Do you think that AoC should contain "Loot Boxes"?

ArchivedUser

NOTE: Due to the nature of how different a "Loot Box" system can be, I decided to make the "Yes" answer include a but clause because saying yes to a system without any information about it seems unlikely. I considered making this just a discussion post, but I figured everyone would give the age old "Why didn't you make this a poll?" line.

NOTE: Sorry if this topic has been covered. I was away for a while and I checked the first few pages of recent discussions before posting.

The system I am referring to is the randomized loot purchasing system that has become prevalent in many games today. In this system, you buy a chest, box, bag, etc. that contains a completely random set of items. This system can take on many different forms including: Overwatch, HoTS, ESO, GW2, etc. There are a lot of different opinions and ideas about the system, and I'm curious to see what the AoC forum community has to say about it.

Here are some links to YouTube videos discussing the topic of Loot Boxes (all credit for this content goes to the creators of the videos).

Isarii's Critical Writ

Dreamcast Guy

The Know

ArchivedUser

No....just.....no....loot boxes are a baaaaaaaad idea.

If im going to pay extra money for a cosmetic item...i  want to buy that item, not a box and "hope" i get it. Loot boxes have their place in games. MMO's are not them.

ArchivedUser

No, i hate that system, youre giving money into what is basically a gambling machine, if you are offering something to me for money that i want i buy it but if you are saying "give me money and maybe you'll get what you want... but probably not" i'll not buy it, and i'll not want to support you in other ways either.


Not only that, the system is very exploitative, taking advantage of vulnerable people with gambling addictions. I find it disgusting and absolutely do not want to see it in AoC

ArchivedUser

Bloodmero said:

No....just.....no....loot boxes are a baaaaaaaad idea.

If im going to pay extra money for a cosmetic item...i  want to buy that item, not a box and "hope" i get it. Loot boxes have their place in games. MMO's are not them.

I completely agree. I thought that Isarii had a great point in that consumers lose more-so in a Loot Box system. Do you think that IS will go with the "common" trend of putting in Loot Boxes? Maybe this is a question to be asked to them in a Livestream.

ArchivedUser

Mooseknee10 said:

 Do you think that IS will go with the "common" trend of putting in Loot Boxes? Maybe this is a question to be asked to them in a Livestream.

I dont't, I will by hugely shocks and disappointed if they do. I am 99% sure they wont based of what i have seen them do and how they actually care about the community and us that are buying and going to play their game.

ArchivedUser

@Bloodmero So, slight Devil's Advocate. I play HoTS and I have never spent money on the game. However, I have a plethora of cosmetic items for all sorts of different heroes because of the free loot boxes that are given away for playing the game. I even have extra currency from those loot boxes to "purchase" specific cosmetics. All this while not paying a penny. Would a system such as that be that bad for AoC?

Btw, I agree that loot boxes should 100% be avoided because there is a slippery slope to where skins will only be available through purchasing certain loot boxes (see the horrific Smite model). Also, the "currency" I mentioned before with HoTS only accrues at a small rate and it is because I played so frequently and was so picky that I have enough to spend without spending actually money.

ArchivedUser

No! This does not align with Intrepid's vision of a non-p2w game.

ArchivedUser

hmm loot boxes kinda or the pinnacle of RNG!

I do believe that i remember seeing a stream, with Steven throwing a tantrum, about him buying boxes worth up to 300 dollars. For an item that just a few weeks later was released in the cashshop of that particular game.

It was IMO both a testament towards not liking cashshops as well as the cringeworthiness towards RNG! Both i feel will be in a good shape when the game goes live, so no loot boxes (to RNG), and only cosmetic items in what ever form of cashshop      

ArchivedUser

It warms my heart to know how against Loot Boxes this community is.

ArchivedUser

@Boes83 I had forgotten that exchange! Hopefully he does carry that feeling forward and we don't see an RPG based Loot System.

ArchivedUser

No, na, non, hемає, nein, geen, ne, ingen, όχι, 没有, nei, nej, NO!  

ArchivedUser

I feel like loot boxes are a bad thing when they are in cash shops but as a feature that require no physical money being poured into the game is fine. So imagine a treasure trove of some kind dropped by random enemies that you open and get a random cosmetic from as a rare drop and can get you cosmetics from a normal loot table. As an ingame feature it isn't bad.

