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*Battle Resurrection*

*I know it's Pre-Alpha*
-This is likely to be fixed well before the final game.
(Just addressing it, so it's not overlooked)

>>This information is based of the Pax Demo from a "Viewers-Perspective"<<
                   (Meaning perhaps I'm a little ignorant on the specifics)

Currently there doesn't seem to be any restrictions on the Cleric(s)

*Upon watching a (Terrible-Group) attempt the Boss at the end of the Demo, I noticed it was nearly impossible to Wipe... Why? because every-time a player would die the Cleric would Resurrect them and in the game-play I watched this happened 3x during the same encounter while in Combat. (Which is likely to cause loads of balance issues with the game)

Couple ways to fix this...

*You can make the Resurrection-Spell cost a ridicules amount of Mana
(But you'd need to have nearly no Mana Regen)

*You could prevent Players being able to Revive in Combat.

*You could have a separate Spell for Battle-Resurrection
(Give it a Long-Cool down or some-type of Debuff)

Dungeons & Raids are going to be really dull if it's nearly impossible to wipe, because your Cleric can just revive any player who dies during the fight...

*Which means things are going to specifically need to target your Healer or Kill your Group several times over for you to wipe...

-Too be clear I'm not necessarily against in favor or against Battle-Resurrection
(But it needs to have Strict-Restriction if it's in the game)


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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017

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    Many of the mechanics shown at PAX are not indicative of the final product or even what will happen in testing. It was a dog-and-pony show to build hype purely from a marketing standpoint. So many other mechanics will come into play during actual testing. We know for example that death generates negative exp penalities. Die often enough without alleviating it, you start to get stat degredation. So the people calling for Dark Souls or raid bosses that wipe you over and over are just hurting themselves. I am for challenging content, but when there is going to be a time sink linked to say the tank not grabbing a boss or adds when he should, which causes my dps character to get roflstomped because he can't handle his job, expect things to go south quickly. Games that allow battle rezzing in combat always start out with good intentions, but then have to add limiting mechanics to stop it from becoming exactly what you said before. Good thing is we are 8 weeks out from testing start, lots of feedback will be given during alpha 0, even if those not under the NDA don't see it.
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    Arenas lasting 4 hours with clerics. xD

    I think a full arena team with clerics would be OP. Cause there damage also heals.

    Wonder if the game has interupts besides stuns/cc to stop a resurrectionor something if that spell isnt instant in the first place.
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    The arenas are objective based, so they wouldn't last that long. I am also quite sure Intrepid would also add a time limit if too long arena battles were the case.
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    Fleelix said:
    Arenas lasting 4 hours with clerics. xD

    I think a full arena team with clerics would be OP. Cause there damage also heals.

    Wonder if the game has interupts besides stuns/cc to stop a resurrectionor something if that spell isnt instant in the first place.
    Fair point. It's certainly going to be something to deal with in testing. They could work it around one's ability to drop out of combat, ie, if they're not being hit or hitting something for X amount of seconds they drop combat and then could use it. Therefore battlerez couldn't be used in combat. I think it needs to be there in my humble opinion but I also agree that it needs parameters.  Time will tell :)
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    The PAX experience was a condensed one to allow players to have a small sample of what Ashes may be like at launch. Everything in the PAX experience is but a shadow of what to expect.

    Cleric Skill -
    Endow Life : Target a friendly player and restore a large amount of life, if the player is dead, you revive them instead.

    In the PAX demos GM's were playing clerics (probably in order to res and heal to keep the demos within the time slots) -  so there were usually 2 Clerics. 

    We don't know specific details on the skill cooldown and cast time at the moment.

    I hope the skill will be on a reasonable cooldown when you use it as a heal so that the skill is being used when needed. I also hope the cast when used as a res is longer. Therefore the player has to make choices on whether to use it as a large heal or as a res.

    I look forward to seeing how the skills change through out the development :D

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    +Diura  I'd rather see a separate "Resurrection-spell"
    Not one that is combined into a main-healing cast...

