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(inventory and equipment system)
ArchivedUser
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Hi my name is KC. I played my first MMORPG 20 years ago when i was 10: Ultimate Online. And had been in love with MMORPG ever since. I played many more different types of MMO (of eastern and western orgin) thereafterr for many years after. Personally I saw this genre undertook huge changes through the years. I simply want to share some insight with the developer of this game. Because i was touched by an interview of Intrepid Studio and i wanted my opinion to be a constructive part of the game's creation.
In this post i will only address the issue of ITEMS and EQUIPMENT in game and how it affect the interactivities of players and its impact to the MMORPG world. ( I will try to get straight to point and keep it short)
ISSUES:
1. Items not able to drop in world enviornment: Back in the old days of MMO (example: UO or Asheron's Call) items are dropable and moveable. This feature is what allows game such as Elder Scroll Series so be so in depth with their enviornment. It is very simple concept, when you drop something on the ground or on the table and it disappeared, you are feeling seperated from the world that you play in. Item aquired with time and effort means so little to your surrounding. It also remove a lot of possibility in the core game mechanics. The problem with this function is that player could spam items drop. But this is counterable with a disappearance timer or some active GM who could perform manual clean up or punish badly behaved players.
2. Most items are junk: Lets face it, i would say something like 90% of the items in MMORPG are sold as junk items for in game currency or melted down for material. Here is a story: You killed a anger looking orc near the end of a dungeon, he droped a spear, you looted the spear, it is a common items as you look at its stats, the numbers are lower than the epic axe that you currently have equipped. 10 seconds later, you forgot you have ever picked up this new found spear, and the moment you return to town, you will sell it to the nearest vendor. This interaction with item is repreated over and over in different forms throughout the history of video game. So let me break down the problem with this issue.
I. Items drop too frequently ( discovery of items become un-meaningful, Need to reduce over all item drop Frequency).
II. equipment display their name and stats very clearly for all player to see, there is no need for experiment or exploration of equipment choice, and your choice of equipment is judged easily by other players. ( equipment are not interesting: another example, Let say In real life, you see a knife in your friend's kitchen, do you know exactly how sharp it is? You shouldn't, not unless you are a knife expert, or have at least cut a few things with it.
The big issue in equipment system for most MMO is that, equipment are just numbers. Over time, the pursue of items becomes the pursue of numbers. if you pick up a sword, and you are not satisfy with the numbers displayed on it you simply trash it or melt it down. And if the numbers suit you, you will equip it. MMORPG for many players ultimately becomes this cycle in prusues of better numbers, over and over, until they finally reach something call the "META. The META always restrict creativity and diversity in players choice and in long term speaking it is unhealthy for a MMORPG. The META existed for several reason but one major factor is becuase the game has slowly turned into a formular, formular that begins with easily calculable numbers .
One way to counter this META driven tradition and to make items a more interesting object is that, a player needs to use the item in order for it to reveal more of its proporties for that player. So for example in game, you pick up a wield looking shield in a chest from a cave, you shouldn't know right away that you are going to trash that shield without ever trying it on unless you are an expert in shield making or a veteran of shield user, as a normal player, you should need to equip it and block with it. Then look at your health as you block to judge its effectivness, or there is a system in game that will allow its stats and secret to eventrally be revealed as you use it more and more often. which in the end, you might decide to trash your old shield instead. The removal of an equipment's special name can also aid to get rid of WIKI being the ultimate guide for every secret in game)
III. Item are seperated in rarity s: common, uncommon, rare: epic, lengendary, divine, etc.. ( Sure a player should feel good about him/herself for finding a great weapon that is also rare. However, such interputation of feelings should be left to the player himself, he should be the judge of his own equipment. So I found a really great bow on a skeleten, it is highly effective in combat for me. But i dont want to use it because it is only an uncommon item. My Epic crossbow perviously looks so much better on me even tho it is inferior in combat. So i rather use my Epic crossbow, simply because it is an epic item, i generally feel better with an epic weapon equiped.
A player should be able to feel good about his own choice in equipment rather than a game designer telling him how he should feel about his own equipment. Whether an item is rare or not is solely base on supply and demand and to some degree in each player's sentiment towards it. An item that is rare for me may not be so for someone whos level is thirty above me, perhaps for him it is garbage because he has tons of it and they never get used.