As a cashop feature it is terrible and shouldn't be in place

ArchivedUser

i hope no. this game dont need this stupid system of loot IMO

ArchivedUser

JikanMcA said:

I feel like loot boxes are a bad thing when they are in cash shops but as a feature that require no physical money being poured into the game is fine. So imagine a treasure trove of some kind dropped by random enemies that you open and get a random cosmetic from as a rare drop and can get you cosmetics from a normal loot table. As an ingame feature it isn't bad.

As a cashop feature it is terrible and shouldn't be in place

Your reasoning is spot on dude. ME: Shadow of War has a system where you purchase loot boxes with in game currency and it just gives you average gear in case you cant find decent gear at your current level. Loot boxes that can ONLY be purchased with in-game currency would be awsome  I would grind my face off just to buy them like an addi

ArchivedUser

Like @JikanMcA said,
if it's a cash shop thing, then,
NO
if it's a in-game event-like things requiring nothing but effort from the players, then,
yes

Kratz said:

No, na, non, hемає, nein, geen, ne, ingen, όχι, 没有, nei, nej, NO!  

You didn't include Azerbaijani, Arabic, Armenian, Albanian, Burmese, Estonian, Finnish, Georgian, Hungarian, Indonesian, Japanese, Korean, Malay, Mongolian, Navajo, Nepali, Hebrew and Turkish. I'm offended.

ArchivedUser

I voted "Other", as I am not complere for or against the idea. My opinion will be based on how loot boxes would be integrated into the game.

If they are in the cash shop, we don't even need to talk about it - BIG NO!

However, if loot boxes appear in form of daily login rewards or similar, I see why not reward loyal players that log into the game daily.

Also, I don't mean "one loot box a day". A loot box should only be awarded once a month after 20 total logins in one month or something like that.

ArchivedUser

Mooseknee10 I think 'loot box' must be broken down a bit - if it is random items and with a chance to be something for your character - NO. If random for your character - maybe. But personally, I would prefer NO loot boxes. I would rather go with the specific item you want that can have a range of stats eg. 6 - 10 to all attributes. I'd never forget my days with diablo 2 and runewords, hoping for a perfect roll. Never did get a perfect but damn I spent years trying and loving it.

When it comes to purchasing loot boxes for cosmetics - Let's take a cloak for example. I would much rather prefer a cloak that can roll fire or a black matter energy aura/visual effect that a standard cloak. However, these additional effect must be rare and they can 't roll always etc. some more rare that others. This would be much more exciting experience of buying without effecting the game and having an advantage. The effect must just be really worth it...

ArchivedUser

Yes. I personally love loot boxes, as long as it's not p2w items or tradeable items. 
Remember the cash shop is not content and it's optional, meaning you aren't being forced to participate in it. 

ArchivedUser

I am with the general consensus of No.

However, if they were in the cash-shop and contained a "Random Arrangement" of skins available in the game (not rare or higher) and players wanted to pay the cost of 3 skins to get a random assortment of 3 skins I do not see a problem. In this case loot boxes should generate at the players level.
If the loot boxes started containing special/rare skins then, I think, there would be an issue.

I don't know about rewards for logging in. IS seems to be against having any system that requires someone to feel obligated to log in. Being a gift as opposed to a quest they might not consider this as one of those types of systems. For a more casual player I guess there would be nothing stopping someone from logging in and then logging back out (w/o any game time) though.

ArchivedUser

I think they already covered most of what your question asked because of their anti-P2W stance.

However, if you're referring to in-game shop cosmetic loot boxes that might contain a few items, 1 of which is rare/epic/whatever, then I'm OK with that.  I think it's fun, and some people really enjoy being able to outfit their character. 

There is a risk, however, if the items from those boxes are anything other than bind on acquire. If the boxes or their contents can be sold, then people can P2W indirectly from what they get from those boxes.  The downside that people will be unlikely to buy boxes that might be 100% useless if what they get doesn't fit their style...