    I don't think the "Resurrection-spell" should cost much or have a long cool-down
    (Because you should be able to revive half your team in the event of a close fight)

    I also don't think the "Resurrection-spell" should be able to be used in Combat-

    *However if you wanna have a separate "Battle-Resurrection Spell"
    With a long cool-down or some-type of other restriction, I'm cool with it.
    (I.e 1 Battle-rez per Cleric, Per-fight )

    -In Arena(s) current state I don't think it much matters if you have a Battle-rez, but I also think the Arena-system in it's current state needs to be "Trashed & Revamped"
    (And in my ideal Arena you would-not be able to Battle Rez)

    PS: A sneaky cleric who manages to slip out of combat inside Arena should be able to cast a normal Rez assuming the cast time is around 3seconds.
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    well if you want to come back from the dead all you need is a phylactery 
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017

    I went through the last stream for you which focused on the skills for Alpha 0.

    By the sounds of it the "resurrection skill" is indeed separate in Alpha 0 and has two progressions :)

    Resurrection ability : Upon use resurrect target - If they are dead
                                       :  Prevents death - if they are alive (a short buff)
    : Resurrection is not 100% 
    Resurrection is not 100% means that they do not return to life with 100% health and mana- they will be at a mitigated amount.

    First progression : Increases duration of death prevention buff
    Second progression : Resurrects target to 100% hit points and mana points 

    So as we can see skills are very much still going through development and testing :D

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    keep your holy magic I have my will to live and if that fails I have ways to come back ^^
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    I wonder if I can extract the souls of others on their death and kidnap them *thinks*
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    Ziltch said:
    I wonder if I can extract the souls of others on their death and kidnap them *thinks*
    ^ this why I keep my soul locked away 
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    Battle resurrection has much potential if applied correctly.
    Mobs in dungeons could be much stronger and include more difficult mechanics because good players will be abel to manage these anyway and revive the bad ones. Thus everyone can enjoy the fight less dependent of personal skill level but more dependent on combined group skill. I think thats important for games you play in a group.
    If the combat gets dull, the mobs are too weak/mechanics to easy/rezz skill to fast.

    A very good example for an successful implementation of battle rezz are some bosses in Tera imo.

    Battle rezz ->
    +encourages true multiplayer
    +more challenging but still casual friendly content

    -very dull combat if not optimized
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    Battle resurrection is OK, but only if it has a decent cool down.

    Content should remain challenging, and failure should happen often. Only if there is failure, one can feel joy upon success.

    If everyone is allowed to easily succeed then what's the point? Maybe some players would like that, I'm sure of that, but I for sure wouldn't.
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    Battle rezz with long cooldown is impossible to balance.
    Battle rezz is a very very powerful utility.
    You could either design the gameplay in a way that it requires battle rezz or so it doesn't.
    Makes no sense to let players occasionally wait for an hour because they wasted the battle rezz and would be unable to clear the next part without it.
    And if it doesn't require the battle rezz and you still have it ready, you got the easy content you didn't want.

    The game has to go full battle rezz or no battle rezz to enable fluid gameplay and challenge simultaneously.
    With battle rezz its more fast paced and group dependent, without its slower paced and single player dependent.
    Doesn't mean games without battle rezz couldn't be fast etc, but the decision between battle rezz yes/no leans towards these directions.
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    @Uao fixed timers aren't the only way of implementing CD.

    You could for example let player use battle res once per encounter. Once he uses it, it's not usable anymore until player gets out of combat, at which point it resets and its usable again for next encounter.
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    I liked healers with stealth in Archeage, they keep stealth cause they cannot res in combat and when enemies has left they started to res deads. I guess they wont be abble to do that but could be cool.
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    Yea that'd be way better. When i initialy read your text, i had a picture of up to one hour cooldowns like many other games have in my head.

    Would even somehow increase the team play aspect if your own rezz skill resets after you got revived by someone. I mean, when you die your basicaly out of combat.. :D 

    For me the most important part is to have long cast times for battle rezz. 
    So it requires better teamwork between the living players to compensate the previous mistakes and reward the dead with a new chance.
    Instant battle rezz is just a boring spell.
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    I just had a new idea: When creating a group, you have 1 minute to assign a rezz master.
    That person would gain one charge for his rezz skill.
    If he revives someone, that title would get passed to the resurected person.
    If he gets interrupted or stops casting himself, the rezz gets a 30 second cooldown until he could try again.
    The rezz master couldnt be changed through UI.
    Disbanding the group would cause a ~5min cooldown for everyone.

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