So as a player, am i to believe an item is rare because it is labled as is?, or because it is a junk item simply because i am told it is junk? Item rarity almost never serve as the sole benefactor of an item's effectivness and quality in any video game. So when all things considered, is this labal really needed in Ashes of Creation? Or have we, as player, got too lazy to figure out our own inventory that we left it to the developer to decide for us?
I would write more but my time is up for today. Perhaps i shall write more later!
Thank you so much for reading what i wanted to share. I hope you guys can make a great game. Many future players and I are excited!
BEST!
In this post i will only address the issue of ITEMS and EQUIPMENT in game and how it affect the interactivities of players and its impact to the MMORPG world. ( I will try to get straight to point and keep it short)
ISSUES:
1. Items not able to drop in world enviornment: Back in the old days of MMO (example: UO or Asheron's Call) items are dropable and moveable. This feature is what allows game such as Elder Scroll Series so be so in depth with their enviornment. It is very simple concept, when you drop something on the ground or on the table and it disappeared, you are feeling seperated from the world that you play in. Item aquired with time and effort means so little to your surrounding. It also remove a lot of possibility in the core game mechanics. The problem with this function is that player could spam items drop. But this is counterable with a disappearance timer or some active GM who could perform manual clean up or punish badly behaved players.
2. Most items are junk: Lets face it, i would say something like 90% of the items in MMORPG are sold as junk items for in game currency or melted down for material. Here is a story: You killed a anger looking orc near the end of a dungeon, he droped a spear, you looted the spear, it is a common items as you look at its stats, the numbers are lower than the epic axe that you currently have equipped. 10 seconds later, you forgot you have ever picked up this new found spear, and the moment you return to town, you will sell it to the nearest vendor. This interaction with item is repreated over and over in different forms throughout the history of video game. So let me break down the problem with this issue.
I. Items drop too frequently ( discovery of items become un-meaningful, Need to reduce over all item drop Frequency).
II. equipment display their name and stats very clearly for all player to see, there is no need for experiment or exploration of equipment choice, and your choice of equipment is judged easily by other players. ( equipment are not interesting: another example, Let say In real life, you see a knife in your friend's kitchen, do you know exactly how sharp it is? You shouldn't, not unless you are a knife expert, or have at least cut a few things with it.
The big issue in equipment system for most MMO is that, equipment are just numbers. Over time, the pursue of items becomes the pursue of numbers. if you pick up a sword, and you are not satisfy with the numbers displayed on it you simply trash it or melt it down. And if the numbers suit you, you will equip it. MMORPG for many players ultimately becomes this cycle in prusues of better numbers, over and over, until they finally reach something call the "META. The META always restrict creativity and diversity in players choice and in long term speaking it is unhealthy for a MMORPG. The META existed for several reason but one major factor is becuase the game has slowly turned into a formular, formular that begins with easily calculable numbers .
One way to counter this META driven tradition and to make items a more interesting object is that, a player needs to use the item in order for it to reveal more of its proporties for that player. So for example in game, you pick up a wield looking shield in a chest from a cave, you shouldn't know right away that you are going to trash that shield without ever trying it on unless you are an expert in shield making or a veteran of shield user, as a normal player, you should need to equip it and block with it. Then look at your health as you block to judge its effectivness, or there is a system in game that will allow its stats and secret to eventrally be revealed as you use it more and more often. which in the end, you might decide to trash your old shield instead. The removal of an equipment's special name can also aid to get rid of WIKI being the ultimate guide for every secret in game)
III. Item are seperated in rarity s: common, uncommon, rare: epic, lengendary, divine, etc.. ( Sure a player should feel good about him/herself for finding a great weapon that is also rare. However, such interputation of feelings should be left to the player himself, he should be the judge of his own equipment. So I found a really great bow on a skeleten, it is highly effective in combat for me. But i dont want to use it because it is only an uncommon item. My Epic crossbow perviously looks so much better on me even tho it is inferior in combat. So i rather use my Epic crossbow, simply because it is an epic item, i generally feel better with an epic weapon equiped.