ArchivedUser

@Nlytnd "There is a risk, however, if the items from those boxes are anything other than bind on acquire. If the boxes or their contents can be sold, then people can P2W indirectly from what they get from those boxes.  The downside that people will be unlikely to buy boxes that might be 100% useless if what they get doesn't fit their style..."

ArchivedUser

Hard pass!

ArchivedUser

Short answer is No.  

Long answer is yes if they are in game reward loot boxes that can be purchased for in game currency (either gold, or faction rep tokens) no real money allowed.  They would need to be inexpensive, and contain a random assortment of items that are not of real game value.  No gear or anything, but maybe food, potions, fireworks, ect.  Nothing that's gear or appearance related.

Loot boxes that contain anything game needed / wanted / useful, have always just been a poison money trap.  I can't think of a single instance this wasn't the case.  If my option is RNG box in the cash shop, or nothing, i choose nothing  ...hard pass.

ArchivedUser

Boes83 said:

hmm loot boxes kinda or the pinnacle of RNG!

I do believe that i remember seeing a stream, with Steven throwing a tantrum, about him buying boxes worth up to 300 dollars. For an item that just a few weeks later was released in the cashshop of that particular game.

It was IMO both a testament towards not liking cashshops as well as the cringeworthiness towards RNG! Both i feel will be in a good shape when the game goes live, so no loot boxes (to RNG), and only cosmetic items in what ever form of cashshop      

This, was going to say pretty much the above, Steve has had a bad experience with loot boxes so would find it hard to believe he would introduce such into a game he was creating. 

ArchivedUser

But.. Not linked to the cash shop. Either through in game currency that's not linked to cash shop or found in world (same goes for keys if required)

Personally I love opening chests and boxes and things with a chance of something nice.. so I never actually find any of the nice items but that's beside the point

Also @UnknownSystemError Does that mean that items won't be giftable either? I was hoping I could occasionally spend some in game referral cash on one or more of my friends or referee's while playing to share the love a little.

I can see how that system could be open for abuse also though, just hadn't really thought about it before.

ArchivedUser

Could be could not.

Cosmetic shop lootbox is possible to get a change on a more expensive cosmetic to unlock from the shop or a change to get a less expensive you get the idea.

ArchivedUser

@XephitaAlso @UnknownSystemError Does that mean that items won't be giftable either? I was hoping I could occasionally spend some in game referral cash on one or more of my friends or referee's while playing to share the love a little.

I am just a forum scrub like most here. But from everything I have read or watched that is going to be a pretty solid no. Just like no in-game gambling to generate currency on things like arena matches, anytime you introduce the human player element into the system, someone is going to try and exploit it. They may have a system where you could buy stuff on the website and directly gift it to another account through them, but putting it in your hands, then allowing you to gift it on to someone else in game is definitely NOT going to be something allowed. They are going to an even farther extreme than most, skins once bought are one character use at a time only. So if you think you are going to have 5 characters all riding your runic steed skin, you are going to be disappointed. A skin will be used by a character and it will NOT be available to other characters unless removed and put back into the account storage. Another example is those running around with fire/ice skins, though it would be cool to have a whole theme thing going with all of your characters being flame avatars, it will be one of them at a time. I don't have the quote handy, but I am sure @lexmax or one of the others that have their quote rolodex handy can throw you a bone if you doubt the info.

Also this discussion could be moot well before the game ever launches. Though the ESRB in the US decided that loot boxes were not gambling per say (big shock<sarcasm> since their very existence depends on the industry they monitor), GB has decided to look at the issue, specifically with legal issues over gambling and their laws. If other locales start to classify them as gambling, publishers will stop the mechanic if it is going to cost them sales and possible legal action fines from other jurisdictions.

ArchivedUser

I have a feeling Lootboxes will not be a thing 
Cause of this
Steven Complaining About Lootboxes

Boes83 said:

I do believe that i remember seeing a stream, with Steven throwing a tantrum, about him buying boxes worth up to 300 dollars. For an item that just a few weeks later was released in the cashshop of that particular game.    

Aye he did (link above)

ArchivedUser

No, thanks. Never saw a system like this that I actually liked.
Opening such boxes usually results in disappointment anyway.

ArchivedUser

how I feel about loot boxes
 

ArchivedUser

If I wanted to gamble, I'd go to a casino.