Join a Corporation? aka guild....whatever... and go out into the danger zone. The closer you were to your starting NPC controlled faction, the safer the areas were... each had a security rating, and pirates would basically stay clear from high security zones, frankly because they would get owned by the NPC security ships. The further you go out, though, the more likely you are to encounter pirates and or pirate players, who want to kill you for your goodies or just cuz.
"Guilds" would claim territories out in 0 security space for resources? I don't honestly know what purpose it served, other than that.
To be more specific, MMO is about how you can kill someone for no purpose such that you rock. And you kill the mobs for the only purpose of making your gears uber and shining.
RPG is more about to kill for a more decent purpose.
When you need players to change whats going in the world, you may not get the story that the creators had envisioned and the quality of the stories go down.
Let's use World of Warcraft... Expansions force you to partake in a particular story. These stories are usually way better than anything that the masses can create because the players are limited to specific choices at character creation. The amount of creativity becomes significantly diminished because of this. There needs to be some form of intervention by the Devs to prevent things from becoming stagnant. If the AI could change the surroundings without players, you can become part of an ongoing story, while making your own during that process.
The example of where someone raises an army of skeletons and becomes a powerful Lich is really cool and would be extremely OP until that is dealt with, but people have to sleep and once Mr. Player Lich goes to bed, all of a sudden, immersion goes down. The effect can only persist as long as a player is online. In Chronicles of Elyria, it sounds like when you log out, your character remains in game and starts behaving with an AI persona... interesting... but...hmmm... you'll die while offline and not even know about it.