A player should be able to feel good about his own choice in equipment rather than a game designer telling him how he should feel about his own equipment. Whether an item is rare or not is solely base on supply and demand and to some degree in each player's sentiment towards it. An item that is rare for me may not be so for someone whos level is thirty above me, perhaps for him it is garbage because he has tons of it and they never get used.
So as a player, am i to believe an item is rare because it is labled as is?, or because it is a junk item simply because i am told it is junk? Item rarity almost never serve as the sole benefactor of an item's effectivness and quality in any video game. So when all things considered, is this labal really needed in Ashes of Creation? Or have we, as player, got too lazy to figure out our own inventory that we left it to the developer to decide for us?
I would write more but my time is up for today. Perhaps i shall write more later!
Thank you so much for reading what i wanted to share. I hope you guys can make a great game. Many future players and I are excited!
BEST!
0
Comments
Itemstats cann be served in another way. For example you found a shield. Only wenn you equit it you will know that you need 30 Strenght to equip it. Only when you use if for the first time another stat opens you find out that it blocks 30 damage. Only when you are close to death and and a strange buff gives you a +10 to XP Regeneration you find out that your shield has this spell once in a hour.
Or the stats from some rare things must be unvealed by a wisard from the royal akademy of magic.
You said you weren't a fan of items becoming numbers, but then you said you didn't want rarity to affect your decision if the numbers are better on the less rare bow. Numbers kind of have to exist in gear in an MMO. I think Intrepid's idea of making items degrade is a good way to remove some of the number hunting that goes on in the genre.
Very good points made!
@Mooseknee10
They just need to write a script to only display up to x items on the ground at a time - problem solved.
Obviously there have to be numbers, but his point was about not revealing the numbers to players immediately. Instead let players guess what item might be better or maybe reveal rough numbers at some point in a way @Maxgraves rephrased it in more detail.
Degrading items however dont affect numberhunting at all, its just a mechanic to keep economics+constant grind alive and players bussy.
There are these kind of scripts in order to show players in your area in some games.
And what can i say, it works.
It would more likely be optional depending on your graphics card if you want to display 30 50 100 or even more objects.. 5 is very unlikely because displaying objects without animation isnt THAT demanding.
How these objects look and how you distinguish between various items is a simple design question, could be actualy real looking objects or just names with an standard object type appearance. As long as each object doesnt have insane poly count its all good.
So you would see atleast the ~+30 items on the table that are the closest to you and maybe even see another 100 further away with extra low resolution.
I doubt we need high resolution for these items anyway, just having that feature alone would be very immersive imo.
If you're talking from a design standpoint, Jeffrey said at some point that the possibility of having item drops in game was very unlikely (at least on launch). Non-animated assets aren't super taxing, but the ability to move around those assets on a large scale can be. Would it still be immersive to have items drop like Diablo? Because that is more inanimate than what OP was suggesting by referencing the ES series. In my opinion, having generic art assets that sit on the ground with names over them isn't immersive.
This. This NEEDS to be in Ashes, this is too great of an idea. GOOD JOB, @KCS
@Maxgraves touched on it in his comment, but NO items should have a requirement. Items grow with us, remember? The stats are cumulative to our levels. So, wouldn't it be great for a person who has used a sword and shield as his weaponry to be able to identify the worth of a sword and sheild, while other players only see blank? The more experience you get with an item should determine your ability to see its value. I think you guys missed how good of an idea this is... Like @KCS said, "You wouldn't know how sharp a knife was unless you were a knife expert." So, in the same way, a bow user should have NO idea how strong a staff is... he's never used one before!
The idea here worth reiteratting is that the devs should NOT, SHOULD NOT, decide what the value of an item is to us. Epic or higher tiered items should not offer a HUGE spike in number value... they should offer effects like regeneration, or speed, or lifesteal... does it make sense to have a Legendary item called, "Greatsword of the Darknight" but all it has is a cool pattern and a 50% increase in attack compared to regular greatswords? CMON. Let it give you armor, or the ability to summon something! And let only a greatsword user be able to see it's worth, not a mage who ended up getting it because there was no tank class in the party, so the item was given randomly.. (happens often)